Health And Hp Needs Balancing After The Last Hotfix

[CaligoIllioneus]

This thread is depressing. I play the game because I want to wreck faces. If I want a challenge I'll go play chess.

How does your extremely personal, escapist reason for playing the game relate to the current topic, and how does it serve as at least a mildly developed argument?

Anyways:

Queen OP, please nerf.

P.S.: Isn't it more fulfilling when you need at least a grain of effort to "wreck faces"?

Edited April 1, 2013 by CaligoIllioneus

[guymanbrodude]

update 7.6 just made the frames even closer to gods, i don't get it why you need so much shields and health in the game, when its already so easy to clear

Easy to clear for you, nearly impossible for others. Let the devs find a middle-ground and don't expect them to bring everything to a level that only you like. You have to think about the majority of players, and those are the ones who do favour the passive upgrades. At least it's not even nearly as bad as pre7.5...there were people who truly were invincible because, you know...5k shields and stuff.

[Jokyma]

Easy to clear for you, nearly impossible for others. Let the devs find a middle-ground and don't expect them to bring everything to a level that only you like. You have to think about the majority of players, and those are the ones who do favour the passive upgrades. At least it's not even nearly as bad as pre7.5...there were people who truly were invincible because, you know...5k shields and stuff.

i understand that some players can't clear maps and stuff but having maxed out shield and what?! 5k shields? its totally god mode on, what i want to see the game changes is in the middle where its suitable for everyone from begginers to experts players, like maximum at least a 450 shields? as a eg.

[Jokyma]

and i really love this game or i would't even complain about it i gave lots of suggestion to it about maps and stuff, when i contribute its only when i enjoy the game and come on why would i want to spoil a game i play?

[CaligoIllioneus]

Easy to clear for you, nearly impossible for others. Let the devs find a middle-ground and don't expect them to bring everything to a level that only you like. You have to think about the majority of players, and those are the ones who do favour the passive upgrades. At least it's not even nearly as bad as pre7.5...there were people who truly were invincible because, you know...5k shields and stuff.

The devs will find a middle ground not only through their own wisdom, but through our observations. Us, beta testers.

You're invoking some ellusive "majority of players" that we're not seeing. Also, we're not some sort of elitist group of extremely skilled Warframe players.

Also, I have yet to see someone not favoring passive upgrades. What I and others are saying is that they went overboard with the numbers. Please read the posts here more closely.

Also, think a little...won't that "don't expect them to bring everything to a level that only you like" apply to you as well?

By the way, yes, we should speak about what we like and dislike. That's one of the main points of a beta. It's what we call feedback.

Edited April 2, 2013 by CaligoIllioneus

[Dasmir]

Why not be challenged and wreck faces?

Becouse people are lazy

Theres the logic of the 90% of the community

"Hurr you dont like broken things ? Durrrrrrrr ! then leave my game and let me enjoy it !"

-What is the point of playing with random partys when everyone is going to play alone now.

-What is the point of having frames with diferent roles when everyone are tanks now.

-What is the point of being a GODLIKE and just hold left-click.

Imba im going to get flammed.

[guymanbrodude]

450 Shields Max. That's a suggestion most players could live with. The problem then would be how to balance passive upgrades and mods to make that possible. I say, leave it to the Devs, they've done a great job so far, and they'll do a great job in the future. Just have patience - we don't want 5k shields back, and neither do we want 7.5-instakills back.

[CaligoIllioneus]

Becouse people are lazy

Theres the logic of the 90% of the community

"Hurr you dont like broken things ? Durrrrrrrr ! then leave my game and let me enjoy it !"

-What is the point of playing with random partys when everyone is going to play alone now.

-What is the point of having frames with diferent roles when everyone are tanks now.

-What is the point of being a GODLIKE and just hold left-click.

Imba im going to get flammed.

I'm not going to flame you, but I don't agree...with just one thing. I don't think 90% of the community is like that. Just a select few.

[Jokyma]

Becouse people are lazy

Theres the logic of the 90% of the community

"Hurr you dont like broken things ? Durrrrrrrr ! then leave my game and let me enjoy it !"

-What is the point of playing with random partys when everyone is going to play alone now.

-What is the point of having frames with diferent roles when everyone are tanks now.

-What is the point of being a GODLIKE and just hold left-click.

Imba im going to get flammed.

agreed and some people just can't see that warframe needs reworked on

[Jokyma]

450 Shields Max. That's a suggestion most players could live with. The problem then would be how to balance passive upgrades and mods to make that possible. I say, leave it to the Devs, they've done a great job so far, and they'll do a great job in the future. Just have patience - we don't want 5k shields back, and neither do we want 7.5-instakills back.

they indeed did a great job for the game and they progress, i hope they listen to the voices of the players. because we are the main players not them, it goes the same for "government should be afraid of their civillians not civillians being afraid of the government - Vendetta"

[Apinaheebo]

I hope it was just an April Fool's joke.

[Jokyma]

I hope it was just an April Fool's joke.

its never a joke to begin with, we are discussing about the game. as you reach a certain level of the game you will understand how overpowered the frames are

[CaligoIllioneus]

I think he's talking about the patch being an April Fool's joke, not the forum thread.

[Jokyma]

i would't think they will do such a joke about the game, i really tried they did change the passive health and shield

[MJ12]

Becouse people are lazy

Theres the logic of the 90% of the community

"Hurr you dont like broken things ? Durrrrrrrr ! then leave my game and let me enjoy it !"

-What is the point of playing with random partys when everyone is going to play alone now.

-What is the point of having frames with diferent roles when everyone are tanks now.

-What is the point of being a GODLIKE and just hold left-click.

Imba im going to get flammed.

Oh wow because people aren't so good and need the additional health/shields to have fun at higher-difficulty environments they're lazy? Elitism at work, people. Also clearly the game shouldn't be balanced for Solo even though it actually has a dedicated Solo mode. Nevermind that Solo players are just as likely to invest Platinum and that playing co-op gets you more drops period.

Yes, the numbers are high if Redirection and Vitality stay the same. If you nerfed Redirection and Vitality into giving +10% shields/health a level (a fairly simple change) you'd get the previous numbers more or less back. If you don't understand why the numbers are where they are, well, you can now play endgame content without being practically required to run a shield/health mod. That's why they're at where they are.

they indeed did a great job for the game and they progress, i hope they listen to the voices of the players. because we are the main players not them, it goes the same for "government should be afraid of their civillians not civillians being afraid of the government - Vendetta"

No, you are not. You are a tiny fraction of the playerbase who demands everyone else cater to you and your need for validation because you can't stand the idea of ~casuals~ being able to have fun in this game. That's true in general. ~Pro Gamers~ like you who play on the absolute hardest difficulty mode are largely an irrelevance which games never are balanced around yet do just fine. DE could completely blow you off and they'd be fine, they don't need guys like you.

So stop being so entitled.

[FrostWolf]

1) Agreed.

2) No. It implies that the game was already easy pre-update (with no redirection in my case, mind you) due to the enemy threat level, as you say...but it just got worse, since now I can do the same things several times better due to every frame -no matter if its tankish, caster, stealth, support or whatever, and regardless of build- becoming a bullet sponge, even without HP and shield mods.

3) I agree, but currently like I said before it doesn't matter if all the Grineers, Corpus and Infested become master tacticians because not only do they die by the thousands but we can soak so much gunfire. Also, what can their AI do to increase their difficulty so much? Take cover? I will simply walk up to them and gun them down.

Form a circle of shield Grineers, filling it with 20 Grinders and a Grineer Commander in the middle waiting to Switch Teleport you? Perhaps.

The Simple answer is the enemies Damage needs a massive scale in power.

That's how it works in Gold on ME3

Hell anything above Silver your shield number is pretty much pointless cause everything will rip through them, a Basic grunt can kill your tank if he gets the drop on him.

[CaligoIllioneus]

Oh wow because people aren't so good and need the additional health/shields to have fun at higher-difficulty environments they're lazy? Elitism at work, people. Also clearly the game shouldn't be balanced for Solo even though it actually has a dedicated Solo mode. Nevermind that Solo players are just as likely to invest Platinum and that playing co-op gets you more drops period.

Yes, the numbers are high if Redirection and Vitality stay the same. If you nerfed Redirection and Vitality into giving +10% shields/health a level (a fairly simple change) you'd get the previous numbers more or less back. If you don't understand why the numbers are where they are, well, you can now play endgame content without being practically required to run a shield/health mod. That's why they're at where they are.

No, you are not. You are a tiny fraction of the playerbase who demands everyone else cater to you and your need for validation because you can't stand the idea of ~casuals~ being able to have fun in this game. That's true in general. ~Pro Gamers~ like you who play on the absolute hardest difficulty mode are largely an irrelevance which games never are balanced around yet do just fine. DE could completely blow you off and they'd be fine, they don't need guys like you.

So stop being so entitled.

Entitled, casuals, pros....ahhh these words. Does your kind get mass produced somewhere? I wasn't seeing many of them in Warframe, sad to see the first one.

How are you inventing that we're an elite of super players and that we don't want the silent majority of casual sheep to be able to enjoy the game? I don't know.

If you checked the forums you'd see that the majority of players in fact things that the numbers swayed too much in the wrong direction.

Also, how are you inventing that we are against shields/HP upgrading per level? I love that change.

What we're against is the amount of shields and HP you get. I said this before, but please actually read the posts instead of skimming over them.

You're the one rushing to conclusions about who is the majority and the useless minority (which obviously is "your side" and "the ones complaining", respectively) and telling us that we can't complain about something. I repeat, you're concluding that we're useless for the game and that we can't give feedback about something and you call us entitled?

Please don't muddle the thread with flame bait.

Edited April 2, 2013 by CaligoIllioneus

[Jokyma]

Oh wow because people aren't so good and need the additional health/shields to have fun at higher-difficulty environments they're lazy? Elitism at work, people. Also clearly the game shouldn't be balanced for Solo even though it actually has a dedicated Solo mode. Nevermind that Solo players are just as likely to invest Platinum and that playing co-op gets you more drops period.

Yes, the numbers are high if Redirection and Vitality stay the same. If you nerfed Redirection and Vitality into giving +10% shields/health a level (a fairly simple change) you'd get the previous numbers more or less back. If you don't understand why the numbers are where they are, well, you can now play endgame content without being practically required to run a shield/health mod. That's why they're at where they are.

No, you are not. You are a tiny fraction of the playerbase who demands everyone else cater to you and your need for validation because you can't stand the idea of ~casuals~ being able to have fun in this game. That's true in general. ~Pro Gamers~ like you who play on the absolute hardest difficulty mode are largely an irrelevance which games never are balanced around yet do just fine. DE could completely blow you off and they'd be fine, they don't need guys like you.

So stop being so entitled.

just like how caligolllioneus said, aren't you the same? you want the game your way just that you are denying my pov betas are where players comes in and give suggestions to make it balanced, did i ever said how i wanted the game to be? all im giving is my opinion and suggestions, stop pin point fingers you are the type of players people hate for being cocky and self declaring. let me tell you this game is now over powered as we all know all we hope for is it to be more balanced. how is it fun when you tank every bullet you see? it might be fun for you not me thats my view and not everyone has the same ideas as you

CaligoIllioneus

[neKroMancer]

I like this hotfix simply because I can remove these two mods from my builds and replace them with something more useful like flow/continuity/rush/marathon and it paves way for a more diverse build in the future with introduction of more mods. However, the problem is this update makes everyone quite hard to kill with this much durability.

When DE retire the current set of redirection and vitality and introduce more advanced enemies in higher level stage, things should be more balanced.

[f3llyn]

How does your extremely personal, escapist reason for playing the game relate to the current topic, and how does it serve as at least a mildly developed argument?

Anyways:

Queen OP, please nerf.

P.S.: Isn't it more fulfilling when you need at least a grain of effort to "wreck faces"?

I thought we were all stating reasons why we played the game. The one guy wants to actually be a space ninja, others don't. I play the game to kill things and have fun.

Perhaps I could have worded my post better and said "when I think of challenging games this isn't the first game that comes to mind". I never considered it challenging before the passives were put in so nothing has really changed.

[LordLokai]

I didn't like how things were before: I was having a lot of trouble getting Redirection, and having 150 shields in the harder missions sucked. Anyways it was doable with some work.

Now I have 450 shields...what? These inflated numbers need to go. What is the point of tank-ish warframes if every player is a bullet sponge?

The game was already quite easy, but now it's silly.

Please tone down this stat scaling and remove Vitality / Redirection.

Energy capacity is fine, but now I would make energy orbs rarer to balance things out.

i have... 690 shields and about 500 health on my rhino with 40% armor boost and can safely say because shields have zero mitigation on them from armor they last about 2 seconds vs greenier if i get focused by a couple of people...basically your complaint is that we have to much health... i disagree i find extra shields and health are all that keeps me from being mowed down when the 30 or 40 troops decide to spawn in the same location...

Event with boost to shields and health i still feel like my shields die in seconds...and my health can be chewed through pretty fasy especially when you can be switch teleported into a situation where its 10-20 on 1... just my observations... but i think new change was a god send... even with vit/redirect... i dont feel that much more survivable then before... if anything needs looked at its fact that shields are so easily ripped through by enemies.

[FrostWolf]

I like this hotfix simply because I can remove these two mods from my builds and replace them with something more useful like flow/continuity/rush/marathon and it paves way for a more diverse build in the future with introduction of more mods. However, the problem is this update makes everyone quite hard to kill with this much durability.

When DE retire the current set of redirection and vitality and introduce more advanced enemies in higher level stage, things should be more balanced.

QFFT

Hotfixes tend to have issues... let the Devs work it out.

Kneejerking and Backbiting isn't helping anybody.

[Jokyma]

i have... 690 shields and about 500 health on my rhino with 40% armor boost and can safely say because shields have zero mitigation on them from armor they last about 2 seconds vs greenier if i get focused by a couple of people...basically your complaint is that we have to much health... i disagree i find extra shields and health are all that keeps me from being mowed down when the 30 or 40 troops decide to spawn in the same location...

Event with boost to shields and health i still feel like my shields die in seconds...and my health can be chewed through pretty fasy especially when you can be switch teleported into a situation where its 10-20 on 1... just my observations... but i think new change was a god send... even with vit/redirect... i dont feel that much more survivable then before... if anything needs looked at its fact that shields are so easily ripped through by enemies.

i believe its the way you play the game, its either you open yourself too much or you rush towards enemy thats why your shield dry fast, i would suggest taking covers and shoot them in the face, i dont use redirection myself anymore but i don't see the problem that my frame die fast, its probably the way you play the game in my opinion

[Cakes]

I'll give DE until Update 8 to see what adjustments are made to the shield/health system. (aka all the hotfixes until then)

Otherwise I intend to max out a pair of shield/health mods and just facetank from then on. Take cover? I AM COVER.

Edited April 2, 2013 by Cakes

[f3llyn]

QFFT

Hotfixes tend to have issues... let the Devs work it out.

Kneejerking and Backbiting isn't helping anybody.

They said that was the gameplan, too. But if you have to react at all you may as well over react.