Grindwalls In General

[Deidaku]

I just wanted to share my opinion about them and see your thoughts guys.

 

Well , I'm not sure how I feel about those .

 

They are necessary in a way. DE can't Just release content for the playerbase to power through it in a matter of hours.

 

And since content is released by small amounts ( 1 prime set or 1 frame , 1 weapon ) except for event or Big main updates. Grindwallls to me are just a way to increase the longevity of the game.

 

Zephyr is a good example. The oxmium amout demaned was high but with some alerts and a few  worthwhile corpus missions you get enough oxmium. You know what you need , how to get it , and whatever you do you're always progressing towards your goal .

 

 

 

But the problem is that you add RNG in a grindwall and you may have days or even weeks before you can get 1 part of the weapons , frame or item you desire.

 

Well the void. I don't even need to explain you know the problem. 

 

Personally I want rhino prime. but After asking around and watching trade chat I gave up , People grinding for weeks to get 1 part. I can't play the same game and the same mission for weeks just to obtain 1 frame! that's a guaranteed burnout and game quit.

 

Anyway please share your opinion and thoughts below :)

[PsychedelicSnake]

Grindwalls are necessary in all games. The problem Warframe seems to be having at the moment, like you said, is mixing RNG in with that. But not just any RNG... Pure RNG. The beyond random kind.

 

Someone suggested a Pseudo-RNG that I really liked. I'll try to find it.

[Deidaku]

Grindwalls are necessary in all games. The problem Warframe seems to be having at the moment, like you said, is mixing RNG in with that. But not just any RNG... Pure RNG. The beyond random kind.

 

Someone suggested a Pseudo-RNG that I really liked. I'll try to find it.

Pseudo RNG, wonder how that works. I hope you find it :)

[KeepOnFlowing]

I personally believe grind walls are necessary no matter what anybody says. It's a grind game. Let it be.

Edited June 12, 2014 by BecomeLikeWater

[123Olympian]

They should be how they used to be.

 

Small, practical, and easy to jump over.

 

These were infused with fun, holding the wall together.

 

Now, there is too much grind(i.e. oxium and argons, hek, t4 screwups), and the wall will fall soon(as devs have not givening to much attention even though they said it in a livestream in front of our faces) as not much is holding it together.

 

Grindwalls should be used sparingly, yet not for fluf

[Arvenski]

Grinding may be needed in games, but this game is nothing but incessant grinding, unless you just play a mission for fun and forget trying to level something or get resources or bp's or whatever. If it wasn't for the grind, there might not be a reason to play much of the game. I don't like that. 

[PsychedelicSnake]

Pseudo RNG, wonder how that works. I hope you find it :)

If I remember correctly, it was something along the lines of this. I'll use the Void as an example.

 

With the Pure RNG we have right now, you get what you get. It is completely random.

 

With what I read (again, if I remember correctly), Void Drops will become more likely to drop the more you don't get it. So if you are looking for, say, a Braton Prime Receiver but all you ever get is a Burston Prime BP, the more you don't get what you are looking for the more likely you are to get it. Basically, the more unlucky you get, the higher your chances of eventually getting what you want. It increases the chance of finding what you are grinding for but also reducing the grind, but not enough to trivialize it.

[Deidaku]

They should be how they used to be.

 

Small, practical, and easy to jump over.

 

These were infused with fun, holding the wall together.

 

Now, there is too much grind(i.e. oxium and argons, hek, t4 screwups), and the wall will fall soon(as devs have not givening to much attention even though they said it in a livestream in front of our faces) as not much is holding it together.

 

Grindwalls should be used sparingly, yet not for fluf

Also you should be able to see the end of the grind.

 

I don't want to grind for something to infinity and beyond

 

Not everyone can  or wants to spend +100 € $ on 1 warframe , no matter how cool it looks 

[koolen]

when I started WF, one year ago, I tried after2-3 weeks, to build the kunais, it was hard: 3000 ferrite, 4000 nano spore, 3000 salvage and 5 morphics.

But each time I was rewarded with 400 ferrite (or less) in defense, I was like: "ok, just 800 more, then I'll farm for the salvages :)"

Why do I say that ? Because at this time, building something was not pure RNG, actually people don't know when they will find the part they search, 1 hour, 1 day, 1 week... Nobody knows.

We can't be optimistic, we don't even know when the grind will finish, I would like a prime system, that allow you to know when you will stop grinding, I know grinding is an important part in this game, and I like it when it is well implented, but prime grinding is all but not well implented.

You should change it now DE, people are getting more and more angry each time you release a new prime, and don't take notes of their feedback.

Someday, players will be bored of being angry, be careful, DE, your player base is not your dog, it's a wild kubrow.

Edited June 12, 2014 by koolen

[Deidaku]

If I remember correctly, it was something along the lines of this. I'll use the Void as an example.

 

With the Pure RNG we have right now, you get what you get. It is completely random.

 

With what I read (again, if I remember correctly), Void Drops will become more likely to drop the more you don't get it. So if you are looking for, say, a Braton Prime Receiver but all you ever get is a Burston Prime BP, the more you don't get what you are looking for the more likely you are to get it. Basically, the more unlucky you get, the higher your chances of eventually getting what you want. It increases the chance of finding what you are grinding for but also reducing the grind, but not enough to trivialize it.

Oh nice that's quite interesting. 

 

Would be amazing for void survival farmers

 

Wait but drops would have to be individualized and mixed right?

 

Because if 1 guy only drops Paris prime BP , and the other guy frops Dakra prime BP. Who gets what in the end ( same with a  team of 4)

Edited June 12, 2014 by Deidaku

[(PSN)Big_Rig_Brently]

Everyones got to have the new toy's but don't want to work for them. It's a grind game.......stop your crying already

[koolen]

Everyones got to have the new toy's but don't want to work for them. It's a grind game.......stop your crying already

there is a difference between grind, and the RNG walls that we call "void"

[grillv20]

grindwalls should only be necessary if whatever you're grinding for is the best of the best. there is no reason for argon crystal crap going on with the loki prime 

[Deidaku]

Everyones got to have the new toy's but don't want to work for them. It's a grind game.......stop your crying already

Looks like you didn't read what I wrote. This game needs grindwalls but not RNG. 2 different things.

 

DE put RNG in big grindwalls. that's annoying as hell and the main problem of this game.

Edited June 12, 2014 by Deidaku

[Deidaku]

I personally believe grind walls are necessary no matter what anybody says. It's a grind game. Let it be.

Agreed. they should stay but don't add RNG inside of them that just makes thing frustrating.

 

it's like metaphorically adding soap , oil , nails and razor blades on the grindwall so that people can't climb to the top , ever.

[ManicPhilosopher]

Everyones got to have the new toy's but don't want to work for them. It's a grind game.......stop your crying already

 

I found the white knight...

[KeepOnFlowing]

Agreed. they should stay but don't add RNG inside of them that just makes thing frustrating.

 

it's like metaphorically adding soap , oil , nails and razor blades on the grindwall so that people can't climb to the top , ever.

My rival agrees with me. See everyone! Peace is possible!

[Deidaku]

when I started WF, one year ago, I tried after2-3 weeks, to build the kunais, it was hard: 3000 ferrite, 4000 nano spore, 3000 salvage and 5 morphics.

But each time I was rewarded with 400 ferrite (or less) in defense, I was like: "ok, just 800 more, then I'll farm for the salvages :)"

Why do I say that ? Because at this time, building something was not pure RNG, actually people don't know when they will find the part they search, 1 hour, 1 day, 1 week... Nobody knows.

We can't be optimistic, we don't even know when the grind will finish, I would like a prime system, that allow you to know when you will stop grinding, I know grinding is an important part in this game, and I like it when it is well implented, but prime grinding is all but not well implented.

You should change it now DE, people are getting more and more angry each time you release a new prime, and don't take notes of their feedback.

Someday, players will be bored of being angry, be careful, DE, your player base is not your dog, it's a wild kubrow.

My point excactly yes. You should always be able to progeress towards your goal no matter what. even if it takes a long time you know you're getting closer and closer = bigger sense of achievement.

With RNG = "welp I just got lucky"

[Deidaku]

My rival agrees with me. See everyone! Peace is possible!

[123Olympian]

Also you should be able to see the end of the grind.

 

I don't want to grind for something to infinity and beyond

 

Not everyone can  or wants to spend +100 € $ on 1 warframe , no matter how cool it looks 

Agreed, and also for the money-this is a M rated game. Mind some of us are not rich snobs and we have something called college.

 

 

My rival agrees with me. See everyone! Peace is possible!

 

It's called pride sweat.

[Zarfilg]

The main problem with Warframe and it's Grindwall/RNG is the fact that the game play is hallow and repetitive. If the game play was a little more compelling it would not leave such a bad taste in your mouth.

[rangeless]

Token system. TOKEN SYSTEM! How many ways do we have to repeat ourselves?

 

It does not have be all one currency...it can be divided into tiers too....

[(PSN)Big_Rig_Brently]

Looks like you didn't read what I wrote. This game needs grindwalls but not RNG. 2 different things.

 

DE put RNG in big grindwalls. that's annoying as hell and the main problem of this game.

I play the game for fun and if it takes 100 missions to get the parts thats fine not annoying. If your not having fun then find another game. 

[(PSN)xXJAXATTAKSXx]

That guilt you felt when you saw an hour on the survival clock and only had credits to show for it.

 

RNG takes an hour of life and turns it into fake money.

[InritusOO]

The problem with the current grind system is that there is no perception of progress, or illusion of progress either. We can go for days while still running into a brick wall.

 

Let's take roguelikes, RNG incarnate. Most roguelikes are based off of luck getting the items, skills, and locations you need to get. That being said, there is enough consolation and diversion that even if you don't get what you wanted, you don't go away with useless clutter either. Don't get the sword you wanted, well at least you've gotten a good suit of armor instead. Didn't find the skill books you wanted? At least your other skills have gotten experience. (NB: This is primarily from my experience playing Dwarf Fortress Adventure mode and Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead)

 

Now the problem becomes, how can there be a perception of progress? A pseudo-RNG that subtly affects player's is probably the best way to solve this. Because let's face it, RNG is there to try to distract us from the grind (It's basically gambling). "This thing may only have 1% of dropping, but I might get lucky this time." That is more or less the only thing that prevents us from getting sick of the grind really. Removing RNG is basically a death sentence, because sometimes the unknown is more captivating than the known. However, the RNG should serve to entertain the player, not make us sacrifice 7 newborn kittens every new moon.

 

P.S. That is the way to appease the RNG God, right?

Edited June 13, 2014 by InritusOO