Game Becoming To Much Of A "pay To Win" Type Game.

[Dusklite]

I agree with most of the points here, but it's still pretty much NOT only paying for convenience with the current system of "rank". Bear in mind, though that this is my personal point of view and I'm not asking for anything, just state how I see things:

As far as I understand the system they will be adding new warframes and weapons with rank requirement in later updates. To increase your rank, you need to level equipment (warframes/weapons) and you have a very limited inventory. So if you want to get the new rank-limited stuff you need to buy new stuff but sell your trusty rank 30 warframe/weapon (maybe even boosted) to do it because your inventory is full.

What does that mean?

I means either you cough up the plat to increase your slots and get some (lasting) variety in your arsenal or you literally spend DAYS buying and levelling the same S#&$ty LATO you buy and sell over and over again. So you either have NO fun grinding by using low rank cheap weaponry or you finally spend some real money. The system actually forces you to use the crappy equipment because it only levels that way which means you are playing on a whole different level than others with more weapons (and slots). Also once you pretty much max out your favorite warframe and weapons the current system gives no incentive to keep using them.

Solution suggestions (and/or):

- make slots available for (a whole bunch of) credits

- make extra slots available as a (rare) reward for anything. Make it a rare login reward or alert reward or get creative...

- rework the way weapons and equipment are handled so you can keep earning (maybe less and less) progress towards the next rank

- rework the rank system

That's just my $0.02 here, but I can't see me either paying for a system that feels like a hostage situation for my trusty weaponry or spend farming affinity for the same crappy equipment over and over again so I am allowed to buy a shiny new weapon eventually. I do understand the reasoning behind buying slots with platinum but I hope at least some see the issue here.

edits: another suggestion and spelling correction. 'nuff said.

Edited April 2, 2013 by Dusklite

[Ascension]

This game isn't pay to win, the Branton cost 10000 credits and is a direct upgrade, the gorgon Bp can be bough once you leveled up. Te latron snipertron 50k each. Pistols cost credits as well, I see no pay to win aspects at all. In fact the closest to p2w is the skin for the hammer that buffs it a little bit, but then it also nerfs it a little. So it's fair.

lol the buff is attacck speed, the nerf is charge speed, u charge on that hammer? real.....

oh well the effects are minor and i dont use that hammer is why i dont really care about that, but who knows, maybe they are gona make a skin for everything for $_$

[Venarge]

I agree with most of the points here, but it's still pretty much NOT only paying for convenience with the current system of "rank". Bear in mind, though that this is my personal point of view and I'm not asking for anything, just state how I see things:

As far as I understand the system they will be adding new warframes and weapons with rank requirement in later updates. To increase your rank, you need to level equipment (warframes/weapons) and you have a very limited inventory. So if you want to get the new rank-limited stuff you need to buy new stuff but sell your trusty rank 30 warframe/weapon (maybe even boosted) to do it because your inventory is full.

What does that mean?

I means either you cough up the plat to increase your slots and get some (lasting) variety in your arsenal or you literally spend DAYS buying and levelling the same S#&$ty LATO you buy and sell over and over again. So you either have NO fun grinding by using low rank cheap weaponry or you finally spend some real money. The system actually forces you to use the crappy equipment because it only levels that way which means you are playing on a whole different level than others with more weapons (and slots). Also once you pretty much max out your favorite warframe and weapons the current system gives no incentive to keep using them.

Solution suggestions (and/or):

- make slots available for (a whole bunch of) credits

- make extra slots available as a (rare) reward for anything. Make it a rare login reward or alert reward or get creative...

- rework the way weapons and equipment are handled so you can keep earning (maybe less and less) progress towards the next rank

- rework the rank system

That's just my $0.02 here, but I can't see me either paying for a system that feels like a hostage situation for my trusty weaponry or spend farming affinity for the same crappy equipment over and over again so I am allowed to buy a shiny new weapon eventually. I do understand the reasoning behind buying slots with platinum but I hope at least some see the issue here.

edits: another suggestion and spelling correction. 'nuff said.

your 50 start plat allow you to add 4 slots. more than enough

Edited April 2, 2013 by Venarge

[krisp]

The system actually forces you to use the crappy equipment because it only levels that way which means you are playing on a whole different level than others with more weapons (and slots). Also once you pretty much max out your favorite warframe and weapons the current system gives no incentive to keep using them.

It doesn't actually force you. It only sort of forces you because no one will want to delete their stuff if they can help it.

But 8 weapon slots is enough to keep your favorites and sell the ones you're not using. And levelling something over and over doesn't work,

[Dusklite]

It doesn't actually force you. It only sort of forces you because no one will want to delete their stuff if they can help it.

But 8 weapon slots is enough to keep your favorites and sell the ones you're not using. And levelling something over and over doesn't work,

I thought weapon rank aren't saved so if I sell something and buy the same model I get a unranked weapon?

No, it doesn't actually force anyone to do anything - it's a game, not a job. But let's face it, most serious gamers are optimizers: "How can I be most effective at what I do?" And right now, platinum only pays for convenience items, cosmetic stuff, getting things easier... and slots. Meaning the only thing you "sort of" need to pay for are slots and there's no way around it except dumping your other hard-earned or paid-for stuff. It's a hostage situation as I see it. Either get two warframe slots or 8 weapon slots (or any combination) with your starting plat (which I dumped 20p of on a Orokin Reactor because I didn't know I can get blueprints for them back then), but then you need to pay for more or get rid of weapons you either paid for or played quite a while to get. And with new equipment coming out every odd update, everyone will get to that point eventually. If you could earn slots (by getting ranks, alert missions, login rewards or something...) the system could actually work for everyone and the game stops being freemium for me.

I'm not trying to defend my point any more than I've done now. Either you agree or you don't. Both is fine by me. I still have 3 slots and I'm still playing the game. I still have fun and it's still in beta so everything is subject to change.

At least I'm not crying that I'm entitled to get everything rather optional free or easier. The rest of the system is alright for me even if you have to collect a whole bunch of credits and materials/blueprints for a single piece of equipment.

Edited April 2, 2013 by Dusklite

[Pauliwoggius]

People seem to be forgetting that you have to level/rank the gear procured. That being said, the only thing that I think comes close to being pay2win is the reactor/catalyst/tater. Yes, you can get them from alerts, but that is just a shot in the dark for a lot of people. Keep in mind that these practically double the effectiveness of any piece of gear they are equipped on.

[krisp]

I thought weapon rank aren't saved so if I sell something and buy the same model I get a unranked weapon?

A weapon's level isn't saved, but you don't get any XP if you level the same thing again. The game saves the last level you got with each weapon and you won't get any XP towards ranking up if you just sell and level it again.

I never thought 2 warframe slots was fine in any way, but 8 weapon slots is enough for 2 weapon sets + 2 extras.

[Dusklite]

People seem to be forgetting that you have to level/rank the gear procured. That being said, the only thing that I think comes close to being pay2win is the reactor/catalyst/tater. Yes, you can get them from alerts, but that is just a shot in the dark for a lot of people. Keep in mind that these practically double the effectiveness of any piece of gear they are equipped on.

Nah, I've just omitted the fact you level your stuff between "resets". The orokin stuff you can at least get but I do agree that buying them actually makes you stronger instantly. You still have to level your mods, though which costs a lot of creds and fusion cores/duplicates/crap mods to do and right now, you can't really exchange plat for creds so that's only mildly annoying for me.

[Venarge]

Why should you be able to exchange plat for credits?

[Dusklite]

A weapon's level isn't saved, but you don't get any XP if you level the same thing again. The game saves the last level you got with each weapon and you won't get any XP towards ranking up if you just sell and level it again.

I never thought 2 warframe slots was fine in any way, but 8 weapon slots is enough for 2 weapon sets + 2 extras.

Didn't know the part of re-levelling a weapon not giving rank XP. That at least isn't as easily abused as I thought. Good.

Yup, two sets and 2 extras is enough to use for 2 warframes, but in the end that still means abandoning, not just "stowing" your rank 30 stuff and reusing weapons if you happen to have more than 2 warframes. I'm not saying slots should be easy to get, just that they should be able to get by playing. Games like Guild Wars 2 have a system which allows you to spend your in-game currency on paid-for currency. I'm not asking for that, but something as essential as more space you should be able to earn.

... now I've done it and defended my point further. Well done, sir. I salute you.

Edited April 2, 2013 by Dusklite

[Dusklite]

Why should you be able to exchange plat for credits?

It was in place before the last update. Try https://forums.warfr...num-vs-credits/ for proof.

Oh, I get it. No, not your credits for getting plat. The other way 'round. Your plat for creds.

Edited April 2, 2013 by Dusklite

[Kurochikun]

While I don't agree I wish things would be a little cheaper... Like 19£ for a new warframe or weapon? 5£ for colours?

[Venarge]

Didn't know the part of re-levelling a weapon not giving rank XP. That at least isn't as easily abused as I thought. Good.

Yup, two sets and 2 extras is enough to use for 2 warframes, but in the end that still means abandoning, not just "stowing" your rank 30 stuff and reusing weapons if you happen to have more than 2 warframes. I'm not saying slots should be easy to get, just that they should be able to get by playing. Games like Guild Wars 2 have a system which allows you to spend your in-game currency on paid-for currency. I'm not asking for that, but something as essential as more space should be able to earn.

... now I've done it and defended my point further. Well done, sir. I salute you.

So how should the game make money, if actually everything can be obtained through playing. i mean, getting almost everything seems fine to me. But people want to find potatoes and slots in game. I can understand that, but people forget that this is a free to play game.

Edited April 2, 2013 by Venarge

[krisp]

Didn't know the part of re-levelling a weapon not giving rank XP. That at least isn't as easily abused as I thought. Good.

Yup, two sets and 2 extras is enough to use for 2 warframes, but in the end that still means abandoning, not just "stowing" your rank 30 stuff and reusing weapons if you happen to have more than 2 warframes. I'm not saying slots should be easy to get, just that they should be able to get by playing. Games like Guild Wars 2 have a system which allows you to spend your in-game currency on paid-for currency. I'm not asking for that, but something as essential as more space you should be able to earn.

... now I've done it and defended my point further. Well done, sir. I salute you.

...why would each warframe use a specific weapon set, again? It's not like their skills are tailored specifically to synergize with certain weapons. This game isn't that deep.

At the end of the day limiting slots by money isn't such a bad idea, it just depends on how draconic the limit is. ~3 warframes with 8 weapons is ok from my point of view, especially since you get 50 plat for free (and if you're THAT desperate you can make separate accounts, it's not very efficient but you don't need to delete anything).

[Venarge]

At the end of the day limiting slots by money isn't such a bad idea, it just depends on how draconic the limit is. ~3 warframes with 8 weapons is ok from my point of view, especially since you get 50 plat for free (and if you're THAT desperate you can make separate accounts, it's not very efficient but you don't need to delete anything).

Truth was spoken!

Best answer ever

Edited April 2, 2013 by Venarge

[Dusklite]

So how should the game make money, if actually everything can be obtained through playing. i mean, getting almost everything seems fine to me. But people want to find potatoes and slots in game. I can understand that, but people forget that this is a free to play game.

That's why I said I understand the reasoning behind the slots. I think it's something they will look at. I can imagine they will closely observe what will be bought and what won't and then decide what to make accessible by playing and what is paid-only. It's just that the slot system strikes me as odd with the other things in game. What essential stuff can't be earned by playing? Correct. Almost nothing.

Actually, I would probably already be happy if the weapon ranks are saved even if you sell it. It's more logical this way anyway. Just because you give your bow away doesn't mean you forgot how to use one.

But consider this: Warframe gets positive reviews wherever I look. People are interested. Server costs are pretty low since the game is hosted on a p2p basis, so constant high revenue mainly pays for faster and more elaborate content updates. Guild Wars 2 has a one time cost of, what... 40 bucks? If you believe the team, they are doing quite well with their system and they have lots of maintenance costs.

If Warframe was a one-time purchase and everything in the item shop was optional they would probably swimming in money. Even if it was free and there were vanity and convenience items for platinum they would probably make profits. Lots, I bet.

[Dusklite]

...why would each warframe use a specific weapon set, again? It's not like their skills are tailored specifically to synergize with certain weapons. This game isn't that deep.

At the end of the day limiting slots by money isn't such a bad idea, it just depends on how draconic the limit is. ~3 warframes with 8 weapons is ok from my point of view, especially since you get 50 plat for free (and if you're THAT desperate you can make separate accounts, it's not very efficient but you don't need to delete anything).

That works if ranks will not limit what kind of warframes and weapons you can get. Other than that: yes, it's about the limit. If it was high enough, slots would turn into a convenience item.

Look, I'm not *@##$ing. If I don't like where this is going, I'm quitting the game. Easy as that. But this is the gameplay feedback forum, yes?

[Ptosis]

As most people have said you can get everything ( except warframe and weapon slots ) without using Plat, so i wouldn't say it's a wa pay to win game.

It would be a pay to win game if half of the gear was only purchasable with plat or if the game allowed you to buy a Rank locked weapon ( like Hek or Gorgon ) with Plat without having to reach the required rank.

[Lemonpinesol]

It amuses me that the OP of this thread clearly made his judgements before looking thoroughly through the shop and now his only gripe is that it takes too long to get new gear when you begin.  If you arnt soloing you can get very far with starter gear if you continue to mod it, the first item I ever crafted was the akboltos which are notorious for being one of the harder weapons to craft money and time wise.  I had this item roughly a week into playing the game, I think that is a far pace for getting one of the games best weapons crafting when I was still a rank 1 newb who didnt know the game that well.  I enjoy the pace of this game and I think people are spoiled by the triple A titles who canstantly throw levels and rewards at you with no real time or work put into them.  Needles to say you can buy a few weapons with under 20k credits, and that much money doesnt take very long to get.  Obviously frames take some more farming, but the starter frames are all enjoyable and dont lose their usefullness later on in the game.  I still play my excal all the time.

[ArcaneAzmadi]

only be purchased with plat? It seems you havent even looked at the whole market. please. EVERY item is obtainable through playing. So please. Go and look at the whole market before making these kind of threads....

Blueprints are obtainable for almost every weapon/ frame for credits.... This thread is invalid

Everyone keeps saying that and it's STILL not true. You HAVE to buy warframe and arsenal slots with platinum, there's no other way of getting them. Considering the game is BASED around acquiring and levelling up a collection of warframes and weapons, you essentially HAVE TO spend money at some point if you want to keep playing (what are you going to do, sell a warframe? Those things take SO long to grind for I'd sooner cut off my own foot than sell one!).

 

And that's inexcusable. When I run out of slots and have spent the complementary 50 platinum they gave me to start, that's when I'll uninstall. I will NOT be held to ransom like this.

[Mbgunsling]

this is a dumb thread.

-Everything can be obtained through regular play as drops, unlocks or credit store, bar slots (at present).

-It takes a while to do so because otherwise, people would easily max out everything within a short space of time and lose interest in the game without paying a cent, causing DE to suffer losses.

 

I'm not surprised this thread exists, there's always one person who wants everything free and easy.

 

[Venarge]

Everyone keeps saying that and it's STILL not true. You HAVE to buy warframe and arsenal slots with platinum, there's no other way of getting them. Considering the game is BASED around acquiring and levelling up a collection of warframes and weapons, you essentially HAVE TO spend money at some point if you want to keep playing (what are you going to do, sell a warframe? Those things take SO long to grind for I'd sooner cut off my own foot than sell one!).

 

And that's inexcusable. When I run out of slots and have spent the complementary 50 platinum they gave me to start, that's when I'll uninstall. I will NOT be held to ransom like this.

 

 

Ok. So you get a game that normally would cost 60 bucks for what? nothing. You get all the content for what? Nothing. You can have all the items for what? nothing. The start plat is enough to buy at least two mor frames. Just because you want all the stuff at once doesnt mean that game is unfair... You can still get all the content. If you want more than the regular stuff, go and support the game. Besides that, they even will give you warframe slots by playing so your little whining can stop. You should remember that this is a free 2 play game but it seems its not enough for you having a awesome game with highend graphics for not a single cent. More and more and more for nothing. I hate this attitude.....

So you can leave now if this game is so inexcusable and unfair.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Venarge

[DarkDestiny]

There are only three things that can only be acquired with Platinum: Cosmetics, Omni Ammo, Inventory Slots. Everything else can be played for.

 

I got omni ammo from log in rewards.

[ArcaneAzmadi]

Ok. So you get a game that normally would cost 60 bucks for what? nothing. You get all the content for what? Nothing. You can have all the items for what? nothing. The start plat is enough to buy at least two mor frames. Just because you want all the stuff at once doesnt mean that game is unfair... You can still get all the content. If you want more than the regular stuff, go and support the game. Besides that, they even will give you warframe slots by playing so your little whining can stop. You should remember that this is a free 2 play game but it seems its not enough for you having a awesome game with highend graphics for not a single cent. More and more and more for nothing. I hate this attitude.....

So you can leave now if this game is so inexcusable and unfair.

Hate to break it to you, but this game would NOT be worth $60. No way. There's not NEARLY enough content. Maybe once it's out of beta, but not before.

 

And frankly, I'm sick of YOUR attitude. "If you don't want to pay to play this "free-to-play game" then you don't have the right to complain about it." Warframe and weapons slots are NOT "more than the regular stuff"- they're part of the basic framework of the game. They are something we should not HAVE to pay for. It's like expecting us to pay for access to the planets.

 

And by the way, they won't "give you warframe slots by playing".

Edited April 13, 2013 by ArcaneAzmadi

[Davoodoo]

Even brokk hammer skin can be gotten without plat (i dropped at night few days ago) so pls dont start with pay 2 win bullS#&$.i lack only 2 frames till full collection and only things i spent money so far was banshee and potatoes(im lazy i know)