Please Help With Laser Doors

[Itchbay311]

Everything MJ12 said +10

[Mithie]

This is what happens when you fail to explain a core game mechanic. People get the wrong idea and then proceed to spend their time acting as if that wrong idea is correct. This is a bad thing.

This seems to be a summation of your side of the argument, and I think it's very hard to disagree with you.

I feel this is a general thing across the board with the current state of the game and not entirely isolated to laser doors. Now, I hate pulling the "Still in beta, man" card just as much as everyone else, but I think this is one of those cases where it's warranted.

[MJ12]

This seems to be a summation of your side of the argument, and I think it's very hard to disagree with you.

I feel this is a general thing across the board with the current state of the game and not entirely isolated to laser doors. Now, I hate pulling the "Still in beta, man" card just as much as everyone else, but I think this is one of those cases where it's warranted.

I know the reason is probably because of the beta and that they haven't gotten time to implement a proper tutorial for important stuff but it still needs pointing out. I'm not blaming DE for not having an explanation. I'm saying that this is still a problem and needs to be fixed sometime. Preferably with the proper launch of the Warframe open beta.

[Dongfeng]

At this point, you can use slide slash to pass the laser if you time it correctly (or other Warframes' unique mods).

Also if your team has a mag that can easily pass the door, and has more than 75 points of energy, you can get in without even moving a finger (Pull works wonders for laser doors).

[Mithie]

I know the reason is probably because of the beta and that they haven't gotten time to implement a proper tutorial for important stuff but it still needs pointing out. I'm not blaming DE for not having an explanation. I'm saying that this is still a problem and needs to be fixed sometime. Preferably with the proper launch of the Warframe open beta.

Another reason, probably, is because a lot of the newer features aren't in stone yet. I'm not privy to Warframe's product roadmap, but I'd imagine like all large scale software products, it tends to change quite a bit. Coding in tutorials and such for features which might be cut or completely re-vamped in the next few updates (such as the upgrade tree, for example) doesn't make much sense.

The stuff that HAVE been solidified, such as the bare bones gameplay, are shown in the intro tutorial.

[Cauldrath]

While I'm not entirely opposed to a tutorial, there is a concept in writing called "show, don't tell" that is equally applicable to games. While a tutorial or an explanation from Lotus would be easier to design and possibly also to implement, it is almost always a better experience if the players can at least think that they figured it out for themselves. It just needs to be ensured that they always see the pieces of the puzzle when it is presented to them and subtle clues could be included to help the player figure it out. The first corpus mission could be changed to be inside of a ship that had been partially blasted apart and you can see exposed wires running from the door to the camera that spark when it is activated, for example.

[Kanaris]

While I'm not entirely opposed to a tutorial, there is a concept in writing called "show, don't tell" that is equally applicable to games. While a tutorial or an explanation from Lotus would be easier to design and possibly also to implement, it is almost always a better experience if the players can at least think that they figured it out for themselves. It just needs to be ensured that they always see the pieces of the puzzle when it is presented to them and subtle clues could be included to help the player figure it out. The first corpus mission could be changed to be inside of a ship that had been partially blasted apart and you can see exposed wires running from the door to the camera that spark when it is activated, for example.

This is a decent idea, I could go for something like that.

One thing I have to wonder is how people about the cipher puzzles or team doors: it's the same concept the first time you encounter them. I see literally no difference between either of those and the cameras and laser doors. They are not explained to you and both can get you killed (by enemy fire in the case of ciphers and doors) because you didn't understand them at first.

[MJ12]

This is a decent idea, I could go for something like that.

One thing I have to wonder is how people about the cipher puzzles or team doors: it's the same concept the first time you encounter them. I see literally no difference between either of those and the cameras and laser doors. They are not explained to you and both can get you killed (by enemy fire in the case of ciphers and doors) because you didn't understand them at first.

Team doors are explained if you can't figure them out, though. "You need a teammate to help you open this door." Hacking should probably have a tutorial of some sort when it's finalized since it's critical as well. I mean there's no problem in making the explanation only come if it's clear the players are lost without it, but there should be some explanation at some point in time.

[anunknownplayer]

get enemy radar artifact. cameras are enemies and show up making life a whole lot easier.

[Deathwing980]

these doors are annoying as hell and most cases will zap all of my 195 shields either that or reduce countdown on them or make it so it needs to be hacked

Camera + Bullet = No more Turrets = No more Laser doors

Find the Giant green moving light on the cieling, shoot the RED glowing light if it spots you, the cameras are the key in Corpus missions to preventing yourself from being Laser grid locked... its like the Grineers lockouts so to speak

[CosyPigeon]

Only problem I have with lasers is when you get hit by them, sometimes instead of being flung backwards as is supposed to happen, you get flung into the door frame and get stuck under the lasers, being vaporised forever. It's a really S#&$ty way to die because there is nothing you can do about it.

Edited April 2, 2013 by CosyPigeon

[KurokoOkami]

Yes I agree with a number of posts there should be some sort of prompt, as well as a tutorial to wallrunning. This prompt can be as simple as lotus saying "Find the scanner to lower the Laser barrier. They should be simple to find, look for the green light" You can hear the cameras whirl back and forth as well as the beeping. If that isnt a easy enough prompt to understand then I'm out of ideas.

Of course the camera wont appear on the map, unless you have the radar artifact. I believe the words "camera" and "green light" should be more than enough for a newbie to piece the puzzle together.

[Wesgile]

have actually no problem knowing/dealing with the laser doors and cameras especially compared to wallrunning/scaling.

the cameras glow red with a really loud and annoying noise i just shot them to shut that and "hey, laser doors gone".

[Phant0m_Hunter]

just run/slide through it with a high speed

[LordLokai]

also cameras make a distinct mechanic sound... if learn to listen for it can find cameras easily i also believe... some mobs are keyed into the doors... as sometimes kill a group and doors go back to normal but lasers remain on otherwise.

[Gredd18]

I Just Roll Thro And Say With a Trollface

"I Can ROLL, Beeeaatttcchhh!"

[Sollet]

Yes, and I was paying attention and never actually put together "cameras activate laser doors" until I asked the forum. I assumed you were supposed to jump-slide under them because that was what worked some of the time. The people I played with at that time also thought the same thing.

This is what happens when you fail to explain a core game mechanic. People get the wrong idea and then proceed to spend their time acting as if that wrong idea is correct. This is a bad thing.

I have to agree with Kanaris on this one... Seems like you weren't paying enough attention.

It takes like a couple of seconds to observe a certain pattern or connection between the cameras and the laser doors.

[HvcTerr]

The Camera/Door mechanic is not adequately discoverable nor explained, and the cause/effect relationships (particularly in multiplayer) are not cut-and-dried enough to expect people to figure out what's going on.

Everyone who says it is "obvious" now either (A) got lucky the first time they were introduced to them or (B) were already primed with explanations or hints or © have forgotten what their original experience was really like.

__________

What needs fixing:

1. From a distance the ceiling cameras look exactly like soft decorative lights. Seriously, at most ranges I can't even see the camera itself, all I can see if a huge diffuse lime-white or pink-white blob. Even knowing ahead of time, I have to fire blindly towards the center of the blur! Fix the bloom, and make red-cameras project a threatening laser-beam or something.

2. There needs to be a bit more warning before the doom-lasers flicker into place, given latency and the speed at which players run, particularly when some other teammate is the one who triggers it.

3. You need to be able to see if a door is laser-blocked before the door itself opens. (Again, due to latency etc.) Instead of putting the laser-lines "inside" the door, put some of them on both sides.

4. There needs to be a limit on how far the security system works. Right now you can get easily trapped and killed because some inconsiderate speedrunner is up ahead, or some newbie is dawdling behind.

At a minimum, #1 and #3 should be straightforward visual fixes.

Edited April 2, 2013 by HvcTerr

[Kanaris]

The Camera/Door mechanic is not adequately discoverable nor explained, and the cause/effect relationships (particularly in multiplayer) are not cut-and-dried enough to expect people to figure out what's going on.

Everyone who says it is "obvious" now either (A) got lucky the first time they were introduced to them or (B) were already primed with explanations or hints or © have forgotten what their original experience was really like.

I was neither of those and I am certainly no genius.

It is very simple and straight-forward. Camera screams an alarm and turns red, lasers and turrets come out to play. If you fail to make that association you need better situational awareness or you need to be more thoughtful. Problem solving is something you should go into anything prepared to do.

1. Perfect.

2. No. That makes them much too easy to overcome after you've figured them out.

3. No. You should assume all doors have their lasers armed. This is rational.

4. No. The real problem there is a lack of teamwork. If a newbie is falling behind, stay with them, and rushers are not being team players.

Edited April 2, 2013 by Kanaris

[HvcTerr]

If you fail to make that association you need better situational awareness or you need to be more thoughtful. Problem solving is something you should go into anything prepared to do.

No, it's a non-introduced and easily-missed set of relationships. Just join some random games with newbies doing their first Corpus levels without having read guides/wikis, and you'll see first-hand evidence over and over and over. They often don't recognize the cameras as more than lights, they assume the doors are motion-sensitive due to coincidental camera fields-of-view, and their fragile mental-models are further-disrupted every time a teammate's activities with unseen cameras change the door they're staring at.

2. No. That makes them much too easy to overcome after you've figured them out.

No it won't, not if the window-of-opportunity doesn't change. Heck, define a larger cone-of-view and have the camera go "suspicious" as people enter it, putting up ghostly beams. Only "harden" them when the camera is truly alarmed/red.

Leave the existing timings/ranges/angles unchanged.

3. No. You should assume all doors have their lasers armed. This is rational.

Why not? You're just punishing people for the actions of one random teammate who they cannot easily avoid nor kick.

4. No. The real problem there is a lack of teamwork. If a newbie is falling behind, stay with them, and rushers are not being team players

See above. What am I supposed to do about the guy who goes AFK in front of a camera nobody else can reach, huh?

Edited April 3, 2013 by HvcTerr

[fishworshipper]

Guys, I just started playing the day this game came out on Steam and instantly figured out the turret-camera-door relationship. You people have brains. Use them.

[MJ12]

Guys, I just started playing the day this game came out on Steam and instantly figured out the turret-camera-door relationship. You people have brains. Use them.

The singular of anecdote is not 'data'.

You got lucky. Some people encountered a camera in an out of-the-way location that triggered a laser door, with a bunch of guys who also didn't know how cameras worked and ended up completely lost. You know why? Because we "used our brains".

"This door seems to turn on pain lasers when we get close and turn them off when we move away, with no other obvious signs"

"Hmm I guess we need to stay far away from it and sprint through it"

This is not even close to impossible or improbable. Plenty of people have had it happen to them. They then draw the wrong conclusion, because the correct one hasn't been told to them, and then they end up getting frustrated and quitting. I joined in relatively early closed beta, so I just made an angry post on how the timing to 'dodge' them was unintuitive, because the first experience I had with them forged a very strong impression in my mind that the only way to bypass them was to dodge through them.

This stuff is what happens when you 'use your brain'. People don't always come to the same conclusions you do. People don't all think in the same way.

[ReiganCross]

This stuff is what happens when you 'use your brain'. People don't always come to the same conclusions you do. People don't all think in the same way.

Preposterous! All of us think exactly the same way! We all want a personal meeting with Lotus so we can closely examine a crazy mind that keeps speaking directly to our brains! We all also have fantasies about her in leather gear.

[fishworshipper]

The singular of anecdote is not 'data'.

You got lucky. Some people encountered a camera in an out of-the-way location that triggered a laser door, with a bunch of guys who also didn't know how cameras worked and ended up completely lost. You know why? Because we "used our brains".

"This door seems to turn on pain lasers when we get close and turn them off when we move away, with no other obvious signs"

"Hmm I guess we need to stay far away from it and sprint through it"

This is not even close to impossible or improbable. Plenty of people have had it happen to them. They then draw the wrong conclusion, because the correct one hasn't been told to them, and then they end up getting frustrated and quitting. I joined in relatively early closed beta, so I just made an angry post on how the timing to 'dodge' them was unintuitive, because the first experience I had with them forged a very strong impression in my mind that the only way to bypass them was to dodge through them.

This stuff is what happens when you 'use your brain'. People don't always come to the same conclusions you do. People don't all think in the same way.

"Hm, these lasers in this door damage the living hell out of me, I wonder if there's some sort of way to get rid of them. Oh hey, there's this massive red light on the ceiling, and it has a health bar. I wonder what happens if I shoot it. Oh, it exploded and the lasers are gone!"

"Hm, this camera has a green light, but when I go in front of it it turns red, and then the laser doors and turrets turn on. OK, so I have to look for green lights and shoot the red ones."

Edited April 3, 2013 by fishworshipper

[Dasmir]

-Play a corpus game.

-Try to rush the level like any speedrunner.

-Get instakilled by the door laser bug.

-Starts to QQ about ANTI FUN THINGS on the forum !

YES ! I love the laser doors, they kept the speedrunners scum away.