I Think It's Time Boltor Prime Stops Rendering ~130 Weapons Obsolete

[fatpig84]

Today I learned that no gun is different at all, that theres only one faction, theres only one game type, the boltor prime is quick / easy to obtain outside of trading and that absolutely no weapon can out DPS the boltor prime.

 

Its also sad that this forum doesn't support sarcasm tags, because the entire sentence above has it.

 

I have a boltor prime, its not my used weapon by a mile. I have and actively use different weapons for different situations, for the very same reason I bought more frame slots and have 10 frames. The boltor prime is high end of average, but it falls short of god tier by a large margin. It rewards bad play / skill, I'll give you that, but it most certainly doesn't obsolete 130 weapons.

 

I think the issue is because it is easier to use than things like Latron Prime / Burston Prime etc and the fact you can get it pretty easily with Prime access or trading.

 

But yes I do agree with you, the Boltor Prime isn't anywhere near the top for me.

My Latron prime and Marelok is still my favourite end tier weapon (because I like to aim accurately :p).

[Arblarg]

I think the issue is because it is easier to use than things like Latron Prime / Burston Prime etc and the fact you can get it pretty easily with Prime access or trading.

 

But yes I do agree with you, the Boltor Prime isn't anywhere near the top for me.

My Latron prime and Marelok is still my favourite end tier weapon (because I like to aim accurately :p).

So then we mastery lock it to 8 and above (excluding people who buy prime access). Honestly, there needs to be a major overhaul on when things can be obtained. That and I specifically said outside of trading, because ofc, that makes anything easy to get.

 

Honestly though, needs less nerfing and more incentive / bonuses to use weapons that do require some skill. Rather than having a shared headshot multiplier on all weapons, increase it for semi-automatic / sniper / bow weapons. Auto-rifle-babbies will spray and pray to their hearts content because its easy mode, add in a little bit of precision and a different weapon and you can be out DPS'ing that boltor-babbie in no time.

[Ammolds]

If we'd go back in time. A time when Boltor Prime wasn't around.

 

Do you really think there wasn't a gun dominating every other gun?

 

Of course there was, which renders this directed disapproval towards a single weapon, rather redundant.

 

Not saying a check on weapon power would be a bad thing. I just don't see a nerf to Boltor Prime as a solution to this predicament.

[Cursor]

If we'd go back in time. A time when Boltor Prime wasn't around.

 

Do you really think there wasn't a gun dominating every other gun?

 

Of course there was, which renders this directed disapproval towards a single weapon, rather redundant.

 

Not saying a check on weapon power would be a bad thing. I just don't see a nerf to Boltor Prime as a solution to this predicament.

 

Yeah, but now that gun is obsolete.

 

What's more, the gap between strong weapons and weak weapons was much, much smaller, way back when.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Cursor

[Vaskadar]

Yeah, but now that gun is obsolete.

 

What's more, the gap between strong weapons and weak weapons was much, much smaller, way back when.

 

This is very true. The gap *was* far smaller, and the game was also much simpler, with less grind.

[Garuger]

This is very true. The gap *was* far smaller, and the game was also much simpler, with less grind.

Way back then we did not had a ton of weapons we had Gorgon /Hek for high level context . Besides before Boltor Prime Soma was making all the other weapons seem useless so it good to see Soma to have a competitor . Besides Boltor Prime is not SUPREME Burston Prime outdamages it Ampex red crit out damages it Paris Prime out damages it and even soma is close to it.The problem is not the weapons it is the lack of end game contect that does not allow to DE to truly balance them 

[Warriorrogue]

 

If we'd go back in time. A time when Boltor Prime wasn't around.

 

Do you really think there wasn't a gun dominating every other gun?

 

Of course. Acrid 2013.

[BloodArmoredApostle]

We can suggest balance before the limits of endgame, because when the graph of weapon power looks like this, it breaks player choice:

 

                                                                                                                x    -     that x is boltor prime

                                                                                               xxxxxxxxxxx

        xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxx

 

The issue isn't that there's an obscenely powerful weapon.

 

It's that there's ONE obscenely powerful weapon, and it has negligible drawbacks to use, so it's just better than everything else in nearly every situation.

 

The issue is that If you want to play endless modes and you don't take that single obscenely powerful weapon you are self-handapping how far you can be useful to your team. Didn't feel like bringing Boltor Prime? = "dude yr nooob why you no take boltor p". You are now doing 1 damage while your team is dealing hundreds per shot. You have less choice.

 

It's also that the one obscenely powerful weapon is accessible at nearly the start of the game, so it totally breaks the progression curve.

 

It's also that the one obscenely powerful weapon has no limits or drawbacks to using it in low or mid level content - so it becomes the best choice even if you're a Rank 2 player on Earth.

 

It doesn't matter if DE's going to make level 200 enemies next week. At that time, they'll make 50K DPS weapons to go along with them. And hopefully they'll make a lot of them, so we have variety...instead of just a Penta Vandal. And hopefully those 50K DPS weapons won't be accessible to low rank players who don't need them.

 

But right now, we don't need that weapon, and its existence without any drawbacks or limitations does nothing besides make 130 other weapons a bad choice in all 'long wave survival' content.

 

Note - My solution would not be to reduce the DPS. It would be to make the weapon have a higher mastery rank and make it more skill based (lower projectile speed etc)

Even with this as your suggested proposal, there are weapons that exist in that range as a means of choice. You dont have to have a boltor prime to be useful in a mission where everyone is going 30+mins survival/defense. I don't even use boltor prime that often. I use my braton prime/dread/gorgon wraith as my weapons of choice and I do well for whatever the situation maybe. 130 weapons are made useless by one. That is just your opinion of that matter. There are other weapons that can be made viable through other means than just pure damage. Yes, you need a weapon to do enough damage to make headway in some situations, but you already should know that pure damage doesn't mean you will kill higher tier enemies quickly/faster. You need status chance and elements that will change the battlefield in your favor. Boltor Prime is pure DPS and low status chance. The max your can get it is 43% which is good, but event mods are needed for that. 

 

There are other weapons with better status chance that make a better choice than just pure damage. If all anyone is looking at is damage then that is definitely the wrong way to go. You need elements for a reason. So, boltor prime is really limited in that department of being a weapon that scales infinitely. There are other weapons that would do better at higher levels that boltor prime due to that status chance or critical chance factor. Your suggestion of skill in this game is subjective as well. According to what you see is "skill" your adjustments would be your suggestion in the matter.

[PeripheralVisionary]

It feels like DE just slaps on random OP stats for their newer weapons without using a calculator.

[ZeGreymane]

No a lot about Boltor Prime balance, just one thing about complain about "No" post.

 

Adding an option to downvote post could help, if we can mark that we're aggree with a post/topic, add the possibilty to mark that we're disagree could be a balanced feature... (nerf kikoo upvoting only, let us be disagree, perhaps less troll after§§§)

 

And please, stop call troll or forum cancer people how are not agree with you...

 

And please accept that if you don't want try defense >50 waves, some people want to try it and need decent dps to deal with level >80.

Some "OP" weapon, need to stay on this game, nerf for balance, according to weapon's tier, ok.

Nerf to the ground....

Warframe need to keep differents weapons tier, some easy to acquire but not really powerful, some hard to acquire, really powerfull. Adding some progression in inventory and way to play it, adding some difficulty and way to deal with other time.

Comparaison between different tier weapon can't be an argument to call a nerf...

 

And personnaly, I've craft the boltor, forma to maxxed build, and now, it's waiting in the inventory, so,

 

NO

 

This weapon totally don't put all other weapon to the trash, have you ever try some penta/ogris/bow/soma/amprex/boar prime?

All as "op" as the botlor prime, every in a different gamestyle, "end game" differents style of weapon.

Personnaly, I hope you'll never try it, cause I'm a bit tired of "opppppp, nerf itttt topics" (imho).

Edited June 10, 2014 by ZeGreymane

[low1991]

-The reason as to why players need to hold on longer in T3S is due to the crappy reward table.

 

-Acrid is officially dead. 

 

-nerf'ing/ buffing is part of an online game. Deal with it.

[Garuger]

 

-nerf'ing/ buffing is part of an online game. Deal with it.

It is not that simple for Warframe however because it lacks one major thing End Game.All Games are balanced around low , mid and end context this game cant do that because it lacks that .thus this is why we have these "nerf" posts because end games weapons dont have currently a place DE added mechanics and weapons (forma /boltor prime etc ) that are meant for end game without end game existing thus you must blame DE and not the weapons 

Edited June 10, 2014 by Garuger

[ZeGreymane]

Really need a downvote feature...

 

EDIT : Somebody have replies \o/

 

 

It is not that simple for Warframe however because it lacks one major thing End Game.All Games are balanced around low , mid and end context this game cant do that because it lacks that .thus this is why we have these "nerf" posts because end games weapons dont have currently a place DE added mechanics and weapons (forma /boltor prime etc ) that are meant for end game without end game existing thus you must blame DE and not the weapons 

 

I am pretty agree with the start of your post but got something to add.

We got some end game (survival > 45 min, defense > 30 waves)

 

A problem could be that we got to play 30-40 min before reach an "end-game" content...

Dark sector haven't really solve this problem of "easy and long start to show a true difficulty"

But...

Notice that more than 50% of people in Pluton Dark sector don't try more than 5 waves/5minutes (only if a Wild Vauban as appear turning end game content is mid/easy/only dps needed tier). -> this is not a call for a Vauban nerf, more give us an usable balanced version of trinity. :)

 

Ask for end game content (to farm 5 min on it for reward) is something, play it (for fun, challenge of nice teamwork) is another. :p

Edited June 10, 2014 by ZeGreymane

[Garuger]

Really need a downvote feature...

I never understood why we dont have it because ppl with logic would down vote such posts but trolls and illogical ppl can constantly up-vote them and constantly showing of their displeasure for not having that weapon at that level other has it and with the same amount of forma . It is like DE wants to listen the trolls more than reasonable ppl 

[Detheroc]

It feels like DE just slaps on random OP stats for their newer weapons without using a calculator.

Not random OP stats. Just for the weapon models they like it seems. Compare Pyrana to Marelok. Pyrana is a Shotgun with less damage even up close than Marelok does over far greater distances. Also the ludicrous recoil the Pyrana has doesnt make it better. Im sure nobody will go full auto beyond the distance of 5 metres. And please dont go "But you cannot compare a Shotgun to a Lever action pistol." Its about raw damage stats.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Detheroc

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

Of course. Acrid 2013.

Never forget.

[BloodArmoredApostle]

Really need a downvote feature...

 

EDIT : Somebody have replies \o/

 

 

 

I am pretty agree with the start of your post but got something to add.

We got some end game (survival > 45 min, defense > 30 waves)

 

A problem could be that we got to play 30-40 min before reach an "end-game" content...

Dark sector haven't really solve this problem of "easy and long start to show a true difficulty"

But...

Notice that more than 50% of people in Pluton Dark sector don't try more than 5 waves/5minutes (only if a Wild Vauban as appear turning end game content is mid/easy/only dps needed tier). -> this is not a call for a Vauban nerf, more give us an usable balanced version of trinity. :)

 

Ask for end game content (to farm 5 min on it for reward) is something, play it (for fun, challenge of nice teamwork) is another. :p

There is a perfectly good reason for not having a downvote button. It would attract flamers and derailment even more. So, there is a perfectly good reason for not having that. The context "We got some end game" is your opinion and not the actual truth. Due to lack of "End Game Content", the player base has "surmised/assumed" what is end game content which it actually isn't. End Game is a term for harder difficulties and the confusion there is just the assumption of the masses.

 

Also there is Youtube for downvotes.

 

I never understood why we dont have it because ppl with logic would down vote such posts but trolls and illogical ppl can constantly up-vote them and constantly showing of their displeasure for not having that weapon at that level other has it and with the same amount of forma . It is like DE wants to listen the trolls more than reasonable ppl 

This statement is a blanket statement. I would doubt the developers would only look at the Majority suggestion without taking into consideration the other factors presented by other players. That in and of itself wouldn't be fair nor would it make sense being the Developers of the game. Every bit of information is key to creating a great game. This definition of who is reasonable and who is not is also subjective. So, whoever is reasonable according to "whomever" deems it is unreasonable. That isn't a fair way to look any situation regarding a debate.

 

 

It feels like DE just slaps on random OP stats for their newer weapons without using a calculator.

Bolter Prime has a limit it is pure dps. No good status/critical chance invovled which means boltor prime will drop off fairly quickly just like the Soma (Soma is built for pure damage/critical damage, and all damage falls off without elements for status effects in place). If you only look at DPS as the deciding factor..then the weapon you choose when it gets past level 35-40 enemies I can guarantee will fail you. This is presuming you haven't taken thought to elements and the status chances relative to the battle you are engaged in. 

Edited June 10, 2014 by BloodArmoredApostle

[FaintestAura]

There can never be anything fun in the game anymore without someone wanting to get it nerfed to the ground. If you want to take your 4 forma'd boltor prime to Mercury that's up to the player. This prime weapon is one of the few primes that are worth maxing out. So what you are thinking of doing is shattering the people who spent the time and/or money in order to get it. 

 

I understand you are upset about how powerful it is but every weapon has a limitation. You should consider the repercussions of your decision before posting something like this. It's not like you can buy the blueprint from the market or clan tech, it takes time. I do not agree with a nerf to the boltor prime.Especially considering that would be a wasted 4 forma.  

[notionphil]

Even with this as your suggested proposal, there are weapons that exist in that range as a means of choice. You dont have to have a boltor prime to be useful in a mission where everyone is going 30+mins survival/defense. I don't even use boltor prime that often. I use my braton prime/dread/gorgon wraith as my weapons of choice and I do well for whatever the situation maybe. 130 weapons are made useless by one. That is just your opinion of that matter. There are other weapons that can be made viable through other means than just pure damage. Yes, you need a weapon to do enough damage to make headway in some situations, but you already should know that pure damage doesn't mean you will kill higher tier enemies quickly/faster. You need status chance and elements that will change the battlefield in your favor. Boltor Prime is pure DPS and low status chance. The max your can get it is 43% which is good, but event mods are needed for that. 

 

There are other weapons with better status chance that make a better choice than just pure damage. If all anyone is looking at is damage then that is definitely the wrong way to go. You need elements for a reason. So, boltor prime is really limited in that department of being a weapon that scales infinitely. There are other weapons that would do better at higher levels that boltor prime due to that status chance or critical chance factor. Your suggestion of skill in this game is subjective as well. According to what you see is "skill" your adjustments would be your suggestion in the matter.

 

I actually agree with the logic behind your opinion...however the gun doesn't work as you're saying in practice. Also, as I said, I don't think the DPS needs adjustment - my issue is with the 'well roundedness'.

 

Also, note that a 43% status chance when you're putting out 10 rounds a second is 4 procs per second. Thats...not exactly a huge limitation in practice. You're proccing nearly everything you engage.

 

If I were balancing Boltor Prime I'd also reduce bolt speed and drop status chance to zero. You want the highest single target DPS in game? OK, but you're going to have to work a little bit to apply it, and you're not going to proc, ever.

 

Choices.

 

IMO balance is only about one thing: making sure the player has as many valid, non-handicapping choices as possible. There should always be a valid argument of why I should take this rifle (10K DPS + good status) versus that rifle(13K DPS no status), versus the other rifle (15K DPS burst, 7K sustaned). Or why a rifle at all versus a flamethrower (6K DPS AoE).

 

Choice is quickly squashed when one weapon does everything as well in practice as everything else.

 

I don't agree with the OP's exact statement "130 weapons are made useless by one". My opinion is more like "one weapon really breaks the progression curve of the game, is way too easy to obtain and use for how much damage it puts out, and makes other single target DPS weapons feel like a self handicap".

Edited June 10, 2014 by notionphil

[BloodArmoredApostle]

I actually agree with the logic behind your opinion...however the gun doesn't work as you're saying in practice. Also, as I said, I don't think the DPS needs adjustment - my issue is with the 'well roundedness'.

 

Also, note that a 43% status chance when you're putting out 10 rounds a second is 4 procs per second. Thats...not exactly a huge limitation in practice. You're proccing nearly everything you engage.

 

If I were balancing Boltor Prime I'd also reduce bolt speed and drop status chance to zero. You want the highest single target DPS in game? OK, but you're going to have to work a little bit to apply it, and you're not going to proc, ever.

 

Choices.

 

IMO balance is only about one thing: making sure the player has as many valid, non-handicapping choices as possible. There should always be a valid argument of why I should take this rifle (10K DPS + good status) versus that rifle(13K DPS no status), versus the other rifle (15K DPS burst, 7K sustaned). Or why a rifle at all versus a flamethrower (6K DPS AoE).

 

Choice is quickly squashed when one weapon does everything as well in practice as everything else.

 

I don't agree with the OP's exact statement "130 weapons are made useless by one". My opinion is more like "one weapon really breaks the progression curve of the game, is way too easy to obtain and use for how much damage it puts out, and makes other single target DPS weapons feel like a self handicap".

I agree to some of what you are saying here. If the progression bar seems broken then a mastery lock should be in place for it, and the thought that boltor prime is the "best weapon" i believe is a myth. It has the best dps, but I have seen my 6 forma boltor fail many a time before due to the lack of status chance or critical for scaling. There are better weapons out there for scaling and bows do great for that, which is one suggestion.

[__Kanade__]

Maybe it should, maybe it shouldn't, prime weapons are said to be more for ornamental or ceremonial use which usually means they are weaker. But they're also supposed to be the original weapons so maybe they should be a bit stronger, not alot stronger or flat out upgrade being their reverse engineered from an old era and reverse engineered items and such are never the same as the originals.

 

DE may not like seeing nerf threads over and over, but they also don't like seeing replies just saying "no", why do you just say "no"? What kind of feedback is that? If anything, if your not providing any sort of feedback to back your claim other than just saying "no", then DE may just as well as listen to the OP and provide their own feedback if they aren't going to get it from the community.

Edited June 10, 2014 by __Kanade__

[SirProper]

I can understand your reasoning. I can even agree with your logic. I think your biggest issues is acknowledging what others are saying when it comes to people who aren't listening even while responding.

 

As it stands right now. I only take the gun when I want to make things dead, and when I am doing something ridiculous.

 

Then again I am almost always running around with something I am leveling rather than using my best gear that I get no value out of at this point.

 

I can't rank up if I use lvl 30 gear, so for me it isn't even an issue.

 

My issue with your argument is simple. I just can't care. Here's why: If things die faster in a level that I am trying to complete, it doesn't really matter. If I want to kill a lot of things, and be the specialist butterfly, then I can solo, play only with my friends, or go play a mode where it is impossible for them to kill everything, because there are so many enemies.

 

If they want to run around forever in a maxxed out Rhino with a Soma/Boltor Prime and a brakk, with a Dragon Ninkana, it just doesn't matter. They won't rank up, and if DE ever decides to release  something that requires super high ranks then guess what you are not going to see for awhile? None of there codex entries are getting filled out. They aren't even participating in the fabric in the game.

 

Power creep? meh. I have played for hundreds of hours. I have played much of that with weapons being leveled versus ubers. I know the new user experience back when it was a lot less fun. Plenty of things to work towards that are way cooler than what I got to start with. Hell I remember the absolute grind that existed before. 

 

If people are sinking the time into void running early and want to ruin there experience why should I care? There are literally hundreds of thousands more than that number playing the game that DE has put together in a way that respects the intentions of DE in regards to design. DE also allows freedom to play the game how we want, which includes Derp mchappy pants running around in all lvl 30 gear never to rank up evermore. 

 

Maybe that person has done everything they want to do. Maybe they have played for 1000 hours or more and literally have everything. To be honest I couldn't care less about either of them. One isn't concerned with trying to find the new experience, they are veni vidi vici maybe they should move on, or just work at giving back to the community. Hell it is almost impossible for me to give stuff away that is prime. The other has played this game more than even some of the longest RPG's maybe they should move on as well.

 

Why should I care? PVP? That is so not ready for consumption yet. I personally feel that DE included that just to make people happy, but as it stands it is a who did what first, more than a battle of skill.

[Gildemesh]

I've never used Boltor Prime, but I've seen it in action. It needs to be changed.

[BloodArmoredApostle]

I've never used Boltor Prime, but I've seen it in action. It needs to be changed.

Too broad please clarify...

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

I've never used Boltor Prime, but I've seen it in action. It needs to be changed.

 

I agree...  It "needs" a buff for sure... Right?  XD

Edited June 10, 2014 by sushidubya