Warframe Passives, Yay Or Nay?

[TunaMayo]

Just interested in people's opinions on whether or not warframes should have passives or not.

I'm not talking passives that make frames OP, more making frames unique and work around their weakest points.

One example that springs to mind is for Nekros, make desecrate a passive aura around the frame, freeing up the frame for a new power and potentially a rework.

[izzatuw]

Than does it give mod points? How would the desecrate work. Would we need two aura mods?

[Courina]

you want energy-free power eh? i see what you did there hee hee hee

 

and anyway, non power mod like redirection and aura mod like steel charge are pretty much passive too , right? especialy aura effecting entire party.

[Shanicus]

Well that's... kinda OP to begin with, if it's a passive aura. 'S a lot of extra ammo, Health Orbs, credits, Life support, mods...

If Warframes did have passives OUTSIDE pre-existing Aura slots (which are team-wide passives), it definitely couldn't be something that powerful - likewise, it can't really have some passive that's already occupied by the Auras. Small-scale passives like 'Ember - Resist Fire by 30%' or 'Valkyr - +20% melee damage against Corpus' would work much better.

[izzatuw]

you want energy-free power eh? i see what you did there hee hee hee

 

and anyway, non power mod like redirection and aura mod like steel charge are pretty much passive too , right? especialy aura effecting entire party.

I think Redirection is a stat mod. Since it effects the thing it's equipped on.

[izzatuw]

Well that's... kinda OP to begin with, if it's a passive aura. 'S a lot of extra ammo, Health Orbs, credits, Life support, mods...

If Warframes did have passives OUTSIDE pre-existing Aura slots (which are team-wide passives), it definitely couldn't be something that powerful - likewise, it can't really have some passive that's already occupied by the Auras. Small-scale passives like 'Ember - Resist Fire by 30%' or 'Valkyr - +20% melee damage against Corpus' would work much better.

Those passive ability recommendations were recommended long ago. Never popped up.

[HAYABU5A]

i like the idea of passives

 

elemental related passives to all the elemental frames themes or utility passives would be fun

very small aoe passive wouldnt be too overpowered ie; frost having a small aoe freeze around him, ember having a low damage burn aura etc 

[izzatuw]

Maybe

Nekros: XX% chance to desecrate enemy killed by player

[izzatuw]

i like the idea of passives

 

elemental related passives to all the elemental frames themes or utility passives would be fun

very small aoe passive wouldnt be too overpowered ie; frost having a small aoe freeze around him, ember having a low damage burn aura etc

Frosts' idea would totally kill off Coolant Leak wouldn't it?

[TunaMayo]

Than does it give mod points? How would the desecrate work. Would we need two aura mods?

  

It would be a passive that comes with the warframe. No equipping a mod required, similar to how helm stats are just there, a warframe passive would just be there.

you want energy-free power eh? i see what you did there hee hee hee

 

and anyway, non power mod like redirection and aura mod like steel charge are pretty much passive too , right? especialy aura effecting entire party.

Not really, desecrate is arguably the main use for nekros, so if you want to be useful to the team you have to spam the power to achieve that end. Making it a passive (with limited range) would mean that the frame would be free to use as the player desired, aswell as allowing for another power to be designed for the frame.

In response to your comment about auras, those are team wide auras that you choose for a specific faction. Warframe passives would make a frame feel unique even when not using powers. They wouldn't be mods as they would be a quintessential part of the frame, innate and imbedded.

  

Well that's... kinda OP to begin with, if it's a passive aura. 'S a lot of extra ammo, Health Orbs, credits, Life support, mods...

If Warframes did have passives OUTSIDE pre-existing Aura slots (which are team-wide passives), it definitely couldn't be something that powerful - likewise, it can't really have some passive that's already occupied by the Auras. Small-scale passives like 'Ember - Resist Fire by 30%' or 'Valkyr - +20% melee damage against Corpus' would work much better.

Well if it worked as a passive it wouldn't function exactly as it does now. It would simply re-roll the loot chance once on a body as it enters the radius of the passive.

But, I am more interested on peoples opinions on passives as a whole, if people keep commenting purely on the Nekros example I gave I will remove it from the OP.

And yes, other passives could be as you suggested, I was thinking for valkyr that she could have passive melee Lifesteal? So you can compliment it with the life steal mod, but neither it nor hysteria are necessary for valkyr to be more durable that other frames when it comes to melee.

[Scherhardt]

Zephyr has a passive..

She got higher air resistance than other frames if you look closely.

[TunaMayo]

i like the idea of passives

 

elemental related passives to all the elemental frames themes or utility passives would be fun

very small aoe passive wouldnt be too overpowered ie; frost having a small aoe freeze around him, ember having a low damage burn aura etc

 

My thinking exactly.

With regards to elemental frames, I wouldn't mind them having slightly weaker, but two pronged passives.

So valkyr might get a potent melee passive, or ash/banshee a stealth passive, whereas elemental frames might get % resistance to their given element and a slight aura as you mentioned.

 

Zephyr has a passive..

She got higher air resistance than other frames if you look closely.

Yes, but she is the only frame with a such feature.

Also, I think DE were careful in giving her a mild passive so as not to upset people that she is the only one thus far. But it could be more interesting.

[Xhos]

If leaders can have it, why can't we? :(

[Ganpot]

In theory, I really like the idea of passive abilities.  They would allow warframes to feel more unique, and help give them more defined roles.  That might really help out some of the underpowered ones. 

 

On the other hand, it would require more balancing work (akin to giving every warframe an additional power).  DE have a pretty abysmal track record in that regard.  They would probably find some way to make Nova far more powerful while at the same time making several other warframes have negative passives unintentionally. 

 

By the way, does anyone have any ideas for possible passives for Nyx and Trinity? 

[Xhos]

In theory, I really like the idea of passive abilities.  They would allow warframes to feel more unique, and help give them more defined roles.  That might really help out some of the underpowered ones. 

 

On the other hand, it would require more balancing work (akin to giving every warframe an additional power).  DE have a pretty abysmal track record in that regard.  They would probably find some way to make Nova far more powerful while at the same time making several other warframes have negative passives unintentionally. 

 

By the way, does anyone have any ideas for possible passives for Nyx and Trinity? 

 

Nyx - Enemies entering the radius of hers for the FIRST time will stun them. No, no... that would be too OP. How about... no. Wait, what if... nope. I know! She launches psychic bolts at them the first time they enter the radius! If they die they fly back and do damage, like the Paris Prime.

 

Trinity - Allies entering her radius will be slowly healed.

[Luffy490]

Nyx - Enemies entering the radius of hers for the FIRST time will stun them. No, no... that would be too OP. How about... no. Wait, what if... nope. I know! She launches psychic bolts at them the first time they enter the radius! If they die they fly back and do damage, like the Paris Prime.

 

Trinity - Allies entering her radius will be slowly healed.

 

Nyx could detect some enemies nearby, but I feel like that enemy detection should go to Banshee instead. I cannot even think of a good passive for Nyx.

 

Or... what if she can pick up loot? But, then Carrier might be redundant. Mabye she could throw items at enemies...? Nyx is a tough one..

[Shanicus]

Well if it worked as a passive it wouldn't function exactly as it does now. It would simply re-roll the loot chance once on a body as it enters the radius of the passive.

But, I am more interested on peoples opinions on passives as a whole, if people keep commenting purely on the Nekros example I gave I will remove it from the OP.

And yes, other passives could be as you suggested, I was thinking for valkyr that she could have passive melee Lifesteal? So you can compliment it with the life steal mod, but neither it nor hysteria are necessary for valkyr to be more durable that other frames when it comes to melee.

I just focused on it since it was a conversion of a pre-existing ability - which is problematic in-and-of itself since the amount of work to make Desecrate a passive (or any current ability) would be pretty intense. Make a new ability + animations for the previous slot, balance that ability, balance the old ability in it's new system, balance how the two interact, block out the various threads about how the old ability should be an ability again and is OP in it's current form... it's just too much work for something that isn't needed.

Another issue is that the passives you seem to want are more 'active' passives, akin to the Desecrate field (sorry I keep bringing it up) and the Lifesteal - these passives affect combat in a VERY significant manner, which is kinda... not what a base-level passive designed to differentiate the frame should be, especially in the face of competition with the other significant passive auras. Any Warframe-base aura would have to be something small-scale that affects combat/gameplay in a small way, but just enough to differentiate the frames - so things like Elemental Resistances or Bonus Faction Damage/Resistance or even just -25% Status effect durations.

To use World of Warcraft as an example - you seem to want something like Second Wind (passive buff that provides a powerful benefit and can alter playstyle) wheras the viable passives would be something like Feline Grace (background passive that gives a useful buff but isn't game-changing). Things on a Second Wind scale would rarely be allowed in (Desecrate field, Life Steal, passive healing, stuns, general damage boost...), wheras more minor things would be... more applicable.

Granted, I could be horribly wrong and a DE comes through here, sees the suggestions you've thrown as a general ballpark figure and goes 'Hell yeah, Second Wind for everybody!', but just thinking of what could be reasonably implemented and all I can see is the minor, small-scale passives that give a boost in certain situations but don't dramatically effect gameplay.

Still be pretty fun coming up with strong passives for everyone though.

 

In theory, I really like the idea of passive abilities.  They would allow warframes to feel more unique, and help give them more defined roles.  That might really help out some of the underpowered ones. 

 

On the other hand, it would require more balancing work (akin to giving every warframe an additional power).  DE have a pretty abysmal track record in that regard.  They would probably find some way to make Nova far more powerful while at the same time making several other warframes have negative passives unintentionally. 

 

By the way, does anyone have any ideas for possible passives for Nyx and Trinity? 

Nyx - resists physical/mental debuffs by 25% (Impact, Puncture, Radiation, Cold)

Trinity - resists elemental DoTs by 25% (Fire, Toxic, Shock, Gas)

Or for a stronger passive:

Nyx - Mind-controlled enemies gain a 2% lifesteal

Trinity - increases all healing received by 25% (includes Health Orbs, Well of Life and Team Restores)

...and a really strong passive:

Nyx - Mind-controlled enemies give back 5% HP when killed

Trinity - Regenerate HP at a rate of 1 per second. Disabled when invulnerable.

[TunaMayo]

In theory, I really like the idea of passive abilities.  They would allow warframes to feel more unique, and help give them more defined roles.  That might really help out some of the underpowered ones. 

 

On the other hand, it would require more balancing work (akin to giving every warframe an additional power).  DE have a pretty abysmal track record in that regard.  They would probably find some way to make Nova far more powerful while at the same time making several other warframes have negative passives unintentionally. 

 

By the way, does anyone have any ideas for possible passives for Nyx and Trinity?

Nyx - Enemies that damage Nyx (shields or health) have a % to become "chaosed". The % chance would have to be low (5-10) but increases the lower Nyxs health gets (bit of survivability).

Trinity - Trinity can instantly revive allies from a distance. So you aim at a downed friendly from a distance and the option to revive will pop up.

[TunaMayo]

I just focused on it since it was a conversion of a pre-existing ability - which is problematic in-and-of itself since the amount of work to make Desecrate a passive (or any current ability) would be pretty intense. Make a new ability + animations for the previous slot, balance that ability, balance the old ability in it's new system, balance how the two interact, block out the various threads about how the old ability should be an ability again and is OP in it's current form... it's just too much work for something that isn't needed.Another issue is that the passives you seem to want are more 'active' passives, akin to the Desecrate field (sorry I keep bringing it up) and the Lifesteal - these passives affect combat in a VERY significant manner, which is kinda... not what a base-level passive designed to differentiate the frame should be, especially in the face of competition with the other significant passive auras. Any Warframe-base aura would have to be something small-scale that affects combat/gameplay in a small way, but just enough to differentiate the frames - so things like Elemental Resistances or Bonus Faction Damage/Resistance or even just -25% Status effect durations.To use World of Warcraft as an example - you seem to want something like Second Wind (passive buff that provides a powerful benefit and can alter playstyle) wheras the viable passives would be something like Feline Grace (background passive that gives a useful buff but isn't game-changing). Things on a Second Wind scale would rarely be allowed in (Desecrate field, Life Steal, passive healing, stuns, general damage boost...), wheras more minor things would be... more applicable.Granted, I could be horribly wrong and a DE comes through here, sees the suggestions you've thrown as a general ballpark figure and goes 'Hell yeah, Second Wind for everybody!', but just thinking of what could be reasonably implemented and all I can see is the minor, small-scale passives that give a boost in certain situations but don't dramatically effect gameplay.Still be pretty fun coming up with strong passives for everyone though. Nyx - resists physical/mental debuffs by 25% (Impact, Puncture, Radiation, Cold)Trinity - resists elemental DoTs by 25% (Fire, Toxic, Shock, Gas)Or for a stronger passive:Nyx - Mind-controlled enemies gain a 2% lifestealTrinity - increases all healing received by 25% (includes Health Orbs, Well of Life and Team Restores)...and a really strong passive:Nyx - Mind-controlled enemies give back 5% HP when killedTrinity - Regenerate HP at a rate of 1 per second. Disabled when invulnerable.

I only give Nekros the desecrate passive as the power is so deeply embedded into survival missions now that removing it from the game would cause pitchforks Nd book burnings.

If I had it my way desecrate would be removed from the game full stop.

The lifesteal would be minor, just enough to give Valkyr the edge in melee and mean that hysteria only has to be used when absolutely necessary. But then again, I dislike hysteria in its current implementation so tried to think of a passive without bearing hysteria mind.

I see why you think these could be overpowered, but I'm no game designer so I very well could be thinking of things that are too powerful. I was just trying to get creative juices flowing and see how people felt about passives in general!

[BerserkerPrime]

my ideas to each frame:

 

excalibur- melee damage bonus

 

loki- +X% status chance with each weapon

 

banshee- all weapons used are silenced

 

nova- +X% blast damage to all enemies

 

rhino- +X% knockdown ressistance chance

 

nyx- +X% stagger chance with each weapon

 

valkyr- +X% melee attack speed

 

vauban- +X% sentinel health and shield

 

hydroid- armor is applied to shield

 

oberon- X% chance of lifesteal

 

trinity- X% chance of linking damage done

 

zephyr- gravity resistance

 

ash- +X% bonus damage while undedected

 

nekros- +X% chance of desecrating a small reward

 

mag- +X% magnetic bonus damage

 

elemental frames- X% resistance do elemental dmg type they are based on and a full resistance of the proc

 

prime frames- secret interaction with the void

Edited April 19, 2014 by fluffy_YOLO

[Shanicus]

I only give Nekros the desecrate passive as the power is so deeply embedded into survival missions now that removing it from the game would cause pitchforks Nd book burnings.

If I had it my way desecrate would be removed from the game full stop.

The lifesteal would be minor, just enough to give Valkyr the edge in melee and mean that hysteria only has to be used when absolutely necessary. But then again, I dislike hysteria in its current implementation so tried to think of a passive without bearing hysteria mind.

I see why you think these could be overpowered, but I'm no game designer so I very well could be thinking of things that are too powerful. I was just trying to get creative juices flowing and see how people felt about passives in general!

I put the lifesteal in the 'too strong' tree generally due to a) the fact that Valkyr has lifesteal in an ability already and b) Melee can have lifesteal now as well. If it was a really minor amount (like, .5% or 1%) and didn't stack with any of her other lifesteal sources (so having lifesteal modded or Hysteria); that way it's a nice passive that plays to her strength, but doesn't stack with her already-potent lifestealing from other sources.

I'm a big fan of passives for things, as they're generally a good way to differentiate things without having to design entirely new gameplay aspects around them (17 Warframes and counting, that's a lot of gameplay redesigns); but they do really need to be carefully handled, otherwise it can get... messy. For a game like Warframe the smaller passives work best, mainly due to their ease of implementation and balance. Larger passives could be thrown in, but you'd have to make sure everyone get's their equivalent to a 'Desecrate field', which would be a pain to balance out for certain frames (seriously, what would Excal's equivalent to that be? passive blind?).

I am thinking about the various passives/buffs that could be implemented though (including a set of 'powerful' ones), so you got my creative thoughts flowing at least. :D

[TunaMayo]

I put the lifesteal in the 'too strong' tree generally due to a) the fact that Valkyr has lifesteal in an ability already and b) Melee can have lifesteal now as well. If it was a really minor amount (like, .5% or 1%) and didn't stack with any of her other lifesteal sources (so having lifesteal modded or Hysteria); that way it's a nice passive that plays to her strength, but doesn't stack with her already-potent lifestealing from other sources.

I'm a big fan of passives for things, as they're generally a good way to differentiate things without having to design entirely new gameplay aspects around them (17 Warframes and counting, that's a lot of gameplay redesigns); but they do really need to be carefully handled, otherwise it can get... messy. For a game like Warframe the smaller passives work best, mainly due to their ease of implementation and balance. Larger passives could be thrown in, but you'd have to make sure everyone get's their equivalent to a 'Desecrate field', which would be a pain to balance out for certain frames (seriously, what would Excal's equivalent to that be? passive blind?).

I am thinking about the various passives/buffs that could be implemented though (including a set of 'powerful' ones), so you got my creative thoughts flowing at least. :D

Well the game is due a balance check oveeall if we are honest.

I say desecrate field would be a passive as it frees up the frame as his only use is desecrate at the moment. Valkyr lifesteal as she is melee focused and too reliant on hysteria to survive.

Each passive could be tailored to attempt to compliment a frames playstyle. Like I suggested that Trinity could instantly revive from a distance, or nyx has a chance to chaos an attacking enemy.

Excal is a versatile frame who utilises melee and deserves a versatile passive. I was thinking possibly have his powers scale with the melee combo bonus? Or his melee combos stack twice as fast?