Removing Stat Helms Gives Older Players Yet Another Advantage

[Kiaru]

People keep saying "it's a tiny boost, it doesn't matter", yet they don't want stats removed from old helmets. If the stats are so minor, why are you defending it? Why are you saying to keep the stats? Because you KNOW the stats are not minor, and you want to keep these free insane stats for yourself. If they were so minor, you wouldn't care if they were removed, because you care, you are openly admitting they are not minor.

[(PSN)DavidBallZ]

People keep saying "it's a tiny boost, it doesn't matter", yet they don't want stats removed from old helmets. If the stats are so minor, why are you defending it? Why are you saying to keep the stats? Because you KNOW the stats are not minor, and you want to keep these free insane stats for yourself. If they were so minor, you wouldn't care if they were removed, because you care, you are openly admitting they are not minor.

Who's saying they want the stats to themselves? I want the stats, but I don't care if someone 2 years from now gets them. Go and  blame DE for using the worst possible solution in this situation.

 

Edit: Also, not all of them are "free insane stats" considering some people actually used plat to get the helm for the stat bonuses alone.

Edited May 4, 2014 by (PS4)DavidBallZ

[Judge_Hellboy]

If they want to build speed, they can always use Rush + Sprint Boost. The helmet isn't mandatory to have and who needs speed nowadays anyway when you can do this.

 

http://gfycat.com/PowerlessSecondhandDesertpupfish

 

Back then, I could launch myself with Zorens and reach the extraction point faster than anybody on my team as a frost. 

Sprint boost is 10% at max, equally available to all players of all warframes now and in the known future.

Dual Zorens also equally available to all players of all warframes now and in the known future.

 

Old and new players will have access to additional speed by those methods.

 

However, 25% movement speed is a build changing experience that will no longer be available.

 

Also, coptering like that outdoors was fun, not so useful when coptering into walls in a ship/outpost.

I can change direction while sprinting to make most use of said speed, not possible while coptering.

Oh.. and when the need arises I can copter around on Vangaurd Rhino as well.

It is all fun. Let us not deny others the same experience.

 

Note: I'd also argue that there are much better Aura mods to use than Sprint Boost for most situations and is why I didn't calculate it above..

Edited May 4, 2014 by Judge_Hellboy

[Data-Zero]

My opinion on the whole matter is this.

Part of me, does not care.

I like to use them for cosmetic purpose.  I like Meridian Trinity helmet more, but i am using Aura helmet because of the benefits and Meridian helmet has -5% energy efficiency, which is a no no in my book.

But on the side where I DO care, it shows the amount of time I have spend on this awesome timesink. Why should the old players be punished for the supposed crime of "playing the game longer"? It would only p*** them (me as well) off.

Also,  isn't this game mostly PvE? If WF main focus was PvP, I will understand the removal of stat helms. But it isn't focused on PvP so whats with the whine?

Edited May 4, 2014 by Data-Zero

[PeterKha]

My opinion on the whole matter is this.

Part of me, does not care.

I like to use them for cosmetic purpose.  I like Meridian Trinity helmet more, but i am using Aura helmet because of the benefits and Meridian helmet has -5% energy efficiency, which is a no no in my book.

But on the side where I DO care, it shows the amount of time I have spend on this awesome timesink. Why should the old players be punished for the supposed crime of "playing the game longer"? It would only p*** them (me as well) off.

Also,  isn't this game mostly PvE? If WF main focus was PvP, I will understand the removal of stat helms. But it isn't focused on PvP so whats with the whine?

Exactly, why should veterans have to give up their exclusive items in order to please newer players, in other words nobody can ever have nice things if all you're going to do is whine about not receiving something. Like the players who whine about event rewards, I missed out on the Tethra's event but I don't go around forums making threads asking them to compensate me for missing out or ask them to completely remove the mods or ask them to add them into the drops.

 

Also, I use Meridian as well since it looks a lot better than the Aura one. But a thing that you'd like to know though is that the difference between Aura and Meridian is 2.5 seconds of extra blessing, now whether you think that's worth it or not is entirely up to you but to me, it's not worth having if it's going to make my character look bad and with the -5% power efficiency, with max build you're sitting on 90% efficiency. Power efficiency caps at 75% so even with -5% efficiency, you'll still be sitting on 85% efficiency which is well over the cap so there is no negative effect from it.

 

So really, Meridian imo is the way to go.

[Data-Zero]

Exactly, why should veterans have to give up their exclusive items in order to please newer players, in other words nobody can ever have nice things if all you're going to do is whine about not receiving something. Like the players who whine about event rewards, I missed out on the Tethra's event but I don't go around forums making threads asking them to compensate me for missing out or ask them to completely remove the mods or ask them to add them into the drops.

 

Also, I use Meridian as well since it looks a lot better than the Aura one. But a thing that you'd like to know though is that the difference between Aura and Meridian is 2.5 seconds of extra blessing, now whether you think that's worth it or not is entirely up to you but to me, it's not worth having if it's going to make my character look bad and with the -5% power efficiency, with max build you're sitting on 90% efficiency. Power efficiency caps at 75% so even with -5% efficiency, you'll still be sitting on 85% efficiency which is well over the cap so there is no negative effect from it.

 

So really, Meridian imo is the way to go.

 

I thought that as well. But i keep my energy efficiency on 50% on every WF i have. Its somewhat of a rule i have set for myself.

And i have been killed just when my Blessing ran out. The 2.5 may not seem much, but its enough for me to evade a napalm strike.

[PeterKha]

I thought that as well. But i keep my energy efficiency on 50% on every WF i have. Its somewhat of a rule i have set for myself.

And i have been killed just when my Blessing ran out. The 2.5 may not seem much, but its enough for me to evade a napalm strike.

Well if that's the case then your blessing would last for 26.2 seconds which is already 7 more seconds more than mine which is way more than what's really needed but hey, to each his own :)

[Data-Zero]

Well if that's the case then your blessing would last for 26.2 seconds which is already 7 more seconds more than mine which is way more than what's really needed but hey, to each his own :)

Not really. It lasts around 22 seconds.

Have not maxed my mods out yet.

Some of them are credit and fusion core black holes. (my poor credit piggy bank T_T)

Edited for typo*

Edited May 4, 2014 by Data-Zero

[Nijuroku]

Well, I love using Loki with the Essence helmet because of the increased power efficiency but I don't like the look. I prefer his default helmet contra to the alternate helmets.

[Satsaru]

I think the best option is the one they already had - Just don't make any more helms with stats!

 

Except vanguard helmet.  Rhino prime should NOT be as fast as Loki, and I'm not even a loki player.  They should have never made vanguard helmet, or at least made the chlora helmet in line with that one... and even that still wouldn't be that great.

[sneakatone]

I dont mind them removing it but I hope they introduce it back in a different way where its not in a form of a helmet and more of a mod exclusive to the warframe.

[AarkTheDragon]

>Advantage.

 

lol no. The stats are balanced by having an equal debuff in contrast to the buff given by the helmet.

 

All the stat helmets do is give more customization options for builds, but even then not really.

[Kiaru]

>Advantage.

 

lol no. The stats are balanced by having an equal debuff in contrast to the buff given by the helmet.

 

All the stat helmets do is give more customization options for builds, but even then not really.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Vespa_Nyx_Helmet

• Power Efficiency +15%
• Armor -5%

She has 15 armor, this is -1 armor for +15% power effiency. Do you think this is an "Equal debuff"? No, there is basically no negative AT ALL.

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Aura_Trinity_Helmet

• Power duration +25%
• Health Max -5%

5% HP for 25% more power duration, do you think trading 5% of a stat for literally 5x the amount is an "equal debuff"?

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Vanguard_Rhino_Helmet

 

• Movement Speed +25%
• Power Strength -5%

 

5% power Strength to boost his only disavantage, his move speed, by 25%. Do you think 5% of a stat for 5x the amount, in a stat he's balanced around being low, is an "Equal debuff"?

 

 

As you can see, the helms are not trading a stat for a stat, you're giving up almost nothing for a huge stat increase in something that helps you tremendously. In Nyx's case, more chaos, more absorb, more MC, all for a measly ONE armor. In trinities case, -5% hp for 25% longer blessings and links, her most powerful abilities. Her helmet is also one of the reasons you can keep up perma invincibility and why she is being nerfed. For rhino, you give up a measly 5% power strength to boost his only disadvntage, making him the 2nd fastest frame in the game, instead of the slowest. That's huge, that's game breaking, that's taking his balance and THROWING It out the window, all because you have a helmet that gives +25% move speed, a helmet no new player will be able to obtain, and a helmet that cannot ever be replaced with other stats. It's literally free +25% move speed -5% power strength with no other options available.

 

TLDR: http://warframe.wikia.com/ Please read it.

Edited May 4, 2014 by Kiaru

[Sloan441]

Because we earned them, or possibly even paid for them.

 

Just to be told by some wet-behind-the-ears punk new to the game that he's butthurt that he can't get them (or was too lazy to when he had the chance).

 

That's the bottom line.

 

Ultimately, I don't think it'll matter with the focus system, but this stuff is still mine. I worked for it. I'm not having it taken away because of butt-clenching whiners looking for an excuse to feel offended.

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

>Advantage.

 

lol no. The stats are balanced by having an equal debuff in contrast to the buff given by the helmet.

 

All the stat helmets do is give more customization options for builds, but even then not really.

 

 

Hahahahahahahahah. We all know that's a flat out lie. 

 

Why must you turn this place into a house of LIES!?

[DeadlyFred]

If the stats are so minute and inconsequential, why would they prevent you from wearing any helm in the first place? Because its not inconsequential. Which is the problem. An advantage is an advantage and even as someone who has the majority of the arcane helms already, I think its pretty lame to get rid of them without getting rid of the stats entirely.

If they're going to put in a system to tweak frame performance down the line rather than relying on helm stats (which is a good idea, don't get me wrong) then ALL THE STATS need to go. If its a bad idea and imbalanced in gameplay, why should older players be entitled to use it? Is my question.

Edited May 4, 2014 by DeadlyFred

[Sloan441]

And here's another thing. You've got these pusillanimous malcontents pissing and moaning over the stat hats, but the one thing where new players are at a very pronounced disadvantage is being ignored over this frippery.

 

That's the elemental/status mods. Those were (so far) only available in the Cicero and Tethis events. Those ARE very powerful mods that can greatly affect weapon builds and new folks won't have them, short of trading for them (not cheap).

 

Now that is worth getting worked up about a bit. Not this other silliness.

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

And here's another thing. You've got these pusillanimous malcontents &!$$ing and moaning over the stat hats, but the one thing where new players are at a very pronounced disadvantage is being ignored over this frippery.

 

That's the elemental/status mods. Those were (so far) only available in the Cicero and Tethis events. Those ARE very powerful mods that can greatly affect weapon builds and new folks won't have them, short of trading for them (not cheap).

 

Now that is worth getting worked up about a bit. Not this other silliness.

 

 

I can multi task, there's other threads bringing this up already. And given the mods from Arid and Slingshot also became available to the wider community, as did the Brakk and Detron, you can be reasonably sure they'll be dropping in the future at some point. 

 

Not the same with Helms dividing the player base and causing a game balance trainwreck when the new focus system comes in. 

[Kiaru]

And here's another thing. You've got these pusillanimous malcontents &!$$ing and moaning over the stat hats, but the one thing where new players are at a very pronounced disadvantage is being ignored over this frippery.

 

That's the elemental/status mods. Those were (so far) only available in the Cicero and Tethis events. Those ARE very powerful mods that can greatly affect weapon builds and new folks won't have them, short of trading for them (not cheap).

 

Now that is worth getting worked up about a bit. Not this other silliness.

You can't equip those mods on top of your 6/6 potatod Soma/Synapse/Phage/Akstilletto/Brakk/Lato/etc. You can however, equip a helm with +25% move speed, +25% power duration, +15% power efficiency on top of all your warframes 6/6 mods and your weapons 6/6 mods. There are no replacements for these helms, a weapon and mod can be replaced and have a cap of 6 when it comes to mod slots, a helm with free 15-25% to a stat CANNOT.

 

Huge difference.

Edited May 4, 2014 by Kiaru

[(PSN)onewiseguy]

Advantage OVER GRINEER AND CO. yes !

 

We are all tennos

We are all in the same team

No competition whatsoever

Be glad your brothers can have more power

They are on your team

Objective is to win against the enemy not against fellow tenno

Lol, AGREED!

This is not a game revolving around pvp, its around pve. I mean, i understand some of the nerfs that the community is asking for, but for the most part, i think most of the frames should be left alone. Helmets too. The way that DE is handling the helmet situation now is fine, if you have a helmet with stats, keep it. You earned (or bought lol) something for being in the beta earlier than others. 

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

Lol, AGREED!

This is not a game revolving around pvp, its around pve. I mean, i understand some of the nerfs that the community is asking for, but for the most part, i think most of the frames should be left alone. Helmets too. The way that DE is handling the helmet situation now is fine, if you have a helmet with stats, keep it. You earned (or bought lol) something for being in the beta earlier than others. 

 

I was in the beta earlier than others, I also bought Frost Prime, I will now petition DE to put back his 30 second invincibility snow globe and pre nerf Avalanche, such is my right. I also bought Trinity therefore Blessing should not be nerfed, it is my right. I was in the beat earlier therefore I should be exempt to all balance changes I don't like on broken powers.

Edited May 4, 2014 by (PS4)billy-d-squid

[(PSN)onewiseguy]

And here's another thing. You've got these pusillanimous malcontents &!$$ing and moaning over the stat hats, but the one thing where new players are at a very pronounced disadvantage is being ignored over this frippery.

 

That's the elemental/status mods. Those were (so far) only available in the Cicero and Tethis events. Those ARE very powerful mods that can greatly affect weapon builds and new folks won't have them, short of trading for them (not cheap).

 

Now that is worth getting worked up about a bit. Not this other silliness

Well, given that people had to work hard over the events to earn these mods, i never really saw a problem with this, even when i missed out. But from what i have seen in other threads, DE could throw the events/mods back into circulation at some time in the future if they chose to.

[PeterKha]

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Vespa_Nyx_Helmet

• Power Efficiency +15%
• Armor -5%

She has 15 armor, this is -1 armor for +15% power effiency. Do you think this is an "Equal debuff"? No, there is basically no negative AT ALL.

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Aura_Trinity_Helmet

• Power duration +25%
• Health Max -5%

5% HP for 25% more power duration, do you think trading 5% of a stat for literally 5x the amount is an "equal debuff"?

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Vanguard_Rhino_Helmet

 

• Movement Speed +25%
• Power Strength -5%

 

5% power Strength to boost his only disavantage, his move speed, by 25%. Do you think 5% of a stat for 5x the amount, in a stat he's balanced around being low, is an "Equal debuff"?

 

 

As you can see, the helms are not trading a stat for a stat, you're giving up almost nothing for a huge stat increase in something that helps you tremendously. In Nyx's case, more chaos, more absorb, more MC, all for a measly ONE armor. In trinities case, -5% hp for 25% longer blessings and links, her most powerful abilities. Her helmet is also one of the reasons you can keep up perma invincibility and why she is being nerfed. For rhino, you give up a measly 5% power strength to boost his only disadvntage, making him the 2nd fastest frame in the game, instead of the slowest. That's huge, that's game breaking, that's taking his balance and THROWING It out the window, all because you have a helmet that gives +25% move speed, a helmet no new player will be able to obtain, and a helmet that cannot ever be replaced with other stats. It's literally free +25% move speed -5% power strength with no other options available.

 

TLDR: http://warframe.wikia.com/ Please read it.

I'm going to show you how those numbers may sound good and godly on paper when infact they aren't.

 

I'll demonstrate with Nyx's 15% power efficiency helmet that you claim to be ever so good.

 

We all know power efficiency caps at 75% and the amount of efficiency you can gain from numbers alone is 105% helm + mods.

 

You think having Nyx's 15% power efficiency is actually worth having on because it only subtracts 1 armour but here's the thing.

 

You can keep the helmet on, which now gives you 15% power efficiency. You can slap on a Streamline which brings you up to 45% now you have 30% left which means you can add on a Fleeting Expertise to rank 2 which gives you that extra 30% efficiency and saving you -30% duration from the negative side effect.

 

OR

 

You can keep the helmet on 15% and now slap on a max Fleeting Expertise 60% which now totals up to be 75% saving you a mod slot where streamline used to be, but in doing so you're now sacrificing an extra 30% duration which now leaves you at -60% duration rather than -30% duration.

 

OR

 

You can use Streamline 30% and have Fleeting Expertise at 40% which gives you 70% which is 5% lower than the cap but now you're sitting on -40% duration which is a lot better or you can rank Fleeting to 50% which gives you 80% which means you've reached the cap of 75% but then you'd be sitting on -50% duration which isn't worth it imo so I'd much rather stay with 70 and have -40% duration than 80 with -50% duration. Doing that will then allow you to use her other helmet, menticide which looks a lot better aesthetically and when this update goes live and I can farm the new Menticide helmet with no stats, that would be a dream because +25% stamina and -5% shield is quite awful to have on a helmet and to be able have the helmet stat free would be great.

 

But that's showing you how something you may think looks good on paper turns out to be quite bit more complicated than you think.

 

I've shown you 3 different load outs with 3 different results. I'd choose the last one every time, I'd sacrifce that extra 10% of duration that I would save if I were using the first loadout with helmet because the look of Menticide is worth it.

[Firefly9715]

If you going to complain that some kid 2 years from now won't be able to get the stat boost from the helmet, you should also be complaining how they can't get an event exclusive weapon because it's unfair that they didn't start the game intime for the event therefore nobody else should get to use the weapon. That sounds fair right?

[aavvdkdk]

I've never understood why people would choose nobody having helmets with stats over everybody having a choice. The choice of choosing a helmet (for the looks) and then a stat (to boost/specialize their frames) or no stat. As I see it, these effects should be expanded upon, so that everybody can specialize their frames the way they want them to be (within limits). Making Excal a power damage frame, or focused on CC (one has to be sacrificed over the other, as it is now). IF DE decides to make a separate system for these bonuses for specialization, then I wouldn't mind having a stat-less helmet. However, IF DE chose to do that it would've been a lot smarter to say so right away. There are a lot of players who want to specialize their frames as much as they can to suit a specific purpose. Whatever the system is, however it looks, doesn't matter. As long as it's there (now that we've had a taste of it).

That's the important part for me.