Trinity: A Way To Address Blessing While Making Her A More Enjoyable Frame.

[VeKtorWithAK]

  Just want to start by saying Trinity is without a doubt my favorite Warframe and I have been sinking non-stop hours into her lately. Despite her painfully weak early leveling and horrible soloing without a strong setup, her team-play is literally godmode once she gets a few mods combod together.

 

 

  As someone who has enjoyed theorycrafting in video games for a long time I thought I would share this idea for at least addressing her ultimates power in later content while making certain mods feel more useful as well as giving a better clutch feel to both the Trinity and her targets.

 

 

 

  Blessing(current): "Fully heal and regenerate the shields of all allies. Your team also gains temporary invulnerability."

• Regenerates every player and their Sentinels and grants them invincibility for 3 / 5 / 7 / 10 seconds. This is affected by Power Duration.

• Cast time delay of 1.2 seconds. Even if you get downed while casting, the healing and invulnerability will still be granted and your allies will be able to safely revive you. The invulnerability for you still applies, even while being downed. Enemies will not be able to hasten your bleedout.

• Infinite range.

• The invulnerability effect will not offer protection from damage taken in the Vampire Challenge of Nightmare Mode, but will heal you and your allies.

• While in Survival, after the oxygen has completely run out, this skill will replenish your health and shields as well as grant invincibility. However, health and shields will still be depleted at a rapid rate, eventually leaving the player(s) at 5 health.

• While active, electricity-like energy waves will appear on all affected characters and sentinels; the color is affected by the caster's energy color.

• You and your team/sentinels will be immune to all damage for the duration but not immune to knockdowns, stuns or status effect procs (including self-inflicted ones). This, however, does protect from poison effects (Toxic Ancients).

• Does not affect Rescue mission hostages or Defense mission targets.

• Currently works against The Grustrag Three as of Update 12.

• Gives Conclave rating of 40 / 40 / 80 / 120 each level.

• All above information taken directly from Warframe.wikia)

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  Verdict on above information: Trinity is rewarded for maxing the uptime of Blessings invulnerability with Power Duration but gains nothing from Power Strength or Power Range as the restore values are blanketed at MAX and the range is unlimited... Let's be honest, this is straight up not only too much power but it makes modding a Trinity boring and a little unrewarding as the Trinities playing makes little difference in their overall effectiveness.

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  Simple(ish) changes to make it feel more rewarding for the Trinity and her team-mates when Blessing is used intelligently:

• Change invulnerability to something akin to the following, *"Grants % damage reduction to all effected equal to 50% of their missing health %(and or shields, using the greater number obviously, not combining)". This change would address a number of things including scaling from Power Strength, to making use on full health/shields inefficient but making "best case" scenarios feel so much more rewarding.

• Reduce the range to an acceptable one: this is a smaller change, just means the trinity has to watch their positioning instead of just having a "OH S#&$" button to assist team mates anywhere on t he map. Additionally this makes mods like Stretch more useful as again, we introduce a new scaling to an otherwise boring skill.

  These are just some initial changes I think that the Trinity could benefit from as well as her team-mates, currently the frame has a number of issues that need addressing from leveling difficulty, to the godmode powerlevel she reaches once she attains the levels and mods required to be effective.

 

 

  What are others thoughts on the subject as I am generally worried that an otherwise weak frame(overall) will be getting a nerf because of the single skill that makes her useful later in group content :(

 

 

 

 

  TLDR, please don;t nerf my Trinity outright, address the issue and make her kit feel better for both the Trinity player and her team-mates

 

*PS: WTB Trinity Prime/Immortal skin!!! :P *

 Taken from my reddit post http://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/240vgz/trinity_a_way_to_address_blessing_while_making/

Edited April 26, 2014 by VeKtorWithAK

[Aver]

i understand that no one wants their trinity to be nerfed but... how do you balance immortality? i think they should honestly change it to a different skill since damage reduction is honestly not something i think belongs on a 4 ability.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Aver

[TioMegaManX]

I wonder why people complain about certain frames "stealing muh kills" when the game is co-op, they should just go and play something like Doom or Unreal Tournament.

[Aver]

I wonder why people complain about certain frames "stealing muh kills" when the game is co-op, they should just go and play something like Doom or Unreal Tournament.

this isnt the problem with trinity, the problem with trinity is someone types in "power overwhelming" every time i see one and i barely get a say in it. and while its part of the game it feels like im basically cheating, there is no challenge whatsoever. 

[VeKtorWithAK]

i understand that no one wants their trinity to be nerfed but... how do you balance immortality? i think they should honestly change it to a different skill since damage reduction is honestly not something i think belongs on a 4 ability.

Did you even read the post? It would no longer be invulnerability but a %damage reduction buff based on missing health of targets when cast. This means full hp targets get no damage reduction at all.

[Mickey1779]

It is more than one skill that needs a look at.

 

Link's ability to reflect self inflicted damage back to enemies is also broken.

 

Link+Blessing+self damaging weapon

 

Check out 

[Histori]

 there is no challenge whatsoever. 

Yea there is no challenge in game it's just a mindless grind if you don't want support the game that will stay in beta forever,  and there is no rewards for stealth to but still will be forced to play stealth missions anyways.

They answer only on nerfs not on RNG, they are just a greedy and all they want is money and this game is becoming more and more less enjoyable to play.

[VeKtorWithAK]

this isnt the problem with trinity, the problem with trinity is someone types in "power overwhelming" every time i see one and i barely get a say in it. and while its part of the game it feels like im basically cheating, there is no challenge whatsoever. 

 This pretty much, except for those damn energy drain/silence mechanics... Those just screw up the Trinities day....

 As a Trinity main, I sometimes feel the same now that I have reached the threshold where I can keep Blessing 100% uptime but the truth is, I would rather her overall kit be better than have one broken skill but for me, it is what it is atm. I love her overall kit for the most part though it definitely could use some attention to it's values and play pattern(Energy Vampire and Well of Life become useless later in content to the point of removing them from builds in favor of other, more useful stats).

[Mickey1779]

Yea there is no challenge in game it's just a mindless grind if you don't want support the game that will stay in beta forever,  and there is no rewards for stealth to but still will be forced to play stealth missions anyways.

They answer only on nerfs not on RNG, they are just a greedy and all they want is money and this game is becoming more and more less enjoyable to play.

 

Forced stealth and forced pvp in Dark Sectors, face it, just stick a fork in Warframe and call it done.

[Aver]

Did you even read the post? It would no longer be invulnerability but a %damage reduction buff based on missing health of targets when cast. This means full hp targets get no damage reduction at all.

thats still immortality. all you did is make it look like your in danger since your no longer @ full hp/shields but your still pretty much under the exact same effect as you where with current blessing so yes i did read your post and i dont agree with it being a valid solution since it doesnt change anything and still produces bland gameplay with very few consequences. also histori wtf is with that cherry picking, i still enjoy the game i just have some nuances with bits and pieces of it.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Aver

[Histori]

Forced stealth and forced pvp in Dark Sectors, face it, just stick a fork in Warframe and call it done.

Well m8 is my choice will i play this game in future, same goes for supporting this beta game with my money.

 

DS are just another bad idea from them, i mean what the clan or alliance get for holding that nodes ?

Is just my opinion .

[Histori]

thats still immortality. all you did is make it look like your in danger since your no longer @ full hp/shields but your still pretty much under the exact same effect as you where with current blessing so yes i did read your post and i dont agree with it being a valid solution since it doesnt change anything and still produces bland gameplay with very few consequences. also histori wtf is with that cherry picking, i still enjoy the game i just have some nuances with bits and pieces of it.

Well i must say i don't like cry babies, frames like Trin and Nova are saving my time while i need to grind or farm stuff in this game.

[Aver]

Well i must say i don't like cry babies, frames like Trin and Nova are saving my time while i need to grind or farm stuff in this game.

i understand what your saying completely histori, i mean S#&$ look at my comment history and you'd see me telling people to use nova to grind out weapons and stuff i get it and i feel that way about both of them all the time but ya gotta realize its bad for the game health to give you a permanent get out of jail free card. if a game is nothing but wins than eventually you'll get tired of the game, you gotta lose a few so that the wins actually mean something is how i look at it.

 

also this is a forum where we discuss things if my opinion on a topic makes you think i'm a cry baby than F*** it i don't care

[VeKtorWithAK]

i understand what your saying completely histori, i mean S#&$ look at my comment history and you'd see me telling people to use nova to grind out weapons and stuff i get it and i feel that way about both of them all the time but ya gotta realize its bad for the game health to give you a permanent get out of jail free card. if a game is nothing but wins than eventually you'll get tired of the game, you gotta lose a few so that the wins actually mean something is how i look at it.

 

also this is a forum where we discuss things if my opinion on a topic makes you think i'm a cry baby than F*** it i don't care

 

 No offence but your opinions are pretty ridiculous, you compare what could be a 0% damage reduction to a global invulnerability with 100% uptime... Clearly you are not grasping the math behind the idea or how it would impact the other 3 players in the group since their damage reduction would vary based on their missing hp(if they were missing any at all).

 The two mechanics are not even comparable...

Edited April 26, 2014 by VeKtorWithAK

[Histori]

i understand what your saying completely histori, i mean S#&$ look at my comment history and you'd see me telling people to use nova to grind out weapons and stuff i get it and i feel that way about both of them all the time but ya gotta realize its bad for the game health to give you a permanent get out of jail free card. if a game is nothing but wins than eventually you'll get tired of the game, you gotta lose a few so that the wins actually mean something is how i look at it.

 

also this is a forum where we discuss things if my opinion on a topic makes you think i'm a cry baby than F*** it i don't care

No i want to and i like to discuss cus i learn how to write in English, i was not telling you are the cry baby sry.

I mean game should be fun to play this games today or all of the De guys that are making them they just want money they don't play the game they just make them grindy, maybe i'm starting get to old for play games i dunno.

[Marthrym]

I don't want her to be nerfed. I want her to be REWORKED.

I like Blessing the way it is right now. Why? Because it's the only real way to effectively counter the stupidely "OP" damage scaling in this game. Past a certain point, enemies can outright insta-kill you. They shouldn't be able to. And I'm not talking about high level "badass" enemies and such, no no no! Just the simple grunts. So yeah, I'd rather have "broken" abilities that counter "broken" game mechanics than nothing, thank you very much. And I really don't care if it makes things "boring". Think about it people, when you won't have anything to protect you from enemies so stupidely powerful they can kill you with one burst from halfway across the room, you WILL complain about it then too and maybe even regret the current Blessing, mark my words.

 

Oh and can someone explain to me why we are even talking about changing Trinity when frame like Banshee or Ash are in such dire need of a buff/rework/whateverfloatsyourboat? Seriously. Shouldn't we focus on them first?^^'

[VeKtorWithAK]

I don't want her to be nerfed. I want her to be REWORKED.

I like Blessing the way it is right now. Why? Because it's the only real way to effectively counter the stupidely "OP" damage scaling in this game. Past a certain point, enemies can outright insta-kill you. They shouldn't be able to. And I'm not talking about high level "badass" enemies and such, no no no! Just the simple grunts. So yeah, I'd rather have "broken" abilities that counter "broken" game mechanics than nothing, thank you very much. And I really don't care if it makes things "boring". Think about it people, when you won't have anything to protect you from enemies so stupidely powerful they can kill you with one burst from halfway across the room, you WILL complain about it then too and maybe even regret the current Blessing, mark my words.

 

Oh and can someone explain to me why we are even talking about changing Trinity when frame like Banshee or Ash are in such dire need of a buff/rework/whateverfloatsyourboat? Seriously. Shouldn't we focus on them first?^^'

 Can you grasp the concept that Trinity having a broken ultimate ruins the game for her WHOLE TEAM not just the Ash or Banshee player... It also ruins game balance from a design perspective because while her kit remains unchanged, content needs to be designed around it...

[Aver]

No i want to and i like to discuss cus i learn how to write in English, i was not telling you are the cry baby sry.

I mean game should be fun to play this games today or all of the De guys that are making them they just want money they don't play the game they just make them grindy, maybe i'm starting get to old for play games i dunno.

ah its fine, its my misunderstanding and cynicism comes with age :p and i understand that they are making the game less fun and your not happy about it but if the games gonna have any longevity than they cant let us do stuff like this

 

I don't want her to be nerfed. I want her to be REWORKED.

I like Blessing the way it is right now. Why? Because it's the only real way to effectively counter the stupidely "OP" damage scaling in this game. Past a certain point, enemies can outright insta-kill you. They shouldn't be able to. And I'm not talking about high level "badass" enemies and such, no no no! Just the simple grunts. So yeah, I'd rather have "broken" abilities that counter "broken" game mechanics than nothing, thank you very much. And I really don't care if it makes things "boring". Think about it people, when you won't have anything to protect you from enemies so stupidely powerful they can kill you with one burst from halfway across the room, you WILL complain about it then too and maybe even regret the current Blessing, mark my words.

 

Oh and can someone explain to me why we are even talking about changing Trinity when frame like Banshee or Ash are in such dire need of a buff/rework/whateverfloatsyourboat? Seriously. Shouldn't we focus on them first?^^'

i rather they fix both issues rather than keep one because the other exists, also we are talking about her because she is on the list (not necessarily priority number one since i think banshee and ash are actually ahead of her if i understood last livestream correctly, but shes on it) and people are afraid of what DE is gonna do to her.

[PeterKha]

i understand that no one wants their trinity to be nerfed but... how do you balance immortality? i think they should honestly change it to a different skill since damage reduction is honestly not something i think belongs on a 4 ability.

Rhino used to have immortality until they gave rhino skin a damage cap.

[VeKtorWithAK]

ah its fine, its my misunderstanding and cynicism comes with age :p and i understand that they are making the game less fun and your not happy about it but if the games gonna have any longevity than they cant let us do stuff like this

 

i rather they fix both issues rather than keep one because the other exists, also we are talking about her because she is on the list (not necessarily priority number one since i think banshee and ash are actually ahead of her if i understood last livestream correctly, but shes on it) and people are afraid of what DE is gonna do to her.

 Of course we are afraid that they will overnerf an already weak and situationally strong Warframe instead of just changing the mechanics.

 Some of us genuinely enjoy playing support classes in MMO games, one nerf to Trinity could force those of us to play other frames that just aren;t as enjoyable(for us).

[Nkomo-Sama]

Haters gonna hate. Trinity is FINE. Currently.

[Aver]

Rhino used to have immortality until they gave rhino skin a damage cap.

exactly instead of trying to balance it they reworked it, which is what i was trying to say in a roundabout way. DE would have to base their entire game around the premise that a frame can make everyone immortal for minutes at a time.

 

 Of course we are afraid that they will overnerf an already weak and situationally strong Warframe instead of just changing the mechanics.

 Some of us genuinely enjoy playing support classes in MMO games, one nerf to Trinity could force those of us to play other frames that just aren;t as enjoyable(for us).

okay you lost me, how is trinity weak? shes the best tank because she takes no damage (also heals any damage she mightve taken) and her link is used as a weapon of mass destruction usually instead of a defensive ability (which you can do too btw its pretty decent at that). supports in MMO's dont have the ability to PREVENT ALL DAMAGE for all of eternity, so no thats not even a valid comparison to what trinity is right now.

Haters gonna hate. Trinity is FINE. Currently.

no she is not, even if blessing was limited to just her, its bad design to have an ability in a game thats the equivalent of turning on godmode on your console commands.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Aver

[VeKtorWithAK]

 

exactly instead of trying to balance it they reworked it, which is what i was trying to say in a roundabout way. DE would have to base their entire game around the premise that a frame can make everyone immortal for minutes at a time.

 

okay you lost me, how is trinity weak? shes the best tank because she takes no damage (also heals any damage she mightve taken) and her link is used as a weapon of mass destruction usually instead of a defensive ability (which you can do too btw its pretty decent at that). supports in MMO's dont have the ability to PREVENT ALL DAMAGE for all of eternity, so no thats not even a valid comparison to what trinity is right now.

no she is not, even if blessing was limited to just her, its bad design to have an ability in a game thats the equivalent of turning on godmode on your console commands.

 

 Have you played a Trinity? Try and make a new account and play a Trinity and show me how strong she is... I have a lot of mods that combined make her ultimate broken but without them she is just a weak frame with some nice utility.

[Aver]

 Have you played a Trinity? Try and make a new account and play a Trinity and show me how strong she is... I have a lot of mods that combined make her ultimate broken but without them she is just a weak frame with some nice utility.

so your telling me that a frame without mods....is weak? okay i dont really see the point to that since if i started a new account like you said and got every frame they would all be equally weak if not weaker.

[VeKtorWithAK]

so your telling me that a frame without mods....is weak? okay i dont really see the point to that since if i started a new account like you said and got every frame they would all be equally weak if not weaker.

 You obviously are stuck in your mindset and cannot see the forest from the trees... Glad another discussion on the internet got turned into a dribble fest... -_-