Argon Crystal: Design Not Supportive Of Casual Play Styles

[Eric1738]

As for Oxium.... ran a Mobile Defense in Eris yesterday, snagged 66 of them. No Nekros.

 

The Oxium birds were 'everywhere'. Just have to hit the right missions I guess.

nekros doesnt help oxium farming. oxium osprey has no corpse.

----------------------------------

as for the topic, if farming 2 argon when u need it is hard or not casual for u, u should quit this game, now. it's not even close to grinding at all.

[ThePoopHunter]

i personally don't like the idea of this argon crap at all. even if it's not hard to deal with atm, i can imagine DE taking it too far and this thing getting annoying as hell.

i can imagine it now, some ridiculous warframe/wep that needs about 5 of multiple resources that all decay. ahhhhhhhhh it's scary to think about.
 

also a lot of you are being extreme douchebags to the OP, i don't think that's necessary.

and another thing @ all the people saying "oh! this game is all about grinding go play something else!" shut the F*** up, this game, just like any other game is about having fun (or at least it is to me, and probably OP as well). a little bit of grinding is okay, but when grinding gets in the way of having fun, then.... we have a problem.

[Tulzscha]

Moved to the proper section.

[letir]

as for the topic, if farming 2 argon when u need it is hard or not casual for u, u should quit this game, now. it's not even close to grinding at all.

It's hard enough if RNG don't like you, so shut up and "quit this game" yourself. I can understand completly random grind aka "nope, not this time", but random timed grind is unacceptable.

Edited April 14, 2014 by letir

[Nekriist]

I'll put in my vote for frustrated with Argon Crystals. Oxium is far better. Why?

 

1. You're forced to use a consumable key to farm it.

2. It's not hard to get. Seriously. Do a couple runs on Mimas. I have consistently brought in 40+ Oxium in a run. I have not had any consistency farming Argon.

3. The decay thing is just stupid.

 

Today I decided to farm Argon because I was ready to make my Nikana. 8 hours, over 15 keys (T1-T2, various mission types), and some clan runs in T1 defense (20-25 waves), and I wound up with four(Also note I had a resource drop chance booster). It's not, actually that easy to get. This is like the same thing is reading the wiki for any of the prime weapons or...most notably since U13, weapon stances. A bunch of people managed to get Tranquil Cleave in the first ten minutes of their first Cambria run, and a bunch of others have been farming for 24+ hours to get it to drop, or have had to go 30-40 minutes to get the mod.

 

For every one person that can walk into 1-2 void runs and walk out with enough Argon, there is at least one (If not more), that have to put in a crapton of time just to get one. It's the nature of RNG, but the addition of yet ANOTHER new resource + Void only + Extremely low drop chance + Stupid decay rate? Yeah. No. Orokin cells are easier to farm.

 

So.

 

Dear DE,

 

Stop it.

 

Sincerely,

 

I Hate Argon

 

P.S. No more Alloy Plates...please. Please?

 

Neurodes are easier to farm. I can't actually think of another resource I've had to spend so much time farming.

[GamingVirtue]

Tubercle1801, on 13 Apr 2014 - 7:21 PM, said:

OP brings up a valid point. There are people who just can't put in the time to 'farm' or 'grind' as you put it because they are playing a game for fun.

Some replies here are rather inconsiderate to the fact people play warframe for different reasons.

Furthermore, I totally agree that if nobody voice any concern about DE's initiative on making players farm for garbage over a set amount of time, they will take advantage of players in the future. Welcome to market capitalism and idiotic, yes-men players.

Your argument is invalid. I ran a single T1 survival key for 15 minutes and got 3 argon crystals. It wasn't hard at all. That's not the norm, but it's far from rare. And Warframe is inherently a grind game unless you pay or are stupidly good and/or lucky. It practically states that with "Ninjas Play Free". Play well enough, and you never pay for anything but cosmetics, which have no impact on gameplay. Play REALLY well and trade often, and you won't pay for the cosmetics, either.

If you play Warframe for different reasons, that's fine. Don't expect the game to pander to you, though. You're not the majority.

Furthermore, I don't agree at all with that final point. They're not making you farm for things over a set amount of time. They're giving you the option of doing a few quick missions for items that are rather common drops, and that's not taking advantage of the players at all. That's expecting players to overcome a simple challenge and play the game for 30 minutes or so. Welcome to Standard Gameplay. That's how it works. And, "idiotic, yes-men players"? That's CLEARLY not inconsiderate at all.

Nekriist, on 14 Apr 2014 - 01:58 AM, said:

I'll put in my vote for frustrated with Argon Crystals. Oxium is far better. Why?

1. You're forced to use a consumable key to farm it.

2. It's not hard to get. Seriously. Do a couple runs on Mimas. I have consistently brought in 40+ Oxium in a run. I have not had any consistency farming Argon.

3. The decay thing is just stupid.

Today I decided to farm Argon because I was ready to make my Nikana. 8 hours, over 15 keys (T1-T2, various mission types), and some clan runs in T1 defense (20-25 waves), and I wound up with four(Also note I had a resource drop chance booster). It's not, actually that easy to get. This is like the same thing is reading the wiki for any of the prime weapons or...most notably since U13, weapon stances. A bunch of people managed to get Tranquil Cleave in the first ten minutes of their first Cambria run, and a bunch of others have been farming for 24+ hours to get it to drop, or have had to go 30-40 minutes to get the mod.

For every one person that can walk into 1-2 void runs and walk out with enough Argon, there is at least one (If not more), that have to put in a crapton of time just to get one. It's the nature of RNG, but the addition of yet ANOTHER new resource + Void only + Extremely low drop chance + Stupid decay rate? Yeah. No. Orokin cells are easier to farm.

So.

Dear DE,

Stop it.

Sincerely,

I Hate Argon

P.S. No more Alloy Plates...please. Please?

Neurodes are easier to farm. I can't actually think of another resource I've had to spend so much time farming.

Simple solution to the key problem: do a 15-minute run on Apollodorus. 15 minutes in a non-Void/Derelict survival mission guarantee a key.

Edited April 14, 2014 by VirtuousVortex

[neKroMancer]

Argon crystal is DE's reaction for resource stockpiling. Whatever DE can present in the market as BP or as clan research, players usually have enough resource to start the crafting/researching right away.

While giving a time limit on resource is one way to remedy this symptom, it doesn't cure the cause. We don't have enough things to craft and crafting isn't working as intended, a credit/resource dump. Crafting needs to play a bigger in the game, more consumable, more booster, etc.

Argon crystal, while nothing bad as of now, can deteriorate the farming problem if it's not used in moderation.

[ThePoopHunter]

Your argument is invalid. I ran a single T1 survival key for 15 minutes and got 3 argon crystals.

Your argument is invalid. It's RNG. I got the entire Brakk set from two spawns of the G3. If you ran a single T1 and got 3, you can be damn sure someone else ran 50 T3s and got 0.

 

RNG + Decaying crap = recipe for disaster

Edited April 14, 2014 by ThePoopHunter

[Tubercle1801]

Your argument is invalid. I ran a single T1 survival key for 15 minutes and got 3 argon crystals. It wasn't hard at all. That's not the norm, but it's far from rare. And Warframe is inherently a grind game unless you pay or are stupidly good and/or lucky. It practically states that with "Ninjas Play Free". Play well enough, and you never pay for anything but cosmetics, which have no impact on gameplay. Play REALLY well and trade often, and you won't pay for the cosmetics, either.

 

If you play Warframe for different reasons, that's fine. Don't expect the game to pander to you, though. You're not the majority.

 

Furthermore, I don't agree at all with that final point. They're not making you farm for things over a set amount of time. They're giving you the option of doing a few quick missions for items that are rather common drops, and that's not taking advantage of the players at all. That's expecting players to overcome a simple challenge and play the game for 30 minutes or so. Welcome to Standard Gameplay. That's how it works. And, "idiotic, yes-men players"? That's CLEARLY not inconsiderate at all.

 

Anyhow, I'm done here.

Yah, I guess you want a gold star for being lucky with a mission, oh wait, you mentioned luck. There was no request for pandering, just pointing out how dumb the new decay mechanic is and how it can snowball out of control in future. Actually, I have no idea which point you are so worked up over?

 

Giving you a time limit to acquire sufficient resourses is making you farm the materials over a set period of time (ie 1 day). I would concede that it might not be a problem now but they will come out with items needing a lot more argon crystals.

 

As for yes men idiots, just look at most the posts everytime after DE posts an update/hotfix.

[ScribbleClash]

3 Argon Crystals with a Nekros on 10 waves in T1 Tower. Nuff said.

 

Honestly if you really gonna extend casual to "I don't have the time..." then where will it end?

Casual means that without any skill you can 'beat' a game. And honestly, two of the Hydroid parts need 2 Argon Crystals each. Yes it's a bother to get them, but it isn't as bad as depicted by some here.

I even got 9 of them at the moment and I don't even know where from.

[PeterKha]

It is a terrible system. That and the massive amount of Oxium, which drops in 1-2 per pickup on a fairly rare enemy make it seem like DE is moving a bit further towards the P2W style, which people tend not to want.

Oxium is easy to get. Mimas, you can rack up 50+ depending how long you go for.

 

Also with Argon, it seems to be consistent for me. Every time I need a few Argon Crystals, I do a void survival and I end up having enough or I do a couple. I always end up with about 2 - 4 per run, I thought it was like that for everyone but seems not.

[GamingVirtue]

Your argument is invalid. It's RNG. I got the entire Brakk set from two spawns of the G3. If you ran a single T1 and got 3, you can be damn sure someone else ran 50 T3s and got 0.

 

RNG + Decaying crap = recipe for disaster

 

I can be sure, huh? Alright. Have fun with that. That's a consistency unlike RNGs, but alright...also, if you're playing T3s instead of T1s for argon crystals, I wanna think you're doing it for more than just the argon...there's no reason to play that high of a level specifically for argon...

 

Yah, I guess you want a gold star for being lucky with a mission, oh wait, you mentioned luck. There was no request for pandering, just pointing out how dumb the new decay mechanic is and how it can snowball out of control in future. Actually, I have no idea which point you are so worked up over?

 

Giving you a time limit to acquire sufficient resourses is making you farm the materials over a set period of time (ie 1 day). I would concede that it might not be a problem now but they will come out with items needing a lot more argon crystals.

 

As for yes men idiots, just look at most the posts everytime after DE posts an update/hotfix.

 

Because people are happy there's an update or a hotfix? Okay...

 

Also, once again: if you don't want to grind, play a game that's actually designed for casual play or pay for platinum. Expecting all games to conform to a gameplay model supporting every kind of play ends up with a really S#&$ty game, and this game doesn't lend itself well to casual play specifically due to how it's been set up from the start. If you play casually, you're not going to be set up properly to run these missions like more hardcore players.

 

Primary example: I can run T3 captures in under 7 minutes. I've played this game 380+ hours since I got into it about a year ago. I can handle Lephantis with a single partner. You want things to be easier and go faster, then play more or find a game designed for casual play. It's not the developer's fault that you have poor luck and play very little.

[HexCaliber]

I have said this in other threads of late, the grind is part of the free to play model, it is a necessary evil, it is there by design to extend the life expectancy of the game. The longer a customer sticks with the title, the more money they are likely to spend. I realise free to play is not quite as common place in the console market, but the grind is one of the caveats you have to accept when you play a free to play title.

[Liminal]

Guys please stop defending the fact that Warframe is "a grind game". That's not something a game should aspire to be. It's a problem.

[Valafor]

What r u? Casul? 

 

In all seriousness though, I agree. For some reason I feel that these Argon Crystals are way too rare and last way too short. I mean, I come back the next day and all my Crystals Argon.

[BerelHawdos]

I got 4 in 2 hours soloing back to back T3 survivals.

[GamingVirtue]

Guys please stop defending the fact that Warframe is "a grind game". That's not something a game should aspire to be. It's a problem.

 

It's not something the game is aspiring to be. It's simply something that is necessary for this model: if everything is easy to get, there's no incentive to spend money on Platinum. Without this incentive of "quick access" from buying plat, there's no reason to buy plat at all, because cosmetics aren't needed and can't be leveled, so they contribute nothing to actual gameplay.

 

What needs to stop being defended is this assumption that games should be simple for all players. If it were that simple, there would be no reason for hardcore players to play it, because it would be boring. Simply because you don't have the time to grind or don't wish to spend the time you have doing so does not mean that it's a bad design. It means that you're willing to complain about one of two things: your life or your decisions. Neither are relevant to the game.

[Tubercle1801]

I can be sure, huh? Alright. Have fun with that. That's a consistency unlike RNGs, but alright...also, if you're playing T3s instead of T1s for argon crystals, I wanna think you're doing it for more than just the argon...there's no reason to play that high of a level specifically for argon...

 

 

Because people are happy there's an update or a hotfix? Okay...

 

Also, once again: if you don't want to grind, play a game that's actually designed for casual play or pay for platinum. Expecting all games to conform to a gameplay model supporting every kind of play ends up with a really S#&$ty game, and this game doesn't lend itself well to casual play specifically due to how it's been set up from the start. If you play casually, you're not going to be set up properly to run these missions like more hardcore players.

 

Primary example: I can run T3 captures in under 7 minutes. I've played this game 380+ hours since I got into it about a year ago. I can handle Lephantis with a single partner. You want things to be easier and go faster, then play more or find a game designed for casual play. It's not the developer's fault that you have poor luck and play very little.

This is a classic case of everyone is like you, oh wait. No, they are not. Shocker. This thread with you is beginning to sound like a bragging announcement about how awesome you can play this game and how everyone should play this game like you.

 

Grinding is fine in reasonable amounts. Lephantis is fine, some concerns with vay hek but argon crystals are ridiculous with the time limits.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Tubercle1801

[Liminal]

It's not something the game is aspiring to be. It's simply something that is necessary for this model

No, that's conformism. The devs should try their hardest to make the grind feel as if it wasn't there. The best grind is the one the players don't even notice.

[CrimsonPorpoise]

Tried another few round of Void Survivals. Nope. Only one Argon Crystal until the timer resets, because RNG. This is the forth time already...

[GamingVirtue]

This is a classic case of everyone is like you, oh wait. No, they are not. Shocker. This thread with you is beginning to sound like a bragging announcement about how awesome you can play this game and how everyone should play this game like you.

 

Grinding is fine in reasonable amounts. Lephantis is fine, some concerns with vay hek but argon crystals are ridiculous with the time limits.

 

Argon crystals have a time limit of one day before breaking down. You can inject them into the blueprint research and solve that problem, and only actively work to try and get them when you have the blueprints and other required materials in the case of blueprints.

 

The time limits aren't a problem if you're not trying to hoard materials. Also, I'm not trying to brag. I'm simply pointing out that it's not hard to do things in this game if you dedicate more than half an hour to it. I simply play more than you do, apparently, and therefore have more chances to actually accomplish things. Once again, this game wasn't established for the casual crowd.

 

No, that's conformism. The devs should try their hardest to make the grind feel as if it wasn't there. The best grind is the one the players don't even notice.

 

I'm assuming you ignored the part where I mentioned platinum? You know, that way that they make money? You know, the reason for there to be a noticeable grind so that they can make platinum look more favourable? I knew gamers were entitled little s#!ts, but you people...wow...

 

You have to run four or five missions. What a hardship. Seriously, I'm nowhere near the best at this game. I just realise that, within this kind of game, there will be a noticeable grind specifically because the developers have to make money somehow and they do it by giving players a paid way to avoid the grind.

Edited April 14, 2014 by VirtuousVortex

[Liminal]

I'm assuming you ignored the part where I mentioned platinum? You know, that way that they make money? You know, the reason for there to be a noticeable grind so that they can make platinum look more favourable? I knew gamers were entitled little s#!ts, but you people...wow...

 

You have to run four or five missions. What a hardship. Seriously, I'm nowhere near the best at this game. I just realise that, within this kind of game, there will be a noticeable grind specifically because the developers have to make money somehow and they do it by giving players a paid way to avoid the grind.

I'm not talking about Argon specifically. But if you deny the game is excessively grindy you must enjoy suffering.

The plat shop doesn't justify running hundreds of missions without seeing any progress whatsoever. The gameplay itself should feel more like a reward, since rewards are so sporadic.

Edited April 14, 2014 by The_Doc

[GamingVirtue]

I'm not talking about Argon specifically. But if you deny the game is excessively grindy you must enjoy suffering.

The plat shop doesn't justify running hundreds of missions without seeing any progress whatsoever. The gameplay itself should feel more like a reward, since rewards are so sporadic.

 

I won't disagree with that. I ran Tyl Regor over 70 times before I got an Ash Systems blueprint. But I'm not going to blame the game simply due to that because I haven't had luck that bad but just a few other places. It's just down to whether the RNG is gonna be a jerk or not at the time. If it's not working out, give it a few hours and come back.

 

The only gripes I actually have with the game are Oxpreys and Prosecutors. The former spawn infrequently and enjoy blowing up to rob you of the very little Oxium they drop, and the Prosecutors just barely show up at all from what I've seen.

 

Otherwise, there are a few times the RNG is a jerk and that's the end of it. It's really not that excessively grindy, especially with the addition of solar rails. Ran a few Jupiter conflict missions and got like, 8 neural sensors out of them. I'm not going to assume that's normal, but it certainly was consistent over the 5 runs.

 

Also, I've looked it over and you need, like, 8 crystals at maximum, which can be earned relatively quickly (I say relatively as RNG is sometimes to blame), and their timer resets on earning another crystal (as far as I've seen), so I don't get the argument put forth in this thread initially.

[Axterix13]

Also, I've looked it over and you need, like, 8 crystals at maximum, which can be earned relatively quickly (I say relatively as RNG is sometimes to blame), and their timer resets on earning another crystal (as far as I've seen), so I don't get the argument put forth in this thread initially.

And it isn't even eight really, since all that really matters is getting enough to make what you're currently working on.

 

That said, I can see how two would be frustrating for a casual player.  You get one in your playtime, then you log off and don't play again for a couple of days, and you're back at zero.  For casuals, it would probably be better if the crystals had a half-life of four hours on-line, as opposed to a longer one that ticks away whether you are on or off.

[timesickGallivanter]

One 30-minutes long Tower Survival run can give you 2-3 Argon Crystals. There's currently no weapon/part that requires more than that. I don't really se an issue here.

...if you're lucky. If you're everyone else, 50 minute survivals give you nothing, and 6 hours in the void over the course of the week gives you one crystal that disappeared by Sunday.