Tenno Fight For-Uh..well...huh.

[Windbow]

No need for that, Code_Grey. A non-wall-of-text would be fine. Just get some rest first. ;)

[Mak_Gohae]

Mak_Gohae has slightly misunderstood my point. I did not want peruvian flute bands hanging out in the reactor core. I wanted the galaxy to feel more alive, and for some real context for what we do. (IE: Consequences if we don't.)

I'm either not making sense, as I feared, or he just didn't quite read thorougly. Your answer is due tomorrow, five hundred words, double space.

Like i said, we are fighting to get Orokin tech and keep it from anyone else, you are fighting to so your Tenno buddies dont end up in the hands of others. It's a battle over resources. I know it's not the typical "they bad, we good" story but it's a story.

[Code_Grey]

I know it's not the typical "they bad, we good" story but it's a story.

I respectfully disagree with that one. I kind of feel we're just -told- they're evil. Because...one side wear boxes, and the other side -should- wear boxes on their heads. The point of an innocent party in the galaxy -even for a single dialogue line from Lotus- would be many times more substantial than "Pimpleface over there wants to stop his race from degrading into extinction, Cap that mofo."

[krisp]

The Tenno fight because they're bloodthirsty psychopaths that have no purpose in life without bloodshed. They don't actually care what they fight for. All they want is more mods. More blood. More body parts. That's what they were made for. That is why they exist.

So cute of you to think we're the good guys.

[Code_Grey]

So cute of you to think we're the good guys.

And then it turns out the Tenno see the world through the eyes of the Little Sisters! Where blood is rose petals and everything is clean and happy and shiny.

[Mak_Gohae]

I respectfully disagree with that one. I kind of feel we're just -told- they're evil. Because...one side wear boxes, and the other side -should- wear boxes on their heads. The point of an innocent party in the galaxy -even for a single dialogue line from Lotus- would be many times more substantial than "Pimpleface over there wants to stop his race from degrading into extinction, Cap that mofo."

One more time, you are stopping other factions from acquiring Orokin technology and you are helping to free your Tenno buddies.

Thats core of the story.

The Grineer are an expanding empire who want to use Orikin tech weapons are you are stopping their advancements. This line of dialogue is specifically said in those "Destroy machine" missions. That's the reason you are fighting them.

The Corpus are acquiring orokin tech and selling it to whoever they want so you are stopping this practice. That's the reason you are fighting them.

The Infested are an ancient weapon out of control spreading and destroying everything. That's the reason you are fighting them.

You are not a Space Knight protecting farmers you are a Space Ninja who gets contracts.

Would it be cool to expand the info to better flesh out the Grineer Empire? What is the Lotus? Sure.

But atmosphere of what the game currently is doesnt really need some one saying that you are fighting to protect poor Annabele Jane so she can grow up in free world that is not oppressed by the mitilaristic Grineer.

So remember, Space Ninjas and SOLAR system and not Space Knights and Galaxy.

Edited April 2, 2013 by Mak_Gohae

[Venarge]

@Venarge: I laughed hard too. I love those yellow guys! OK. Maybe not completely pointless, I'll concede to that. :D

;)

[Code_Grey]

The Grineer are an expanding empire who want to use Orikin tech weapons are you are stopping their advancements. This line of dialogue is specifically said in those "Destroy machine" missions. That's the reason you are fighting them.

Consequences. What, is the point, of stopping them. They get Orokin weapons and...what? Now their marching parades are flashier? So the Tenno are stopping them out of some sort of pride or greed. "Our technology, bugger off."?

This is my point. Stopping them from getting technology can't be the Why and the How.

And as a footnote, if I'm just not understanding an obvious point, I hope it gets through to me soon. I admit I could easily be missing something here.

[Mak_Gohae]

Consequences. What, is the point, of stopping them. They get Orokin weapons and...what? Now their marching parades are flashier? So the Tenno are stopping them out of some sort of pride or greed. "Our technology, bugger off."?

This is my point. Stopping them from getting technology can't be the Why and the How.

And as a footnote, if I'm just not understanding an obvious point, I hope it gets through to me soon. I admit I could easily be missing something here.

The UN doesnt anyone to have Nukes, it's the same thing with Lotus.

We are the UN Peacekeeping Force of the future.

Or go watch Gundam 00.

[Code_Grey]

That would make sense, since those Nukes can be used on the other countries of Earth.

It wouldn't make sense because the dangerous technology would be pointed at their own head.

If a civilian presence is implied, if we're told "Hey, not EVERYONE in the system is a gun wielding maniac." This raises the stakes, as it were.

If the Imperials were the only people in the entire galaxy, and they had a Deathstar, who cares if they have it? All they're able to blow up is their own planets.

[Windbow]

Bah, the UN is boring. Besides, that's what the Council is, isn't it? It feels to me that the Lotus is more like the Kouga or Iga (ninja) clans of medieval Japan. They are mercenaries but they also like to keep their stuff (and interests) under wraps. I'm more inclined to see it akin to the Bene Gesserit (Dune) thing to be honest. Except, more secret. And directly violent. Maintaining some kind of balance so that no single faction has the upper hand. all the while profiting from the strife. Maybe. :P

[Mentosftw]

Not to mention the Tenno are blindly following the orders of the Lotus.

There's probably more to the grineer, corpus, infected and tenno; if all the player is exposed to are missions on desolate locations and spaceships (and rarely the bases on a planet), of course all they would assume that only those things exist.

What about those hostages? You only see the heads (and not to mention they're all female...) but they look clearly human. I think they're probably members of Lotus.

The tenno themselves probably aren't human either; just look at their feet and the length of their toes.

I would really enjoy missions where you break off from Lotus and fight for what the Tenno beleive in.

Or maybe encounter artifacts from the past which fills in the missing gaps of their memories.

It would be REALLY interesting if squads or players could play the role as Stalkers or randomly invade other people's runs without initial notification (for example start a sabotage mission but in actuality it's an invasion of another squad's mission).

Edited April 2, 2013 by Mentosftw

[Mak_Gohae]

That would make sense, since those Nukes can be used on the other countries of Earth.

It wouldn't make sense because the dangerous technology would be pointed at their own head.

If a civilian presence is implied, if we're told "Hey, not EVERYONE in the system is a gun wielding maniac." This raises the stakes, as it were.

If the Imperials were the only people in the entire galaxy, and they had a Deathstar, who cares if they have it? All they're able to blow up is their own planets.

I thik it's pretty clearly implied that they are a spreading empire which clearly states that they do not control every single area.

[Stalker.]

Yes, I forgot about Tyl Regor.

We don't even know who the Grineer are oppressing. They're part of a council with other factions or races, and we never hear about them comitting any atrocity or anything. The worst thing they do is trying to improve their technology via research into Orokin artifacts.

We do know they fought wars previously (many of the assassination targets are war vets) but they don't seem to still be at war now.

I mean, Lotus mentions how they're jingoist and whatever... but they do in fact have seats in a council so they must be at peace with the other factions.

And the Corpus...what are the Corpus really doing "wrong"? Messing with Orokin technology, creating new kinds of robot and repairing trade lanes seems to be their main activities. Repairing the Solar Rails is a very good thing, by the way. The only exception is Nef Anyo who seems to smuggle Tenno cryopods...but...is Lotus really worried about the Tenno inside? No.

She clearly says that she just doesn't want Warframe technology to fall into the "wrong hands".

The final nail in the coffin is that the Tenno do in fact use Orokin technology. We supercharge weapons and warframes with Orokin reactors and catalysts, some weapons are of Orokin design (Boltor/Bolto for example), etc. The warframes themselves come from the Orokin era.

What are the intentions of the Lotus then? Keeping the rest of the galaxy less advanced than themselves, and attaining political power in the galaxy.

She (or the organization she represents) is clearly no better than the Grineer or Corpus. She/they may as well be worse.

Lotus basically commits indirect genocide by killing Tyl Regor and stopping his investigations. It's stated many times that their genetic deterioration will be their end, but Tyl Regor was finding a process to revert this, and we kill him.

This would make sense considering the Stalker's dialogue. Maybe he's the Batman of this galaxy.

[CaligoIllioneus]

I thik it's pretty clearly implied that they are a spreading empire which clearly states that they do not control every single area.

They're a spreading empire that the Lotus wants to genocide. And they seem to be civil enough to join a council with other races or factions.

The Tenno wants all the Orokin technology for themselves, to they keep an edge on the other factions.

I don't think the Lotus is/are plain evil. They are probably Orokin descendants that know how the Orokin screwed up by creating the Infestation to battle the "Sentients" (or word that sounds like that) and they want to avoid such things from happening again by monopolizing all the advanced technology. That would be a possible good-ish motivation for her/them.

Or like I said, maybe they just want power.

Edited April 2, 2013 by CaligoIllioneus

[Stalker.]

Not to mention the Tenno are blindly following the orders of the Lotus.

There's probably more to the grineer, corpus, infected and tenno; if all the player is exposed to are missions on desolate locations and spaceships (and rarely the bases on a planet), of course all they would assume that only those things exist.

What about those hostages? You only see the heads (and not to mention they're all female...) but they look clearly human. I think they're probably members of Lotus.

The tenno themselves probably aren't human either; just look at their feet and the length of their toes.

I would really enjoy missions where you break off from Lotus and fight for what the Tenno beleive in.

Or maybe encounter artifacts from the past which fills in the missing gaps of their memories.

It would be REALLY interesting if squads or players could play the role as Stalkers or randomly invade other people's runs without initial notification (for example start a sabotage mission but in actuality it's an invasion of another squad's mission).

Sorry to double post. But yeah it would be really fun to implement a Demon's Souls/Dark Souls similar system. One of my favorite boss fights was fighting against the Old Monk in Demon's Souls because it could be a player.

[CaligoIllioneus]

Oh, yes! that would be awesome.

We need Black Phantom Stalker Tenno.

You just found the best way to introduce a form of PvP in the future.

And there's no backstab fishing here!

[Mak_Gohae]

They're a spreading empire that the Lotus wants to genocide. And they seem to be civil enough to join a council with other races or factions.

The Tenno wants all the Orokin technology for themselves, to they keep an edge on the other factions.

I don't think the Lotus is/are plain evil. They are probably Orokin descendants that know how the Orokin screwed up by creating the Infestation to battle the "Sentients" (or word that sounds like that) and they want to avoid such things from happening again by monopolizing all the advanced technology. That would be a possible good-ish motivation for her/them.

Or like I said, maybe they just want power.

Where did you get the idea of genocide and council of other races?

[Mentosftw]

Sorry to double post. But yeah it would be really fun to implement a Demon's Souls/Dark Souls similar system. One of my favorite boss fights was fighting against the Old Monk in Demon's Souls because it could be a player.

Oh, yes! that would be awesome.

We need Black Phantom Stalker Tenno.

You just found the best way to introduce a form of PvP in the future.

And there's no backstab fishing here!

Haha, I'm a huge fan of the Souls series and the Stalker encounters just really made me want the same phantom invasion thing happening in here.

[adaroe]

Is not the real question what we are going to do with this technology? The tenno are awakening, but for what purpose, where is this anctient place we're headed.

Really. Why are we rallying? Whom is the lotus to awaken us? I get the feeling the grineer aren't the real enemies but merely a stepping stone, possibly to the sentients.

[FierceRadiance]

Oh, yes! that would be awesome.

We need Black Phantom Stalker Tenno.

You just found the best way to introduce a form of PvP in the future.

And there's no backstab fishing here!

Unfortunately, I recall reading this idea being suggested elsewhere on another thread, and the Devs nixed it as being (in their view) just a variation on PvP, which they've clearly said they aren't going to do.

[Stalker.]

Q.Q awwwww.

[Code_Grey]

I feel like I need to reel things in here.

What the Lotus' agenda is, it's irrelevant. I'm trying to talk about the motivation on a personal level.

Maybe everything makes sense from the point of view of someone who has all the pieces. The Tenno do not.

Try and think, if you had no memory of what happened before you were awakened- why would you care about the missions? You cared about killing Nef Anyo because you can relate to the other Tenno, they're in the same boat, they help you, they save you.

Since every mission can't be 'Rescue Tenno', I feel just some -tiny- changes can give Tenno a more believable personal motivation.

To take a huge step back, nothing is lost by doing this. And significantly more can be gained. There's no reason NOT to add to the life in the system. The Tenno might not be super space knights of righteous justice, but maybe some of them think that way. We're going on the assumption they have some degree of self identity and thought.

[Venarge]

They're a spreading empire that the Lotus wants to genocide. And they seem to be civil enough to join a council with other races or factions.

The Tenno wants all the Orokin technology for themselves, to they keep an edge on the other factions.

I don't think the Lotus is/are plain evil. They are probably Orokin descendants that know how the Orokin screwed up by creating the Infestation to battle the "Sentients" (or word that sounds like that) and they want to avoid such things from happening again by monopolizing all the advanced technology. That would be a possible good-ish motivation for her/them.

Or like I said, maybe they just want power.

If they join a council. why does the grineer boss always beats the sh*** out of the corpus guys whenever I have to kill a grineer boss on corpus outposts.....

[Mak_Gohae]

Try and think, if you had no memory of what happened before you were awakened- why would you care about the missions? You cared about killing Nef Anyo because you can relate to the other Tenno, they're in the same boat, they help you, they save you.

Pretty sure they are informed by Lotus about their situation.

Since every mission can't be 'Rescue Tenno', I feel just some -tiny- changes can give Tenno a more believable personal motivation.

To take a huge step back, nothing is lost by doing this. And significantly more can be gained. There's no reason NOT to add to the life in the system. The Tenno might not be super space knights of righteous justice, but maybe some of them think that way. We're going on the assumption they have some degree of self identity and thought.

NO! There shall be none of that cheesiness in this game!

You are not a super hero you are a Space Ninja. There shall be no fighting for justice.