I Believe Melee 2.0 Will Make Ash More Desirable.

[8bit_Ghost]

Right now Ash gets a lot of flak. And for some good reasons. His powers are great on solo but in a team, there will be a power that will always overshadow his. His base stats are impressive but he can get overshadowed pretty easily.

I myself like to use my Ash, but not in a team. But I think Melee 2.0 will solve all of that and help him become the quickest route to kicking butt with your melee attacks.

It's a bit of a large claim but my reasoning is simple: Teleport.

Teleport is exactly what it says it is: poofs you right up next to an enemy, friend, or defense target that is in your crosshairs. It has decent range and can be used to jump around the field with ease. At the moment, though, the game inadvertently punishes you for getting too close to many foes. Teleporting to an enemy will probably get you hurt bad. So it doesn't always work the way you want it to.

However, I think Melee 2.0 will make it a reward to be close to enemies if it works well. Teleporting to an enemy bridges the gap faster than running straight up to them does (and running up to an enemy usually get you shot with a bunch of bullets first). Some might just use Loki or Rhino and make themselves invulnerable/untargetable and rush up to them (and with Loki do 4x damage). Ash has a power that makes him untargetable as well, but the duration isn't as long as Loki's. But with Melee 2.0, getting close to enemies will be the priority, which makes Ash both supportive and powerful. Ash will now become a moving decoy capable of taking a lot of damage, as well as dealing a lot. Smoke Screen when used in conjunction with Teleport and Melee 2.0 will make Ash a melee master. Keep him equipped with Locust helm and a maxed streamline and you can pull off this power combo easily:

-Teleport to group of enemies, drawing fire from friends and defense target to yourself.

-Use Smoke Screen, stunning all enemies around you, keeping them off guard long enough for other players to take them out without worry of them regaining focus too soon.

-Melee 2.0 powers in conjunction with Smoke Screen stealth bonus will take out enemies around you fast and effectively.

-Profit.

Now, This power combo costs 60 energy each time without maxed Streamline, but with that and Locust helm you can pull off a pretty affordable 47 energy.

Now, technically Loki can do basically all the same stuff too. Using Decoy in a group of enemies first, switch teleporting, and then using invisibility (or before, can be used at any point in the sequence really), then he can distract enemies, get close to them, and then deal stealth damage too. However, this is 3 steps, and costs 100 energy without Essence Helm and Streamline (70 with max streamline and 55 with Essence added). Granted, Loki can just run up invisible and avoid any damage and still deal a lot of damage too, but that takes away one major bonus: the distraction. Nothing is being done to distract these enemies from attacking your team or a defense target. Ash is all about the element of surprise, and this benefit is what makes it so useful.

Also, with the addition of stances, Ash can attack faster if using a weapon with a speed stance equipped (making his lesser invisibility duration manageable) which does more stunlocking (saving your team more) and the lesser damage dealt with speed attacks is made up for using stealth bonuses. The combo can turn out to be quite deadly.

So, that's pretty much all I have to say on it. Maybe it won't make players rush to get an Ash if they were never interested but it can definitely make players who already have Ash and don't use him much feel better about playing him in a group. It's not something newer players with Ashes will be able to catch onto so easily but it could make Ash pretty fun to play.

Edit: woops this post was longer than I thought eheh

Edited April 1, 2014 by 8bit_Ghost

[-Pearl-]

Give it five minutes, somebody will make a Loki version of this.

[suadumpy]

Ash has always been my favorite frame.

[Morec0]

If you ask me, Ash has ALWAYS been desirable. I know I want a piece of dat Ash.

[ensignvidiot]

You mispelled Loki in the thread title.

 

not because of the master-race bit... but because you left out his Ace-in-the-hole: Radial Disarm.

 

Ash can teleport to anything to kill them. But everything else is still shooting him during this time. He can smoke-bomb to stun them, but then they will resume shooting him at this time (and knocking him down if its grineer)

 

A Loki can step into a room and FORCE EVERYTHING to engage HIM in melee combat. With a wave of his hand, whole swaths of enemies will have to fight and die on HIS terms, not theirs

 

I think we will see more Loki's out in the system because of this, in addition we will be seeing less Perma-Invis-Spec lokis as well.

Edited April 1, 2014 by ensignvidiot

[8bit_Ghost]

You mispelled Loki.

 

not because of the master-race bit... but because you left out his Ace-in-the-hole: Radial Disarm.

 

Ash can teleport to anything to kill them. But everything else is still shooting him during this time.

 

A Loki can step into a room and FORCE EVERYTHING to engage HIM in melee combat.

 

I think we will see more Loki's out in the system because of this, in addition we will be seeing less Perma-Invis-Spec lokis as well.

Loki can indeed use Radial Disarm but then that's another 100 energy base. It is indeed helpful (and affects a larger amount of enemies) but it can leave a player drained before they can pull off something like this again.

[-Pearl-]

Loki can indeed use Radial Disarm but then that's another 100 energy base. It is indeed helpful (and affects a larger amount of enemies) but it can leave a player drained before they can pull off something like this again.

Energy Siphon+Streamline+Fleeting+Constitution+Continuity (optional Narrow Minded as well)

Problem Solved. Throw on flow if you're that desperate.

[(PSN)natek_morzy]

Yeah... It will also make Valkyr more desirable since shes.. you know.. a melee frame?

[Skynin]

Volt all the way. A TRUE BLADE STORM!

[-Pearl-]

Yeah... It will also make Valkyr more desirable since shes.. you know.. a melee frame?

Her Warcry is the reason why I tried her again. She's so fun with the Jat Kittag.

Volt all the way. A TRUE BLADE STORM!

Whoo!

[ensignvidiot]

Loki can indeed use Radial Disarm but then that's another 100 energy base. It is indeed helpful (and affects a larger amount of enemies) but it can leave a player drained before they can pull off something like this again.

 

True, with base stats. But thats also the issue with Teleport+Smokebomb. At 60 (35+25) energy for this technique, its also really expensive to pull off without modding for it. Im not sure if you can increase the range of the stun effect on both abilities, but being cloaked means that your enemies will be running towards whatever other thing they can shoot at (unless you are solo, in which case they will stand and patiently die). Fortuantly, in both cases, being invisible just lets you quickly turn everything into a gory paste.

 

Both methods are pricey, i mearly bring Loki up as he can quickly bring more numbers into Stab-Range, which is better for a team of tenno. Vice Ash, who will forever be the God-King of solo stabbing.

[8bit_Ghost]

Energy Siphon+Streamline+Fleeting+Constitution+Continuity (optional Narrow Minded as well)

Problem Solved. Throw on flow if you're that desperate.

True. Loki will always be a desirable frame and may or may not be more effective than Ash for some stuff. But Ash has something that Loki doesn't: a lot of health. Loki players are best kept invisible almost all the time, due to low health and shields. Ash, though, is an authentic bullet sponge. High health let's running into battle uncloaked a lot less risky than doing the same for Loki. 50 energy (if all those mods you've mentioned aren't on) every 30 seconds or so can become pretty draining too. Ash doesn't need to be invisible all the time, which is where he excels. Loki uses Invisibility primarily as a defensive tactic with added stealth damage. Ash uses Smoke Screen as a support/offensive power with added stealth damage.

In no way am I trying to dethrone "Master Race" with this post. What I am doing is pointing out that Melee 2.0 can make Ash very useful, which many players will say he isn't. My statements on Loki in the main post are to show the benefits that place Ash on par with Loki, hopefully.

[ensignvidiot]

True. Loki will always be a desirable frame and may or may not be more effective than Ash for some stuff. But Ash has something that Loki doesn't: a lot of health. Loki players are best kept invisible almost all the time,

-snip-

In no way am I trying to dethrone "Master Race" with this post. What I am doing is pointing out that Melee 2.0 can make Ash very useful, which many players will say he isn't. My statements on Loki in the main post are to show the benefits that place Ash on par with Loki, hopefully.

 

Aye, i find sheild Recharge-speed and Disarm+Decoy is what saves me from dying 9/10

 

Ash is the Tankier frame, and can survive more bullets to the face while quickly closing the distance.

 

...which actually makes this a 50/50 split between both of the stealth frames. Kind of like Agent 47 versus Corvo. The former can gun down virtually any threat in Absolution in addition to stealthing through everything, the latter can do the same, but has a harder time surviving without his abilities.

 

 

Don't mind the Master-race people. I don't really listen to them unless they can soloT3 keys without having to use Invisibility (yeah that was a challenge, prove me wrong :p). He was my first, i will always love him because while i felt squishy... i have never felt useless.

[Darkeus]

Ash needs steroids!

[s8kshUn8]

Ash can teleport to anything to kill them. But everything else is still shooting him during this time. He can smoke-bomb to stun them, but then they will resume shooting him at this time (and knocking him down if its grineer)

Or you could use smoke bomb first and avoid getting shot, also ash can take a few bullets unlike loki, who has half of ash's health. Yeah i know loki will be invis 90% of the time but ash doesn't rely on his invis for his survival.

[8bit_Ghost]

Or you could use smoke bomb first and avoid getting shot, also ash can take a few bullets unlike loki, who has half of ash's health. Yeah i know loki will be invis 90% of the time but ash doesn't rely on his invis for his survival.

Already pointed out :v teleport first and then smoke screen seems to work better to me because of how Smoke Screen lasts shorter than Invisibility. Also, the stun bonus with Screen encourages you to use them near enemies. As EnsignVidiot mentioned, he's super tanky compared to Loki so the benefits and downsides between Ash and Loki help balance out.

[ensignvidiot]

Or you could use smoke bomb first and avoid getting shot, also ash can take a few bullets unlike loki, who has half of ash's health. Yeah i know loki will be invis 90% of the time but ash doesn't rely on his invis for his survival.

 

 

Decoy does more for my survival, and its cheaper. Its convenient to run around an alert or invasion super quick. But all it takes is me pushing 4, and then 1... suddenly i get to make All of the Headshots.

 

EDIT: Tenno'd

Edited April 1, 2014 by ensignvidiot

[artemis9]

first of all, Im all for the ash master race, it was my tfourth warframe and my favorite, but why would you teleport if you can just use shurican, as far as I know it seems to have almost unlimited range and with blind rage and focus/intensify on it does alot of damage.

[ensignvidiot]

first of all, Im all for the ash master race, it was my tfourth warframe and my favorite, but why would you teleport if you can just use shurican, as far as I know it seems to have almost unlimited range and with blind rage and focus/intensify on it does alot of damage.

 

Because it does nothing to get you within Stab-distance to take advantage of whatever melee 2.0 brings us

 

:D

[8bit_Ghost]

first of all, Im all for the ash master race, it was my tfourth warframe and my favorite, but why would you teleport if you can just use shurican, as far as I know it seems to have almost unlimited range and with blind rage and focus/intensify on it does alot of damage.

At most it can only take out 2 enemies at once. Super spammable, yeah, but powers like Pull, Fireball, and even Phychic Bolts do the same thing and better (Pull especially good for CC).

[Feallike]

Omg seriously, dude how did you forget the one major factor Melee 2.0 will do to Ash.

 

 

 

THE COMBO MULTIPLIER WORKS WITH BLADESTORM!!!! 

 

 

Blade storm does 2k damage so ya, after like a 20 combo you will do 40k a hit with blade storm. :)

[Feallike]

Energy Siphon+Streamline+Fleeting+Constitution+Continuity (optional Narrow Minded as well)

Problem Solved. Throw on flow if you're that desperate.

 

Then you don't have enough slots for Speed, so by the time you get to the enemy Ash has killed them all. :)

 

 

Unless your planning on Formaing it 4x. 

Edited April 1, 2014 by Feallike

[8bit_Ghost]

Omg seriously, dude how did you forget the one major factor Melee 2.0 will do to Ash.

 

 

 

THE COMBO MULTIPLIER WORKS WITH BLADESTORM!!!! 

 

 

Blade storm does 2k damage so ya, after like a 20 combo you will do 40k a hit with blade storm. :)

Idk if this will count yet because we haven't tested this out for sure yet. Also the benefits of this are dubious. Yeah, cool, you get to do more and more damage as you keep attacking, but because the order of enemies attacked with Blade Storm isn't guaranteed, you could be attacking all the high health enemies first and then dealing 40k damage to the enemies that don't need it.

[Feallike]

Idk if this will count yet because we haven't tested this out for sure yet. Also the benefits of this are dubious. Yeah, cool, you get to do more and more damage as you keep attacking, but because the order of enemies attacked with Blade Storm isn't guaranteed, you could be attacking all the high health enemies first and then dealing 40k damage to the enemies that don't need it.

 

Well if you use a dagger and go for a huge combo then it becomes very viable. (speed combo + Dagger = possibly insta 20 combo)

 

 

Also DE_Steve confirmed that Blade storm will work with multiplier. 

Edited April 1, 2014 by Feallike

[8bit_Ghost]

Well if you use a dagger and go for a huge combo then it becomes very viable. (speed combo + Dagger = possibly insta 20 combo)

 

 

Also DE_Steve confirmed that Blade storm will work with multiplier.

This would mean that you would have had the combo running up until you use blade storm. This COULD be useful for high level enemies, but many other powers could get in the way of this. A combo chain is easily broken for Ash because of how an enemy needs to be hit to keep a combo running. If one enemy that Ash has marked gets killed before he can kill it, then the whole chain is broken.

Also I would like to be linked to when and where DeSteve said that