A Different Form Of Prime Access: Prime Upgrade

[Ishteen]

No doubt this has been covered before, but I figured I'd offer my 2¢ on the subject without having to Nekros necro an old thread.

 

So, ladies and gentlemen, prepare for a giant WOL O TXT.

 

What is the (potential) problem? Right now, there are two types of Tenno equipment: the basic stuff you buy off the market, and the Prime versions that need to be found in the Void. One of the interesting - and disheartening - things I've discovered about the latter is that it doesn't require the base equivalent as a blueprint component. This makes sense from a canonical viewpoint; since (most of) the Tenno don't have buckets of forma and high-quality resources to forge their gear, they've had to make do with more inferior materials. From a gameplay perspective, however, this introduces a few issues:

• Gear attachment. Let's assume today was a day before Rhino Prime became a thing (or was even teased). Now, you love your base Rhino. Spamming that 2 all day has saved your hide on more than one occasion, and you're more than happy to lock horns with baddies all day long by smashing into them with Rhino Charge. Your affection has manifested accordingly, and you've shoved a precious reactor and some forma onto your Rhino to make it yours. Then - suddenly - DE reveals and releases the Rhino Prime. You love the bling, and not even that weirdly-shaped helmet will put you off, but you're torn: Do I try to farm for the Rhino Prime now? But I've slotted my Rhino with a reactor and forma already...what about those? I haven't been able to catch any more forma or reactor alerts and I don't know if I can drop cash on an access package...not to mention all that time spent pimping out my Rhino! Should I just bite the bullet and let it rot in my arsenal?
   
• Future-proofing. This is very similar to the issue above, although I reckon it affects the savvier players who are in for the long haul. I don't think it's wrong to assume that eventually, DE will release the Prime variations for most (or all) Tenno equipment. Of course, with the game being in the state it's in, that may not happen for quite some time - and as such, we've got a lot of equipment lying around that might one day be Primed. This isn't a huge issue with warframes, as those mostly feature cosmetic changes, but Prime weapons tend to be much improved over their less sparkly counterparts. Speaking from personal experience, I have a Vectis that I'd love to potato, but I'm concerned that the Vectis Prime might one day crop up and render it obsolete. Because of this, I am effectively nerfing myself - albeit patiently - in an effort to preserve the only catalyst I really have.
   
• Prayin' to RNJesus. Yep, this was going to come up eventually - I just had to roll the dice a couple times before I got it. Everyone knows about the drop table dilution in the Void, and there are plenty of horror stories floating around the forums about hours - days and weeks, even - spent grinding for a part that simply refuses to show up. Yes, Prime trading alleviates this somewhat, but prices can at times be a little bit skewed or extravagant (lookin' at you, Rhino Prime Chassis). For the truly unfortunate - and they exist, no doubt about it - the Prime stuff they want straight up turns into the bane of their existence.

These are a few of the things plaguing the Prime system right now. There must be a more elegant solution for all of this - or, at least, a way out.

 

Okay, I'm listening. Whatcha got? "Prime Upgrading." (It's even in the title!) Facetiousness aside, a "Prime Upgrade" takes the form of blueprint that is acquired through clan research. Before you guys skewer me on an Orthos, though, I'll say that a separate lab should not be necessary for these blueprints - they should be found in the Tenno or Orokin Lab, and require one base item blueprint and one Prime equivalent blueprint as materials. No Fang Prime Blades, no Ankyros Prime Gauntlets, no Chassis or Systems or Helmets (unless you want to roll dice...do you?). For example...

 

Boltor Prime Research

1x Boltor Blueprint

1x Boltor Prime Blueprint

20000 Credits

 

Ember Prime Research

1x Ember Blueprint

1x Ember Prime Blueprint

50000 Credits

 

...Something like that.

 

Actually constructing this blueprint will need one rank 30 catalyzed base weapon or one rank 30 supercharged base warframe. (Basically that means you should have potatoes shoved into them already, to prove your love and devotion to their cause.) They will also need some quantities of "Orokin-esque" resources, like Morphics, Oxium (but not 600 of it, because this ain't Zephyr), Gallium, Rubedo, Orokin Cells and possibly Forma. The end result is an unranked Prime equip that still has a potato slotted into it, as if the catalyst or reactor "carried over". If we continue using the above as examples, it might turn out like this...

 

Boltor Prime Upgrade

5x Gallium

10x Morphics

1000x Rubedo

4x Orokin Cell

1x Forma

1x Boltor

30000 Credits

 

Ember Prime Upgrade

5x Oxium

10x Gallium

10x Morphics

2000x Rubedo

2x Orokin Cell

1x Forma

1x Ember

40000 Credits

 

...So on and so forth. Fiddle around with the numbers as you will; I just pulled some out of a hat. The idea is that while upgrading a base weapon or frame to Prime status should be pricey, it shouldn't be outrageous - and definitely not as reliant on RNG as just building the Prime version from parts.

 

I also want to emphasize that Prime Upgrading won't replace all the blueprints and whatnot that already drop from the Void. Players who don't have a base Frost but would like to toy with a Frost Prime still have the option of running T1/2/3 whatever to hunt for his parts; the same goes for Prime weapons.

 

My idea also throws a wrench at players who want the Glaive Prime, but aren't fortunate enough to find the base Glaive blueprint through the login raffle or an alert. This could be alleviated simply by shoving those blueprints into the Market, but I'm sure DE has a reason for excluding them to begin with (although I'd love to know what that reason is).

 

If we want to take things one step further, DE could host a "Prime Upgrade" sale alongside Prime Access, featuring Prime upgrade blueprints for the newest additions to the Prime family plus any other goodies they'd like to drop in. Such a package would preferably cost less cash than the actual Access packs, but that's where my input ends.

 

Well, I'm just about wrapping this up now; the one last thing I will note is that any polarization changes you've made in the base item should be reflected in the Prime product. I don't know how that works, though, or if it's even possible; I leave it to DE to ponder over, assuming, of course, they actually read this post (it is kind of long).

 

So there you go; my 2¢. Thoughts?

Edited April 7, 2014 by Ishteen

[GraalOhOtonami]

Already been discussed when Frost Prime was released.

[Ishteen]

Already been discussed when Frost Prime was released.

 

What were the results of that discussion? I recently joined - long after Frost Prime came out - and a quick glance through the forum search is proving a little daunting.

[(PSN)Brako_El_Mostro]

I dont see the deal i mean every frame sooner or later are going to have a prime counterpart whether it happens next week or next year people are going to complain because they either put formas or a reactor on it we all know we do it at our own risks

[GraalOhOtonami]

If I remember rightly (no citation here, it's as scary for me as it is for you), it was scrapped as the current foundry system doesn't allow things to be made ready with forma's and reactors.

 

Plus, if you've forma'd it, what happens to your polarity if it is in place of the new one? :p

[gamefreak9149]

I had 6 foma on my normal rhino, dont regret to upgrading to rhino prime. I mean i have a wind up key on my back that makes me run faster, only .1 faster but ill take it. Now i had one to replace the aura slot, 1 power slot since i seldom ever wanted to bring all of his powers, and the others are kinda easy to figure out where I used those. I don't mind really since foma are like candy from doing all those void runs. yes they take forever to make since you can only build one at a time but what else can we do besides remind DE to let use make more then one at a time.

[BrotherIcarus]

I dont see the deal i mean every frame sooner or later are going to have a prime counterpart whether it happens next week or next year people are going to complain because they either put formas or a reactor on it we all know we do it at our own risks

Actually not every frame will be primed.

[Ishteen]

If I remember rightly (no citation here, it's as scary for me as it is for you), it was scrapped as the current foundry system doesn't allow things to be made ready with forma's and reactors.

 

Plus, if you've forma'd it, what happens to your polarity if it is in place of the new one? :p

 

Ah, bummer. Could some form of this still be implemented, though? At least it'd save on equipment slots.

 

Also, yes, on the Steam forums there are people who suggested something similar and still want to keep their polarizations - but it sounds like a tough problem to tackle, and one that I don't have enough information to really comment on.

[RoninJed]

Actually not every frame will be primed.

Really?.....I wonder why?.....and when will DE stop making prime frames?

[GraalOhOtonami]

Really?.....I wonder why?.....and when will DE stop making prime frames?

I don't think Zephyr ever had an Orokin variant, thus it'd not be primed.

[Tsoe]

Really?.....I wonder why?.....and when will DE stop making prime frames?

some frame like Necro or Valkyr cant  cant be primed for Lore wise

 

Also Necro is suposed to be from orochin era allready and Valkyr is a new model

Edited March 28, 2014 by Tsoe

[BrotherIcarus]

Really?.....I wonder why?.....and when will DE stop making prime frames?

I think only the first generation will be primed but that is my speculation but DE have said they do not intend to make a prime variant of everything.

 

As for the reason well it makes no sense lore wise as primes are the Orokin versions of the frame but Valkyr was not around during the time of the orokins (It could be argued that a none tortured version of her could exist) But you never know we may get Valkyr Vandal.

 

An then you have Zephyr who has only recently (Lore wise been made)

Edited March 28, 2014 by BrotherIcarus

[RoninJed]

I think only the first generation will be primed but that is my speculation but DE have said they do not intend to make a prime variant of everything.

 

As for the reason well it makes no sense lore wise as primes are the Orokin versions of the frame but Valkyr was not around during the time of the orokins (It could be argued that a none tortured version of her could exist) But you never know we may get Valkyr Vandal.

 

An then you have Zephyr who has only recently (Lore wise been made)

Dang....Nekros is my favorite frame.......wonder if they will ever have a different version of him?

[Hawner]

If I remember rightly (no citation here, it's as scary for me as it is for you), it was scrapped as the current foundry system doesn't allow things to be made ready with forma's and reactors.

 

Plus, if you've forma'd it, what happens to your polarity if it is in place of the new one? :p

 

That problem can be easily solved. The Primed BP you make with this system can be a variation that makes the game "analize" the frame/weapon used to build the Primed version. If the game detects a potato and 3 formas, with the frame/weapon you will receive the potato and, when equipped with it the first time, you choose the 3 polarities you want to change.

 

I've been discussing this same topic with my friends, and we all agree with the OP. This would help both the players and DE. If the Prime parts were a little (not much) easier to find but you had to use a rank 30 original version to build it (Maybe even potatoed, to increase the difficulty), the players will see themselves having actually play with the original frames/weapons, testing them, learning to use them, before getting the "Goldy" version. Wiith this, players actually use more than one or two Frames/weapons. If they want to have all the Primes, they will have either to sell old ones or to buy slots to keep them; to rank up fast the originals they will buy Affinity boosters, the potatoes would be sold like crazy when a new frame/weapons is released (Ok, this one happens now, actually...).

 

I like this idea, and that would make the game fair to everybody.

[Ishteen]

I dont see the deal i mean every frame sooner or later are going to have a prime counterpart whether it happens next week or next year people are going to complain because they either put formas or a reactor on it we all know we do it at our own risks

 

I've explained in my post why it could potentially be a big deal (or in this case, a deal-breaker). You might not see an issue with it, but others will - and in fact they have, on the Steam forums, and with the peeps I know on my in-game buddy list. Players should not be punished for putting time and resources into their gear in this game. The current Prime system, with its completely separate equipment builds, actually does this - unless you've preemptively purchased equipment slots, you're going to have to mulch that old base Vectis to eventually make room for the Vectis Prime. It's this lack of choice that grates on other players.

 

Also thank you, Hawner, finally a topical response!

[ZayTM]

A fantastic idea, it really is, but sadly I don't see DE implementing it. It would require a LOT of work on their part (such as reconfiguring how the foundry works). That being said, I think the playerbase would be universally happy should this be implemented.

 

+1 for prime ugrade

[Hawner]

A fantastic idea, it really is, but sadly I don't see DE implementing it. It would require a LOT of work on their part (such as reconfiguring how the foundry works). 

 

 

I don't see so much of a problem there. They don't need to change nothing in the foundry, only to add a series of new recipes and check the variables formas and potatoes would add to the item used (I fool around with RPG Maker, and this is not hard to do)

[ZayTM]

I don't see so much of a problem there. They don't need to change nothing in the foundry, only to add a series of new recipes and check the variables formas and potatoes would add to the item used (I fool around with RPG Maker, and this is not hard to do)

 

Apparently there's no way for the foundry to add potatos to the items (stated earlier in the thread). A soulution that I personally see would be scripting it so that, while it gives you a Prime version without a potato (since it is impossible to have it already installed in the current coding framework of the foundry), it could just give you a potato upon successful completion.

 

As far as checking for the forma/potato variables, that only works if forma polarities/amounts and the potato boolean are stored as public variables within the weapon object itself and it really depends on how the objects are coded entirely. I really don't mean to sandbag you, but I actually code games from scratch from time to time (nothing TOO complicated). The big point I'm trying to get across is that complexity/difficulty is HUGELY dependant on the engine being used and the existing framework of the code. RPG maker is very very modular to make simple edits like this a breeze, but Warframe is far larger and has a lot more moving parts. It may be simple to implement but is most likely not.

 

Honestly, there's no way for us to really know unless we have experience with the Evolution Engine's coding specifically, and I know I don't.

[Hawner]

I really don't mean to sandbag you

 

Hey, we are in a forum, debating this things is not "sandbagging", it's normal. I don't get offended as long as we both respect each other, and you are. ^^

 

I said in my first post here about giving a potato when the frame/weapon is made so you can put it in again. So we are on the same page here.

 

About the polarities, when you forma your frame/weapon and try to insert mods you can see a star for each forma you used on it. The game only needs to check how many stars there are. You would only need to, when trying to add mods the first time to that frame/weapon, choose what polarities you want and where. I don't know, it's my point of view.

 

yeah, I get your point about the difficulty depending on the engine. I guess it's up to them to try it or not, if they are reading this.

[Ishteen]

 

Briefly resurrecting this thread. With the addition of the new Orokin Lab, is there a potentially higher chance that some form of Priming base gear can make it into the game?

 

Crossing fingers for a dev response, although I'm not holding my breath.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Really?.....I wonder why?.....and when will DE stop making prime frames?

The only frame we know for "certain" (because they could always retcon) from the lore won't be primed is Nova.  Even Valkyr could theoretically get one.  It would just look like she did before Alad dissected her, so no random metal bars sticking out of her.

 

As for Volt/Valkyr/Banshee: we'll see.  We don't know how DE plans to handle that lab yet.  I personally love Volt and really want to see a Volt prime, so I'm hoping they can still get them.