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Conclave Collective Petition


War_Admiral_Adama
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There are a few major instances of serious-case bugs/exploits that have been brought up in the Conclave Feedback area, after alot of congregation and talking with commoners in Conclave, we as a collective feel the need to Petition these issues be fixed. Or they won't see fixes for some time. As limited as hardcore or common Conclavers are, we still feel the right to ask DE for some changes as a collective group of Warframe PvPers. Please simply "Agree" in the comments or Upvote if you'd like to sign this petition for changes.

 

In order of Importance:

 

1. Reflection/Reflex Guard: (Seriously Broken)

With Update 13 has come a huge overhaul with melee. This brings new mechanics and playstyles to Conclave. There is much more "Good" than harm with Melee 2.0, but the elephant in the room stands to be a very exploitable mechanic that punishes players who shoot to kill, and rewards players who are not actively trying to kill. With kills. It really is not as simple as "Don't Shoot" or "Jump attack". It really is not. There is no real way to counter this at the time.

 

Entire playstyles and builds must be changed to combat one mod. One mod should not change a players multiple mod builds just to adapt. It isn't fun to have to figure out ways to kill players who stand still and block. It removes flow of fighting, and hinders playstyle much more than it should.

 

For Example, a player blocking with reflection equipped nullifies the ability for an opposing player to shoot, because it will kill them. Because of this, the blocker can now close the distance punishment free, camp energy, or cast a instant kill ability like "Blade Storm" without harm. It really takes skill, build composition, and synergy out of the game and turns it into "Who will stop blocking first".

 

As a suggestion, Tone down reflections/reflex guard damage return by a large percent. While making it more fair to kill players who prefer to block (for reasons unknown) it keeps the mod viable in blocking cases where they can mitigate damage and return it until stamina is drained due to blocking too many shots.

 

2. Pre-match moving w/o 3rd person peripheral.

Some have mastered this exploit/bug to the point where they can finish a round before the round even begins by killing both players who are about to spawn.

 

For those of you unfamiliar with this; during team countdown WASD and all other buttons function, and you can actually move without being able to see your HUD. This means a player can walk from their spawn to the enemy spawn and kill them both with Melee before they have any control to engage or disengage a conflict. The only way to counter it right now is to also use the bug to avoid being killed before the roudn starts.

 

Its not really a pressing issue like Reflection, but its still pretty unfair to new players who have no idea whats going on. Simply, locking controls during countdown would prevent this bug.

 

3. Warframe Abilities (Blessing, Hysteria, etc)

I'm not going to make an entire list of the more op abilities, but I'd like to address the seriously broken uncounterable ones.

 

Blessing: Works just as it does in PvE WF, and is just absolutley ridiculous to have to play against and unable to counter.

 

Link: Is just another version of Reflection, a simple tone-down would make this ability fair.

 

Blessing+Link: Some players, will cast both and self inflict damage (Ogris,Penta,Stug) and kill enemies without them having a chance of survival.

 

Hysteria: The ability is normally combatted by simply runnning away, but not being able to crowd control a Hysteria'd Valkyr makes it broken. Hysteria allows the player to revive teammates, camp energy (to loop ult), and under certain cercumstances; impossible to run from due to CC mitigation. As a suggestion, allow Hysteria to be combatted with knockdowns or blast procs, so enemy teams can combat her in listed situations. If not, allow her to take 90% reduced damage, so she is at least killable under heavy fire.

 

4. Detonation after death: (Penta, Castana)

Both the Penta Grenades and Castana Kunai can be detonated by a player, even after they die. This is not a pressing problem, but is frustrating to play against.

 

-This is all I think needs a look into at the time. Please feel free to suggest anything you feel needs changed very badly. I will add it the list if It pops up enough.

 

If you would like to sign this petition, simply state you agree.

 

PLEASE READ: Please stay out of this petition if you feel the need to disprove of it because you dislike conclave. Your comments are unneeded and overall unecesarily toxic towards the goal of the post IN Conclave Feedback. Thankyou.

 

UPDATE 1:

More Important fixes needed here-

 

Spin attack (Slide Melee), Damages are way too high. It is actually turning conclave into nothing but Melee slide attacks. It SHOULD be comboing each other to death. Nerfing slide melee damage would greatly benefit the use of strategic melee and combos.

 

RexSol's suggestion: Under certain lag/host circumstances, one can invite a friend with conclave over the limit. This is something Ive rarely seen, but its still an issue of course.

Edited by Lynches
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There is another kinda big bug with the conclaves when inviting friends, occasionally you can invite someone with a much higher conclave value than that of the conclave they are in, and as for the rest of it I entirely agree, also reflection can be countered by projectile weapons, havent tested them all, but all I have tested have completely circumvented the reflection AND the block, which should also be changed so that you cant just override someone who it just blocking to try and get closer, dont you think it would be easier to block an arrow or a bolt rather than a bullet?

Edited by LordDarkwing
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There is another kinda big bug with the conclaves when inviting friends, occasionally you can invite someone with a much higher conclave value than that of the conclave they are in, and as for the rest of it I entirely agree, also reflection can be countered by projectile weapons, havent tested them all, but all I have tested have completely circumvented the reflection AND the block, which should also be changed so that you cant just override someone who it just blocking to try and get closer, dont you think it would be easier to block an arrow or a bolt rather than a bullet?

Glad to have you on board Darkwing!

 

Projectile weapons peircing block USED to be true. After a hotfix, scripted weapon damages can now be blocked. (Projectiles), I've also noticed, only host can shoot through block SOMETIMES. It's a very wierd and broken mechanic right now. Let's just hope it gets fixed :P

 

-See you in claves' soon man. Thanks for the support.

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I agree with all of this except I think hysteria should have 90% reduced damage but can't be knocked down. The whole point of hysteria is to go blasting through crowds; with knockdown, a moa or grineer gunner will just make it unnecessary. But yes, 90% damage is a very good fix between PVE and PVP

 

Other than that, everything here NEEDS to be done. DE, these are tweaks to values. They are not overhauls, they do not require U14, they just need to be fixed. Perhaps down the line we can get some better scoreboards and rankings and conclave overhauls, but in the meantime, these are very mostly quick and easy fixes that are very necessary

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Im amazed to see so many good conclave players showing up here, hopefully we can at the very least get the reflection and god mode problems fixed. And as for the projectile weapons thing, Ill have to give it a try and see which if any are reliable, or if I can find another good method to deal with them, other than dragon nikana that is.

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I agree with all of this except I think hysteria should have 90% reduced damage but can't be knocked down. The whole point of hysteria is to go blasting through crowds; with knockdown, a moa or grineer gunner will just make it unnecessary. But yes, 90% damage is a very good fix between PVE and PVP

 

Im pretty sure op didn´t want to suggest changes of hysteria in pve, but only in pvp.

I haven´t tried Hysteria in conclave yet, since it didnt make much sense for me to use there, yet i would AGREE on all the changes suggested, especially concerning REFLECTION mod.

 

One little thing that additionally annoys me is the amount of slide dmg you take in conclave, but im sure that belongs to a different stage of balancing.

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There are a few major instances of serious-case bugs/exploits that have been brought up in the Conclave Feedback area, after alot of congregation and talking with commoners in Conclave, we as a collective feel the need to Petition these issues be fixed. Or they won't see fixes for some time. As limited as hardcore or common Conclavers are, we still feel the right to ask DE for some changes as a collective group of Warframe PvPers. Please simply "Agree" in the comments or Upvote if you'd like to sign this petition for changes.

 

In order of Importance:

 

1. Reflection/Reflex Guard: (Seriously Broken)

With Update 13 has come a huge overhaul with melee. This brings new mechanics and playstyles to Conclave. There is much more "Good" than harm with Melee 2.0, but the elephant in the room stands to be a very exploitable mechanic that punishes players who shoot to kill, and rewards players who are not actively trying to kill. With kills. It really is not as simple as "Don't Shoot" or "Jump attack". It really is not. There is no real way to counter this at the time.

 

Entire playstyles and builds must be changed to combat one mod. One mod should not change a players multiple mod builds just to adapt. It isn't fun to have to figure out ways to kill players who stand still and block. It removes flow of fighting, and hinders playstyle much more than it should.

 

For Example, a player blocking with reflection equipped nullifies the ability for an opposing player to shoot, because it will kill them. Because of this, the blocker can now close the distance punishment free, camp energy, or cast a instant kill ability like "Blade Storm" without harm. It really takes skill, build composition, and synergy out of the game and turns it into "Who will stop blocking first".

 

As a suggestion, Tone down reflections/reflex guard damage return by a large percent. While making it more fair to kill players who prefer to block (for reasons unknown) it keeps the mod viable in blocking cases where they can mitigate damage and return it until stamina is drained due to blocking too many shots.

 

2. Pre-match moving w/o 3rd person peripheral.

Some have mastered this exploit/bug to the point where they can finish a round before the round even begins by killing both players who are about to spawn.

 

For those of you unfamiliar with this; during team countdown WASD and all other buttons function, and you can actually move without being able to see your HUD. This means a player can walk from their spawn to the enemy spawn and kill them both with Melee before they have any control to engage or disengage a conflict. The only way to counter it right now is to also use the bug to avoid being killed before the roudn starts.

 

Its not really a pressing issue like Reflection, but its still pretty unfair to new players who have no idea whats going on. Simply, locking controls during countdown would prevent this bug.

 

3. Warframe Abilities (Blessing, Hysteria, etc)

I'm not going to make an entire list of the more op abilities, but I'd like to address the seriously broken uncounterable ones.

 

Blessing: Works just as it does in PvE WF, and is just absolutley ridiculous to have to play against and unable to counter.

 

Link: Is just another version of Reflection, a simple tone-down would make this ability fair.

 

Blessing+Link: Some players, will cast both and self inflict damage (Ogris,Penta,Stug) and kill enemies without them having a chance of survival.

 

Hysteria: The ability is normally combatted by simply runnning away, but not being able to crowd control a Hysteria'd Valkyr makes it broken. Hysteria allows the player to revive teammates, camp energy (to loop ult), and under certain cercumstances; impossible to run from due to CC mitigation. As a suggestion, allow Hysteria to be combatted with knockdowns or blast procs, so enemy teams can combat her in listed situations. If not, allow her to take 90% reduced damage, so she is at least killable under heavy fire.

 

4. Detonation after death: (Penta, Castana)

Both the Penta Grenades and Castana Kunai can be detonated by a player, even after they die. This is not a pressing problem, but is frustrating to play against.

 

-This is all I think needs a look into at the time. Please feel free to suggest anything you feel needs changed very badly. I will add it the list if It pops up enough.

 

If you would like to sign this petition, simply state you agree.

 

PLEASE READ: Please stay out of this petition if you feel the need to disprove of it because you dislike conclave. Your comments are unneeded and overall unecesarily toxic towards the goal of the post IN Conclave Feedback. Thankyou.

 

...from six feet under ;p

 

(ps: i would like to give a try against yaa, Lynches;) )

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  • 4 weeks later...

There are a few major instances of serious-case bugs/exploits that have been brought up in the Conclave Feedback area, after alot of congregation and talking with commoners in Conclave, we as a collective feel the need to Petition these issues be fixed. Or they won't see fixes for some time. As limited as hardcore or common Conclavers are, we still feel the right to ask DE for some changes as a collective group of Warframe PvPers. Please simply "Agree" in the comments or Upvote if you'd like to sign this petition for changes.

 

In order of Importance:

 

1. Reflection/Reflex Guard: (Seriously Broken)

With Update 13 has come a huge overhaul with melee. This brings new mechanics and playstyles to Conclave. There is much more "Good" than harm with Melee 2.0, but the elephant in the room stands to be a very exploitable mechanic that punishes players who shoot to kill, and rewards players who are not actively trying to kill. With kills. It really is not as simple as "Don't Shoot" or "Jump attack". It really is not. There is no real way to counter this at the time.

 

Entire playstyles and builds must be changed to combat one mod. One mod should not change a players multiple mod builds just to adapt. It isn't fun to have to figure out ways to kill players who stand still and block. It removes flow of fighting, and hinders playstyle much more than it should.

 

For Example, a player blocking with reflection equipped nullifies the ability for an opposing player to shoot, because it will kill them. Because of this, the blocker can now close the distance punishment free, camp energy, or cast a instant kill ability like "Blade Storm" without harm. It really takes skill, build composition, and synergy out of the game and turns it into "Who will stop blocking first".

 

As a suggestion, Tone down reflections/reflex guard damage return by a large percent. While making it more fair to kill players who prefer to block (for reasons unknown) it keeps the mod viable in blocking cases where they can mitigate damage and return it until stamina is drained due to blocking too many shots.

 

2. Pre-match moving w/o 3rd person peripheral.

Some have mastered this exploit/bug to the point where they can finish a round before the round even begins by killing both players who are about to spawn.

 

For those of you unfamiliar with this; during team countdown WASD and all other buttons function, and you can actually move without being able to see your HUD. This means a player can walk from their spawn to the enemy spawn and kill them both with Melee before they have any control to engage or disengage a conflict. The only way to counter it right now is to also use the bug to avoid being killed before the roudn starts.

 

Its not really a pressing issue like Reflection, but its still pretty unfair to new players who have no idea whats going on. Simply, locking controls during countdown would prevent this bug.

 

3. Warframe Abilities (Blessing, Hysteria, etc)

I'm not going to make an entire list of the more op abilities, but I'd like to address the seriously broken uncounterable ones.

 

Blessing: Works just as it does in PvE WF, and is just absolutley ridiculous to have to play against and unable to counter.

 

Link: Is just another version of Reflection, a simple tone-down would make this ability fair.

 

Blessing+Link: Some players, will cast both and self inflict damage (Ogris,Penta,Stug) and kill enemies without them having a chance of survival.

 

Hysteria: The ability is normally combatted by simply runnning away, but not being able to crowd control a Hysteria'd Valkyr makes it broken. Hysteria allows the player to revive teammates, camp energy (to loop ult), and under certain cercumstances; impossible to run from due to CC mitigation. As a suggestion, allow Hysteria to be combatted with knockdowns or blast procs, so enemy teams can combat her in listed situations. If not, allow her to take 90% reduced damage, so she is at least killable under heavy fire.

 

4. Detonation after death: (Penta, Castana)

Both the Penta Grenades and Castana Kunai can be detonated by a player, even after they die. This is not a pressing problem, but is frustrating to play against.

 

-This is all I think needs a look into at the time. Please feel free to suggest anything you feel needs changed very badly. I will add it the list if It pops up enough.

 

If you would like to sign this petition, simply state you agree.

 

PLEASE READ: Please stay out of this petition if you feel the need to disprove of it because you dislike conclave. Your comments are unneeded and overall unecesarily toxic towards the goal of the post IN Conclave Feedback. Thankyou.

 

UPDATE 1:

More Important fixes needed here-

 

Spin attack (Slide Melee), Damages are way too high. It is actually turning conclave into nothing but Melee slide attacks. It SHOULD be comboing each other to death. Nerfing slide melee damage would greatly benefit the use of strategic melee and combos.

 

RexSol's suggestion: Under certain lag/host circumstances, one can invite a friend with conclave over the limit. This is something Ive rarely seen, but its still an issue of course.

I can always kill someone with reflection on

there are many ways in doing so

I'm just not sharing them xD

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I feel like warframe pvp is frustrating to play because the netcode for this game is sub-optimal and clearly not the best for a good pvp environment.

Either that or my internet connection is S#&$ :P

 

I agree with most of the things listed above.

 

Welp, back to the actual game so I can actually make a build and stop using guns with only a rank 6 serration :<<<<

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Please don't fix conclaves. It needs a do-over. Let the maps and normal match stay but make new game modes and stuff like capture the flag or interception but against players. Also solvable by introducing Death-match and not having to restart the match every 3 rounds.

 

If I have to add something to OP's I'd say first and foremost:

 

>Settable rules for each match. Conclaves/any pvp game isn't gonna be fair unless players playing it can make it fair for themselves. Here we really don't have the ability to do that. This will solve many balancing problems like the toxin mods' devastating effects.

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Please don't fix conclaves. It needs a do-over. Let the maps and normal match stay but make new game modes and stuff like capture the flag or interception but against players. Also solvable by introducing Death-match and not having to restart the match every 3 rounds.

 

If I have to add something to OP's I'd say first and foremost:

 

>Settable rules for each match. Conclaves/any pvp game isn't gonna be fair unless players playing it can make it fair for themselves. Here we really don't have the ability to do that. This will solve many balancing problems like the toxin mods' devastating effects.

I like this guys thinking.

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No. Don't change anything... conclave is more about modding+exploits than it is about skill. (reflection ftw) In fact, I say buff reflection so that it reflects 360 degrees instead of 180, and also reflect any nearby AOE damage+ CC effects. Or even better just make that a new mod called Reflection prime that can only be purchased for like i dunno, 9000 plat, so only a few people can use. Cos sometimes i like to be semi-afk watching some tv while auto-killing noobs.

 

..kidding, i also vote that reflection, along with other stuff the op posted gets nerfed. These mods should especially be changed when u14 pvp comes out. 

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now that i reread this list, i think reflection should be nerfed completely. or make it so that it only reflects a bit if the blocking person is aiming at the shooter so that it at least has skill involved.

reflex guard should be nerfed completely since it's basically just an rng shield

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