Are Nekros/nova/trinity Irreplaceable?

[Kasseopea]

Well, stumbled upon the "Whats your most hated Warframe" thread and thought to ask the question here.

 

First off - its not about hating, its about trying to understand. And ofcourse im talking about high level areas and stuff that drops rarely. Not about managing it somehow through the first mission on Mercury.

 

Let me explain:

 

Nova doubles the damage, halves the speed of enemies with her ultimate and allows for teleports into difficult to reach locations like secret chambers in the Void, especially those where you have to be fast or dodge the lasers precisely.

 

Nekros lets the enemies drop more. More life support, more orbs, more mods, more ammo. Basically reassuring that you can survive endlessly, as long as you deal enough damage (Nova) and survive the hits (Trinity) all while getting better rewards.

 

Trinity makes you invincible. You are in a survival and the air ran out? Np, she will just make you completely untouchable for half a minute. Take your sweet time and walk casually to the exit. She also can supply you with energy. Because why not.

 

Now, why should a team consist out of anything but those 3 when going for really high leveled areas? Logically, not "Because it would be boring". Lets say we would have some robots who would like to play efficient, without "wasting" time.

 

Personally i feel a little forced into Nekros, if i want to farm stuff myself.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Kasseopea

[ZephyrPhantom]

If you properly mod them, you'll find a smart Saryn, Oberon, and Ember can outkill a Nova mindlessly spamming M Prime... of course, if they work together, that's even better. Same for a Loki/Zephyr/Valkyr vs Wormhole for maneuverability. Sometimes M Prime even has some undesired effects like faster dissolving corpses or slowing enemies on the edge of a Defense map down that make Nova less useful, but AoE nuke frames like the ones I mentioned better.

 

What Nekros and Trinity do is what sets them apart from the other frames, each with a catch - Nekros can only last so long as he doesn't die, and Trinity can only last so long as she can keep reliably dealing damage. (It just so happens that the game is heavily RNG-based and has quite a few very strong endgame weapons, allowing players to cover for these weaknesses quite well.) If Trinity only had normal healing, she'd just be another Oberon.

 

Overall, it's not about what the frame has, it's about how you use the frame.

Edited April 15, 2014 by ZephyrPhantom

[PsychedelicSnake]

You can play efficiently with any frame setup. The real question is how easy you want to make it on yourself; how much of a walk in the park you want it to be. If you want it to be so easy you can walk away from half an hour, you go with the set-up you mentioned. If you want a bit more of a challenge and, yes, some more fun, you go against the established norm and see if you can make it.

[Sedant]

Nova and Trinity are easily not required. Nekros for high wave survivals and any desire for extra loot is a must. With melee 2.0 the are plenty of options other then Trinity to keep you going, Zephyr or Valkyr are nearly invincible if built right. And Nova is just a nuisance especially in higher waves where Molecular Prime is used only for utility and slowing targets down. Experiment and try other frames out, getting old always seeing the same frames time and time again.

[GluttonyFang]

You can even add a CC frame (Nyx) in to complete the formula, but yes, to play effectively, these three are essential in high level.

[Overkill.]

rhino

stomp tempraly cc all enermy for certain amount of time for rush mission

loki

invisible can assasinate and capture target before they realize he there and he fast

vauban

god in infested defend

saryn

fast disinterate enermy

volt

max range aoe good for wiping out low lvl zone farming.

mag

i like the pull he got good range also the bulet attractor is amusing

frost

...well he sux atm cause the nerf but the globe still usable at lower lvl

oberon

good for fast clear on low lvl farming got self healing can be use like saryn but diferent type dmg

valk

good for trolling XD and invincible wit meelee dmg can solo lot of boss if u mod her right

ember

very good for clearing exterminate i dont have to go look for stupid stuck mob

nyx

good atm since frost shield cant handle alot of heat anymore absorb ... kick all asses

chaos good for defend add loki disarm and watch them slap stick eachother

i forget any frame?

dont know about the hydroid yet havent tested him yet

 

so for verry high lvl zone i just tosh a vortex (vauban) while loki disarm everything and just throw some nuke in the fray like ogris/penta with rhino roar gime 100% dmg

 

or nyx absorb with loki disarm again well kaboom all dead

Edited April 15, 2014 by Overkill.

[azour]

I only care about fun

Im not one of the min/max guys that use +5 chaos Zwei,yeah im a casul

I main Excalibur just for the hell of it and my radial blind  saved quite some asses

Super jump out of the crowd you're fighting against,slash dash toward downed teammate and radial blind.

Perfect hero combo.

 

But yeah,those are perfect high level frames that are enough to go trough everything in the game.

[PsychedelicSnake]

dont know about the hydroid yet havent tested him yet

Godlike CC

[CryoClaw]

I agree those 3 frames are just pure awesomeness

Especially nekros.

Man... Whenever I see a nekros joining my lobby I'm all like AWWW YISS! I CAN SPAM EVERYTHING!

And today my own nekros came fresh out of the foundry :D

[-Pearl-]

Nekros is fine. He is great for the high level survival as he gets us the life things.

 

Trinity is borderline essential for high level survival cause of obvious reasons.

 

Nova is a pathetic excuse for a character. She's not needed. High level, I'd take a warcry-focused valkyr over her. Hell, I'd take anybody over Nova. Every frame can be just as good if not better than her in multiple ways both in terms of base powers and CC powers.

[tactical_surgeon]

I can't disagree with you 

but on the same train of thought, why doesn't everyone use the Soma, penta or supra ?   
Well, easy~ it's not about DPS - it's about all it's parts, it's damage, fire rate, accuracy etc 

With Warframes, it's not about Nova being the strongest AOE, and Trinity being ( well the only healer....I barely think Oberon counts...) and Nekros having good looting skills 
It's that all of them are squishy, and can get downed quickly in the late game.    You know ?  They might have a very good positive ability but they're suvivability is adversely effected - Trinity has no real offensive so she's got great defense 

Balance, that team would die and the trinity would have a hard time keeping everyone alive due to the lack of tankier frames // she needs energy to keep hr self alive in late game // 

 

[16Bitman]

Why is no one ever mentioning Antimatter Drop when they talk about Nova?

It's easily the strongest ability in the game.

 

"Creates a volatile orb of antimatter which is steered with the aiming-reticle after being created. This particle absorbs all damage (friendly and hostile) when shot at, and once contacting a solid object it will detonate for 100 base damage + 100% / 200% / 300% / 400% of all absorbed damage with an explosion radius of 5 / 8 / 10 / 15 meters."

 

"Damage can be absorbed from other Antimatter Drop explosions and the damage multiplier is applied to the absorbed damage again: resulting in an exponential gain."

 

 

That way you clear rooms easily with just a few AMDs without ruining the fun of your Nekros.

[tactical_surgeon]

I only care about fun

Im not one of the min/max guys that use +5 chaos Zwei,yeah im a casul

I main Excalibur just for the hell of it and my radial blind  saved quite some asses

Super jump out of the crowd you're fighting against,slash dash toward downed teammate and radial blind.

Perfect hero combo.

 

But yeah,those are perfect high level frames that are enough to go trough everything in the game.

Praise the Lotus 

[Motakshi]

Nova is a pathetic excuse for a character. She's not needed. High level, I'd take a warcry-focused valkyr over her. Hell, I'd take anybody over Nova. Every frame can be just as good if not better than her in multiple ways both in terms of base powers and CC powers.

 

Her damage is not what's valuable.

 

 

200% damage increase and 50% speed decrease (in both movement and firing/attacking rate) are more potent of a crowd control ability than many frames could dream of even with extreme buffs.

 

 Trinity has no real offensive so she's got great defense 

 

 

 

Link + Penta gives Trinity amazing damage output as well, so saying that she has no offense is a little off.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Motakshi

[DeathWarmedOver]

did ODD with my hydroid yesterday...OMG what loot! just puddle trap them all, then the ones that don't drown mag crushes them & other frames penta/ogris them. was even nicer with a necros..he just multi looted the bunch all at the same time. works nice as long as you have enuff firepower/skills to kill multiple anchient healers at once. as far as other frames, I have them all & find them all usefull for team mixes and certain mission types.

 

As far as I'm concerned all frames are irreplaceable in what they do. could some frames use a beef/changes? sure...but each frame is unique, it's what I like about warframe, its the same reason why I keep ALL my frames.

Edited April 15, 2014 by DeathWarmedOver

[Kasseopea]

Im not one of the min/max guys that use +5 chaos Zwei,yeah im a casul

 

Obviously BKGS is much better, even if its not chaos.

 

 

I can't disagree with you 

but on the same train of thought, why doesn't everyone use the Soma, penta or supra ?  

Because people use Ogris and Boltor Prime aswell. But thats it, you wont see a match without at least one of those.

 

Trinity has low offensive, yes, but if you cant die, it doesnt really matter.

As for Nova - her debuff doubles the damage. Imagine there would be a frame that doubles your guns. Like it activates an ability and you hold 2 ogris or 4 Dex Furis or 2 Galatines. Thats what her ulti does, to the whole team. No other frame debuffs so hard. Also halves their speed, so melees cant keep up with you and ranged are easier to hit.

[tactical_surgeon]

Obviously BKGS is much better, even if its not chaos.

 

 

Because people use Ogris and Boltor Prime aswell. But thats it, you wont see a match without at least one of those.

 

Trinity has low offensive, yes, but if you cant die, it doesnt really matter.

As for Nova - her debuff doubles the damage. Imagine there would be a frame that doubles your guns. Like it activates an ability and you hold 2 ogris or 4 Dex Furis or 2 Galatines. Thats what her ulti does, to the whole team. No other frame debuffs so hard. Also halves their speed, so melees cant keep up with you and ranged are easier to hit.

Well, it's true, the utility of Mprime is so great there really isn't a reason not to, but then again the idea of mid / maxing in Warframe doesn't seem to important since no matter the team lineup the result will usually end in a win ~ 

I'd say if you're trying to push the limits of the game by say staying as long as possible in suvival or staying till wave 100 etc in def.   - you'd need a decked out team to do that.