Moba Frame Confirmed

[EHDERCOOLSTE]

and btw there have been hapenings of 20+ ppl in 1 mission so i dont think 8 will be a huge problem

when have there been 20 people in one mission besides the dojos?

[XaxalShiba]

when have there been 20 people in one mission besides the dojos?

Twenty people on queue. It would be nice if they separated the queue's between the normal and nightmare versions of some missions. Had a number of issues getting into nightmare missions because of this.

[NexionSE]

when have there been 20 people in one mission besides the dojos?

well lets say that there have been plenty of bugs in the game and leave it at that?

[Grascen]

As an offhand example, my Ash has a build that requires, essentially, zero energy to stay in Stealth indefinitely (duration, energy effeciency, and energy siphon). I can imagine an actual player being quite irritated by that when I am at full power and at your butt constantly. 

 

"Invisibility" doesn't work against actual players. It "cloaks" you while making it impossible for the AI to aim directly at you.

 

The semi-transparency and the stealth crits are the only bonus you'll be getting out of pvp.

[SolidSp33d]

"Invisibility" doesn't work against actual players. It "cloaks" you while making it impossible for the AI to aim directly at you.

 

The semi-transparency and the stealth crits are the only bonus you'll be getting out of pvp.

 

...wat? I played conclave a week or so ago and the ash I was facing was completely invisible when using smokescreen. No semi-transparency. He was FULLY gone.

[.Talia.]

...wat? I played conclave a week or so ago and the ash I was facing was completely invisible when using smokescreen. No semi-transparency. He was FULLY gone.

 

That's because he was using pitch black energy (Last black color from Smoke pallete) That energy color is completely invisible for Ash.

 

You can still see that "Predator-like" effect on Loki even with that full black energy color tho, just Ash can be completely invisible. 

 

Using any other energy color, Ash can be seen fairly easily with an smoky effect, more obvious than Loki's invis effect.

Edited May 24, 2014 by RexSol

[Deidaku]

I'm going to try to be optimistic about it, but the thing that always ruins a game for me is when PVP starts dominating balance concerns over PVE. As an offhand example, my Ash has a build that requires, essentially, zero energy to stay in Stealth indefinitely (duration, energy effeciency, and energy siphon). I can imagine an actual player being quite irritated by that when I am at full power and at your butt constantly. 

That's just one example, and I'm sure people can think of more, but I'm curious how powers will work against other living players. It will require some tweaking for things to not feel overly cheap, and I hope that can be done in a way that doesn't adversely affect the PVE experience. 

 Can't wait to fight eclipse >:)

[Acos]

"Invisibility" doesn't work against actual players. It "cloaks" you while making it impossible for the AI to aim directly at you.

 

The semi-transparency and the stealth crits are the only bonus you'll be getting out of pvp.

 

If you use 'black' energy (from the smoke series) Ash is completely invisible. A player might still find you if they place a reticule over you, but any decent player who has played as a stealth class isn't going to find that much of a problem. 

Besides that, it was just an offhand example and not my primary point. My point is that PVP inevitably requires balance changes that do not necessarily align well with what is necessary in a PVE experience. Given that Rail PVP is going to have you fight against both a squad of Tenno as well as normal enemies, I imagine there will be some overlay in the complaints (Rhino can kill everything on the map in one hit! too OP!) or (Nova can also do that!) or (Banshee can lock down everything indefinitely!) or (Trinity is impossible to kill!) or (Oberon... nvm). 

Edited May 24, 2014 by Acos

[MerelyARumor]

As a person who has played many mobas, all i can say is....we have the perfect community in this game to become a moba....

Edited May 24, 2014 by MerelyARumor

[PsychedelicSnake]

As a person who has played many mobas, all i can say is....we have the perfect community in this game to become a moba....

[Tigersight]

I have mixed ideas like many other people. As a league player, I can understand how MOBA style PvP can be awesome. However, Warframe isn't balanced around that. The base damage of some guns, (read: all explosive weapons) is too high for it to be balanced in a game mode where everyone starts out at level 0. Here are a couple numbers that should easily show my point without being too complicated:

Rhino, most players' go-to tank takes 313 damage to kill at level 0.

 

The karak does ~27 damage per shot, ~12 rounds per second. So ~324 dps. It's enough to kill someone in 1 second if you don't miss, which is fast by shooter standards.

 

However.

 

The angstrum does 450 damage per shot, and can fire 3 rockets at once, in a spread pattern, so whoever you're shooting most likely can't dodge. Meaning you've got a one hit kill on one of the most tanky frames in the game.

 

(Note: Valkyr, with 350 effective health wouldn't survive either.)

 

Besides that, we've always had the issue that we can throw out WAY more damage than we can take, especially as the levels start rolling and your mods come online. But that's another argument entirely.

 

Basically, the game is balanced for PvE, which works completely different than PvP. Obvious, and something everyone has pointed out already, but it still holds true.

[Deidaku]

I have mixed ideas like many other people. As a league player, I can understand how MOBA style PvP can be awesome. However, Warframe isn't balanced around that. The base damage of some guns, (read: all explosive weapons) is too high for it to be balanced in a game mode where everyone starts out at level 0. Here are a couple numbers that should easily show my point without being too complicated:

Rhino, most players' go-to tank takes 313 damage to kill at level 0.

 

The karak does ~27 damage per shot, ~12 rounds per second. So ~324 dps. It's enough to kill someone in 1 second if you don't miss, which is fast by shooter standards.

 

However.

 

The angstrum does 450 damage per shot, and can fire 3 rockets at once, in a spread pattern, so whoever you're shooting most likely can't dodge. Meaning you've got a one hit kill on one of the most tanky frames in the game.

 

(Note: Valkyr, with 350 effective health wouldn't survive either.)

 

Besides that, we've always had the issue that we can throw out WAY more damage than we can take, especially as the levels start rolling and your mods come online. But that's another argument entirely.

 

Basically, the game is balanced for PvE, which works completely different than PvP. Obvious, and something everyone has pointed out already, but it still holds true.

For the explosives they could just drastically redcuce the ammo to balance that. A rocket launcher shouldn't have 524 rockets

[Azawarau]

"Noob, we lots becuz of u"

"U suck"

"DIE! U noob"

 

And much more friendly talk.

About the same more or less as what youd find in PvE

 

That's because he was using pitch black energy (Last black color from Smoke pallete) That energy color is completely invisible for Ash.

 

You can still see that "Predator-like" effect on Loki even with that full black energy color tho, just Ash can be completely invisible. 

 

Using any other energy color, Ash can be seen fairly easily with an smoky effect, more obvious than Loki's invis effect.

That needs to be fixed ASAP

 

For the explosives they could just drastically redcuce the ammo to balance that. A rocket launcher shouldn't have 524 rockets

Itd honestly probably be better to drastically lower the damage and make it a powerful but not absolutely broken burst thatll pick off soft frames and heavily damage tougher ones

[SolidSp33d]

That's because he was using pitch black energy (Last black color from Smoke pallete) That energy color is completely invisible for Ash.

 

You can still see that "Predator-like" effect on Loki even with that full black energy color tho, just Ash can be completely invisible. 

 

Using any other energy color, Ash can be seen fairly easily with an smoky effect, more obvious than Loki's invis effect.

 

They should probably fix that before launching the gametype.

[Deidaku]

 

 

Itd honestly probably be better to drastically lower the damage and make it a powerful but not absolutely broken burst thatll pick off soft frames and heavily damage tougher ones

I disagree . what's the point of having a grenade launcher if a pistlo or a rifle can deal more damage?

 

Damage could remain the same (+ you need to "lvl up your mods) there fore you must manage to hit somone in that super fast paced acrobatic battlefield. It seems difficult