Prime Frame Vs Non Prime Frame Feedback

[WhiteCopain]

Awhile back on a stream, it was said that the Prime Warframes were the "original" versions of Warframes, where as the ones we use normally are the Tenno versions, made more for the Tenno's use over their original version. Neither frame was "better", just different because of what they were made for.

 

Following this, for a long time, prime Warframes had no difference, until the recent Rhino Prime, in which he moves a bit faster then Rhino. The disadvantage being a polarity slot (negated really do to Forma customization). This is not something I have a problem with. I can fully agree with this design choice, a little difference between prime and normal IS a good idea, you can basically double the amount of Warframes in the game by having little differences.

 

HOWEVER, I do not think that having the prime frames be straight up better is the right course. As stated by the Dev in the stream, one isn't really better then the other, they're versions made for different things. Rather then have Rhino Prime just have an advantage, give it a trade off. Make it have a bit less armor or shields to compensate for the higher move speed. The same could be said for all the prime/non prime versions. Maybe make Frost Prime have higher power efficiency, but less power duration (or armor, or whatever). Maybe Excalibur Prime has higher power damage but less power max gains?

 

These differences bring back little details for players to customize how they want to play a frame, without bringing back the feeling of pay to win that helmets had (relying on a random mission to give a random reward that will randomly be a hat), since Primes are typically fairly easy to farm and technically not any more expensive thanks to prime trading (You can often end up getting the primes for less plat if you wanted).

 

I also suggest keeping these little details low. Rhino Prime is just a tad bit faster then normal Rhino, and I don't think it should change from being a little one. A huge issue with the old helms is that they were flat out better at certain points. Rhino's vanguard helmet provides speed that was more then worth the trivial trade off of strength.

 

 

 

Tl;dr  Primes being different then non primes is a great idea, but just flat out better is not the best way to go about it. Make little differences, trade offs.

[sp4rtan148]

I also want the appearance on the primes to change as well, prime frames like mag, ember, and even rhino had looks depending on their power, like mag having hovering bits, ember having fire on her head, and rhino being bulkier, I think excalibur and frost should be changed because nothing besides the helmet and tiny little gold parts are added.

[LukeAura]

I like this idea. A little more side customization would be interesting instead of making Primes Straight superior.
But I think each tradeoff would have to be fitting to the frame as well as its purpose and design.

you can't really reduce Rhino Prime's shields/armor/health because Rhino is technically a 'tank'. Any deviation from there must keep with the idea of tankiness. 
If his Speed has increased, then to keep him feeling a little sluggish he would need a proportional drop in stamina. He can't lose shields or health, that would conflict with the idea of a Rhino.

Frost is a defensive/offensive caster. So his prime version could become just a little bit of a focus towards one or the other. A reduction in duration for an increase in efficiency makes him more offensive based and would suit him well.
 

[Cpl_Facehugger]

HOWEVER, I do not think that having the prime frames be straight up better is the right course.

I disagree heavily.

From a lore standpoint, orokin technology is meant to be the best. If Warframe was a fantasy setting, orokin technology would be the lost and ancient magicks of Atlantis. In other words, orokin tech is pretty awesome stuff and having the only difference being aesthetics, a single polarity (that can be changed with a forma) if that, and the ability to tap void traps for energy is pretty lame for something supposed to be the ancient god-technology of the orokin.

It's also pretty incongruent with prime weapons, which are generally superior to the cheap knockoffs that the Tenno manufacture. (ie Ankyros Prime being better in literally every way.)

From a gameplay standpoint, prime frames are generally much more difficult to get. Ergo, they *should* be better in a fundamental respect. Players need a sense of progression to keep playing. As it stands, prime warframes are little more than shiny reskins and certainly aren't actually worth the effort of getting them unless you're a collector.

Like, Rhino? You've just gotta farm Jackal awhile, with Jackal being a low level boss. Rhino Prime? You have to farm keys then run those keys, with the keys required generally being T2 and T3 so as to require more skills and mods.

Granted the trading mechanism somewhat undermines this, but, eh, not being able to trade prime parts is worse.

Fundamentally, the issue with tradeoffs is that the more tradeoffs you have, the harder the whole game is to balance since you're not just comparing Rhino Prime and Rhino, you have to compare those two frames to all other frame.s So making primes on their own separate tier lets you balance them only with other primes, meaning you don't have to balance so much at once.

Edited March 17, 2014 by Cpl_Facehugger

[notionphil]

I disagree heavily.

From a lore standpoint, orokin technology is meant to be the best.

 

A McLaren F1 is "better" than a Smart car (both made by mercedes) but guess which one gets better gas mileage.

 

Similarly, I'd like to see Primes be like High Performance supercars. Every Prime gets bonus stats and maybe even one innate perk. However all non-prime frames get 0.25 innate energy/HP regen.

 

Why? Because our Tenno frames are made for efficiency. Like a Prius, compared with a Ferarri.

[WhiteCopain]

I disagree heavily.

From a lore standpoint, orokin technology is meant to be the best.

Did you not read what I said or watch many dev streams? Because they've said before that orokin tech was just different then Tenno, not better. The Tenno versions are supposed to be more suited to their needs, modified versions of the orokin versions. IE not worse, but different.

 

 

Also I'm not sure you can argue balance when you're saying that balance shouldn't exist and the prime versions should just be better... or when we have Nova casting her ult to clear an entire room and Excalibur using his ult to get every spear stuck in on a Wall or a Lancer's shield.

 

 

EDIT: ...also Prime frames are "harder", I suppose that's a decent argument, but Rhino is one of the most popular frames (competing with Nova for most popular) and it's one of the most easy to get, in comparison to Excalibur who's one of the last planets. I don't think difficulty to get factors into jack.

Edited March 17, 2014 by WhiteCopain