Hit-Monkey Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) So we're starting to see the first of the Solar Rails getting put up by those who most likely rushed the building of their Orokin Labs, no surprise there, and the thing we see advertised is Tax Free Solar Rails. This is a bad thing. Why? Those who have set up their Solar Rails into the Dark Sectors early get their fingers into those pies and are happy, but those who couldn't? They're going to launch their Solar Rails and watch as the incumbant clan/alliance just sit their with their tax frees, with no ability to truly influence the matter. This is an economics disaster in so far as the Solar Rail industry goes, that's a monopoly providing nobody else with the ability to compete. Maybe I'm worrying over nothing, and the early birds will raise up their tribute levels at a later date, but I don't see that as a thing that will happen. My personal believe is that the DE's should implement a minimum Tax level at the very least. 0% Taxes is bad for business, and that's what the Solar Rails are in the end. A Business. EDIT: I'd also be quite happy to be proven wrong. EDIT 2: I appear to have completely forgotten about the battle pay aspect, which is a valid point, but let's see what happens there. Edited April 12, 2014 by Hit-Monkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 There's an upkeep to the rails, isn't there? They'll realize that quickly enough and then have to raise their prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hit-Monkey Posted April 12, 2014 Author Share Posted April 12, 2014 There's an upkeep to the rails, isn't there? They'll realize that quickly enough and then have to raise their prices. If there is, I didn't read about it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egg_Chen Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) Do these things cost money to maintain and defend? If so we may just find that 0% rails are not viable for an Alliance, longterm. Unless they have one as a "loss leader" supported by higher taxes on other rails. Too early to tell I think. Edited April 12, 2014 by Egg_Chen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 If there is, I didn't read about it yet. I thought I saw it on the forums, might have been mistaken. If there isn't, though, there SHOULD be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poopycakes Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Furst it was crying because of taxes, now it's crying because no taxes? <.< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Furst it was crying because of taxes, now it's crying because no taxes? <.< No one will ever be happy with everything, you know how the saying goes: if you try to please everyone, you please no one - there's always some element that someone's not happy with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hit-Monkey Posted April 12, 2014 Author Share Posted April 12, 2014 Furst it was crying because of taxes, now it's crying because no taxes? <.< Crying implies emotional pain. This is not pain, sir, this is business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric1738 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 if no tax no upkeep, then dark sector means "hey my alliance controls this node". u may think that's trivial, but some might care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCOAS Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 0% tax rate, 20,000 battle pay versus 30% tax rate, 100,000 battle pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hit-Monkey Posted April 12, 2014 Author Share Posted April 12, 2014 I should also qualify that this isn't really the fault of DE for allowing the Tax rates to be at 0%. This a fault of the players, the ones setting up the Rails trying to stiffle competition by having ZERO TAXES FOREVER. It's a thing that can't be allowed, especially when DE themselves stated the purpose of the Solar Rails is for clans to compete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LurkenLurker Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Personally i think i be fun just to troll the zero tax alliances and keep their sectors constantly contested they cant protect them all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LurkenLurker Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 0% tax rate, 20,000 battle pay versus 30% tax rate, 100,000 battle pay. If you taxes are higher then the bonuses the dark sectors gives no one is gonna fight for you But money talks if dat battle pay is say 1 mill or 50 mill in credits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnnaJReverT Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 well, if a clan truly wants to take over a node they can attack 0% nodes as well might not find as much helpers as attacking a 15% one, but still could, and be it just for the heck of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketec Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 min tax wont change anything - it means that everyone simply uses min tax and there is still no competition. If i have to choose in between 0% node and a greedy 10'%... the 10% can just vanish. Im not wasting my time to enrich some fat warlord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hit-Monkey Posted April 12, 2014 Author Share Posted April 12, 2014 min tax wont change anything - it means that everyone simply uses min tax and there is still no competition. If i have to choose in between 0% node and a greedy 10'%... the 10% can just vanish. Im not wasting my time to enrich some fat warlord. 10% is hardly fat warlord tax rates. You're thinking 70%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperWeedy-EGT- Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Im more worried if there will even be a reason to go to the dark sectors even with 0% tax. Being level 15 and having farmed Lex Prime+Hydroid in 2 days, I dont need exp, rescources or credits. Once again there is nothing to do at all after just 2 days except watch a timer count down from 24h, then whoever clicks first gets to enter the clan battle (After watching another timer count down from 24h). In the end it will be 0% Tax Clan vs. 0% Tax Clan, pretty exiting. Even if they force clans to take 5% tax it will just be 5% vs 5% same thing. Regarding Melee 2.0: its a nice gimmick but there is still absolutely no reason to not fire your gun instead from a distance, being more safe and more effecient than getting close to enemies. Sorry for sounding so negativ but after waiting for U13 for weeks all it has to offer is a little content you can complete in a single day if you wanted to and more endless waiting to see the last bit of content which probablly wont be worth playing more than 1 day unless it offers some weapons/mods etc you can only get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LurkenLurker Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) Well the thing with the tax is if the tax is there to repair the rail just like when contesting it doing the invasion mission damages a rail. I am assuming that after the conflict every person that does the dark sector mission gets taxed and its that tax thats restores the rail to peak condition i am assuming. If a clan set the tax at 0 then there actually paving a way straight to the heart of there alliance for you to go and attack their clan vaults i am assuming if a clan sets its rail tax to 0% the rails takes it from the next best thing which is the Clan vaults just beat on the rail until it can't repair itself any more Edited April 12, 2014 by LurkenLurker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViLeDeth Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 UPKEEP. It was stated already, taxes are for upkeep . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketec Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 10% i quite a lot already - lets say u have 20000 players running it 5 times. Every run gets them 10k credits. That's 100m credits to the alliance/vault. Within just days the alliance/clan would have billions. Then when challenged by a new clan - they can easily set 1m rewards or even more. There is no way a new alliance or clan could provide competing rewards at this point. On top of that - there is like 20 solar rails? All in use already. 20 alliances of 4000 people = 80000 potential players who can control all the sectors. So where do the players for competing alliances come from at this point? The number of active players will concentrate to the alliances that already control something. Also with only 20ish nodes - its a matter of who clicks first to get to even compete in the fight of the sectors. Chances are most wont even get to try it - there never is any open spots available.Alliances should be smaller and more sectors that can randomly become available. Even sectors that wont show up on starmap and only in the solar rail room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnnaJReverT Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) 10% i quite a lot already - lets say u have 20000 players running it 5 times. Every run gets them 10k credits. That's 100m credits to the alliance/vault. Within just days the alliance/clan would have billions. Then when challenged by a new clan - they can easily set 1m rewards or even more. There is no way a new alliance or clan could provide competing rewards at this point. On top of that - there is like 20 solar rails? All in use already. 20 alliances of 4000 people = 80000 potential players who can control all the sectors. So where do the players for competing alliances come from at this point? The number of active players will concentrate to the alliances that already control something. Also with only 20ish nodes - its a matter of who clicks first to get to even compete in the fight of the sectors. Chances are most wont even get to try it - there never is any open spots available. Alliances should be smaller and more sectors that can randomly become available. Even sectors that wont show up on starmap and only in the solar rail room. i dearly hope they add a new "planet" or zone to the star-chart that consists of rails only behind the high-lvl planets, or maybe even more than one also, are the rails supposed to be the infestations new domain? far as i can tell, every rail-node is infestation... Edited April 12, 2014 by OnnaJReverT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LurkenLurker Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 When you do that kinda math just think of the sheer amount of people running the dark sector and if the tax really do go to the rails repair how much will the rail itself eat from your alliance vault to repair the dmg done to it after a conflict i am a assuming it takes a massive amount of credits resources to fix a rails if you're paying for it all from your alliance vault. Meaning the zero tax people are realy digging themselves a hole not taxing at least something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViLeDeth Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Sigh, you guys have proven reading comprehension tests are required to be on the forums... The taxes are for up keep and alliances are limited in size. When a rail is damaged, those taxes pay for up keep. Refer to intro video and tutorial in game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnnaJReverT Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Sigh, you guys have proven reading comprehension tests are required to be on the forums... The taxes are for up keep and alliances are limited in size. When a rail is damaged, those taxes pay for up keep. Refer to intro video and tutorial in game. rails cost 500k creds+ressources to be built, so i guess it's safe to assume they won't cost more to repair (per damage done, of course) if 10000 players run the rail with 10% tax and get 10k credits each, that's 10.000.000 credits for the clan vault, with actually quite low numbers considering there are only about 20 nodes for every warframe player the alliances are going to make money faster than attacks on the rail could possibly burn it (resources left aside) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerZeyCJ Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) I don't understand what the OP is complaining about. So what if there are tax free rails, that's good. The owner of the rail gets nothing out of it other than letting people get the new content for free. So what if it is only a couple of Alliances, holding a node does nothing other than that alliance being able to say "yeah, we control xyz, but we set the taxes to zero for everybody". Edited April 12, 2014 by JerZeyCJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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