About Iron Phoenix And Crimson Dervish

[GlacierH20]

Ok so many people know that Crimson Dervish just simply is much much better than Iron Phoenix because of the 300% damage boost. Even though Iron Phoenix is faster and more mobile, Crimson Dervish absolutely wrecks face and Iron Phoenix doesnt even compare to it. So why not buff Iron Phoenix so it can get up to Crimson Dervishes level? Maybe make Iron Phoenix do 1.5 or even double the attack speed of your longsword? If Crimson Dervish was nerfed, it would cause an outrage for the people paying 100+ plat for it. If Iron Phoenix could get buffed so that your attack speed is greatly buffed, or even a mere 100% damage boost, that would be great. I feel like all stances should be all on the same level, but focusing on different aspects such as attack speed, damage, crit rate, etc. So why not make this happen with Crimson Dervish and Iron Phoenix?

[DeuceDevious]

I have a number of reasons why this post is ridiculous.

1) You say Dervish is better but you forget that its only better in damage and not speed and mobility.
People like you who think damage is everything should not have a say in how anything works. Iron phoenix is for those who want to attack fast and hit rapidly from one target to the other without being locked down for too long. THATS HOW BALANCE WORKS. Dervish is for those who want to "wreck face" and phoenix is for the quick and spry.

2) Who gives a crap about people paying plat for the stance. Thats THEIR choice. If a mod gets nerfed after their lazy asses bought it instead of farming for it, DE holds no responsibility for other's irresponsibility and impatience.

3) You say " I feel like all stances should be all on the same level, but focusing on different aspects such as attack speed, damage, crit rate, etc." but you clearly dont. If you did want that, youd notice that is how mods are as of right now.

Stop being a damage @#&*( and learn how to play differently.

[kaboomonme]

Well that escalated quickly.

Give the man a break, he's just making a suggestion.

Edited May 7, 2014 by kaboomonme

[Kripnex]

No, I think the solution is to buff Crimson to 400% damage.

[GlacierH20]

I have a number of reasons why this post is ridiculous.

1) flawed logic

2) flawed logic

3) flawed logic

random insult

I think you may have misunderstood me. I'm saying I think Iron Phoenix should get a small buff, as well as some other stances. If a stance is clearly better than another one for a certain weapon, then that is a problem. Crimson Dervish is slow, but not that slow considering it has a 300% damage buff. And you say people who buy stances are "lazy asses." What if they have been farming for weeks on end, and no result? If you've actually never tried farming it and just want to buy it, then you can call them a "lazy &#!." But this is usually not the case for most people, so you have absolutely no right to call them "impatient." Finally, stances are a fairly new thing and they do not have enough combos and variety to specialize in different aspects. It is pretty evident right now which stance is better than the other, which is the exact reason for my post. I feel like some stances should be buffed to specialize in a certain field, so both stances for a weapon type are on a equal level. I do not feel like Crimson Dervish and Iron Phoenix are not on an equal level right now, and many other players agree. So please, educate yourself and remember not to randomly insult people before you post.

Edited May 8, 2014 by GlacierH20

[Saenol]

Iron Phoenix is not deficient, even relative to Crimson Dervish. It has range, speed, resistance to interruption, lower stamina utilization, and guaranteed automatic PROCs that Dervish does not have.

 

Iron Phoenix is also uncommon, while Crimson Dervish is rare.

 

Iron Phoenix does not need a buff.

 

Iron Phoenix may well be the superior stance in many situations.

[Monolake]

Iron Phoenix also does  AOE knockdown with proc and 2 double damage attacks in the middle of  Taking Fligh (long combo)

 

However, Crimson Dervish  does x3 damage on first 3 attacks  = so any attack is 3x even if you don't continue a combo  - its not rewarding a timing or special button mashing, its just a straight x3 boost in damage.

 

combo multi and test results here https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/220181-stance-combo-multipliers-help-to-test-and-gather-info/

Edited May 8, 2014 by Monolake

[DeuceDevious]

I think you may have misunderstood me. I'm saying I think Iron Phoenix should get a small buff, as well as some other stances. If a stance is clearly better than another one for a certain weapon, then that is a problem. Crimson Dervish is slow, but not that slow considering it has a 300% damage buff. And you say people who buy stances are "lazy asses." What if they have been farming for weeks on end, and no result? If you've actually never tried farming it and just want to buy it, then you can call them a "lazy &#!." But this is usually not the case for most people, so you have absolutely no right to call them "impatient." Finally, stances are a fairly new thing and they do not have enough combos and variety to specialize in different aspects. It is pretty evident right now which stance is better than the other, which is the exact reason for my post. I feel like some stances should be buffed to specialize in a certain field, so both stances for a weapon type are on a equal level. I do not feel like Crimson Dervish and Iron Phoenix are not on an equal level right now, and many other players agree. So please, educate yourself and remember not to randomly insult people before you post.

Your entire thought process is flawed. 

You think damage is everything and its not. I could understand if Crimson was fast and OD powerful but it isnt. its slow and decisive, while phoenix is quick and weak. its the age old story and just because you arent doing 300% on one does not make it the flaw of the other, or vice versa.

Damage is not everything and you fail to realize that. 

Furthermore, regardless of how long theyve been farming, when players choose to pay for it, its exactly that: THEIR CHOICE. And whether you agree or not, it is lazy.

There are 28 different stances, all of which have different strengths and weaknesses that BALANCE out their utility. Just because one doesnt do enough damage in your eyes doesnt mean its flawed. Speedy stances gain multipliers faster than slower ones and allow for more hits and higher crit and status proc chances, and the slower ones do massive damage and take longer to get those multipliers, if at all. Quick mods allow for the dispense of multiple enemies without being slowed by your own attacks while slower mods let you slaughter enemies one by one methodically.There is plenty of variety and plenty to choose from but your choices are SEVERELY limited when all you want to see is damage numbers.

[Dalawantahr]

Everybody love to see high damage, nuff said. And yeah I buy things so I'm lazy, at least I'm not that stingy to myself. I value my time more than money.

[DeuceDevious]

Everybody love to see high damage, nuff said. And yeah I buy things so I'm lazy, at least I'm not that stingy to myself. I value my time more than money.

I buy S#&$ too. i got more plat than i know what to do with and im always tryna offload it for triple the price.

Paid 70 plat (just for the hell of it) for the berserker mod what i prolly could have gotten in a few tenno runs.

That kid was only selling it for 15 but he could put the plat to more use than i can currently. im lazy too. i call it like it is. 

[shut]

Iron Phoenix is not deficient, even relative to Crimson Dervish. It has range, speed, resistance to interruption, lower stamina utilization, and guaranteed automatic PROCs that Dervish does not have.

 

Iron Phoenix is also uncommon, while Crimson Dervish is rare.

 

Iron Phoenix does not need a buff.

 

Iron Phoenix may well be the superior stance in many situations.

 

+1.

 

Crimson Dervish has one advantage over Iron Phoenix, and that is that it hits harder in one swing. Iron Phoenix is much faster, and is easily capable of pulling off at least two swings in the time that CD can pull off one (meaning that it can easily reach over two thirds of its DPS without issue).

 

Combine that with the fact that IP is much more mobile and that it is much more compatible with Stealth Multipliers (To clarify, CD hardly even gets a boost from it because if you quadruple the damage of a one-hit-kill, you're still only going to get a one-hit-kill), and IP is easily a very viable alternative to CD. When using Loki, Ash, or Excal, it's actually practically a direct upgrade.

[Lolth]

Your completely wrong about Iron Phoenix, the Taking Flight combo has a 200% damage boost to the third and 4th hit with an AoE attack at the end of the combo with a 100% proc chance meaning if you have no element AoE knockdown and damage or innate element weapon deals that damage in an AoE and will proc the element.

[(PSN)Hard_CORE_Gmr]

I think this post is really short sighted insofar as it assumes a weakness of iron phoenix that those players who prefer the stance have already realized, you can mod for more damage, you can mod for greater speed, you can even get comparable dps with the proper build and some forma , but you cannot get that elemental AOE without Iron Phoenix. For that proc alone,players should realize the superior CC ability of iron phoenix. There's just no comparison and while Crimson dervish is excellent for single targets, that AOE wrecks in long survival and defenses when more enemies are attacking. I have both stances and see Crimson Dervish as a low to mid level survival/defense, boss stomper, but when play long survival/defense I prefer heavy elemental AOEto do the most damage to groups than to focus on one enemy.

Both have their uses and each user will bring their own build and playstyle to them that will make players value them differently. Considering this I find it hysterical that players spend 100+plat on any stance when they all are so play style dependant. Just goes to show you that the simple suggestion that one mod is better than another will inflate players expectations of a mod or weapon. Remember the longer you go in endless mission types base damage starts to get negate by resistances but elemental damage tends to remain potent, and depending on what you value more I guess the same expectation can be made for Iron Phoenix, but considering I got crimson dervish my first ceres run trying to farm for vaya hek , but had to buy my iron phoenix mod , I'm glad people think iron phoenix is weak and will sell it for practically nothing.

[BerelHawdos]

Iron Phoenix is not deficient, even relative to Crimson Dervish. It has range, speed, resistance to interruption, lower stamina utilization, and guaranteed automatic PROCs that Dervish does not have.

 

Iron Phoenix is also uncommon, while Crimson Dervish is rare.

 

Iron Phoenix does not need a buff.

 

Iron Phoenix may well be the superior stance in many situations.

Iron Phoenix is rare or was last time I checked. Though I did get 5 of them while farming for tranquil cleave.

[Draciusen]

I use Crimson Dervish if I want to OHKO things without fail, or cheese bosses quickly.

I use Iron Phoenix if I want to turn into a raging blender.

If anything, Iron Phoenix just needs a new combo to toy around with, one that preferrably does not utilize a movement key (hate those ones)

[Shreiko]

I buy S#&$ too. i got more plat than i know what to do with and im always tryna offload it for triple the price.

Paid 70 plat (just for the hell of it) for the berserker mod what i prolly could have gotten in a few tenno runs.

That kid was only selling it for 15 but he could put the plat to more use than i can currently. im lazy too. i call it like it is. 

Are you a troll? If so could you scuttle back beneath your bridge.