How To Easily Fix Warframe

[Tesseract_The_Pariah]

Hello, community and DE members!  This is not a hate thread.  This is not me being bitter.  This is me being realistic and optimistic for the future of this unique gem of a game(I mean, in what other game can you run around ON WALLS AS A SPACE NINJA PIRATE DEEP ONE AND DECAPITATING A SUPER SPACE ZOMBIE WITH A SUPERHEATED THROWING DISC AND THEN DROP ONTO THE GROUND, SLAMMING SAID DISC INTO THE GROUND AND INCINERATING HIS FRIENDS?  Did I mention none of this is in a cutscene?).  I only have the best intentions in mind posting this, and the most positive of attitudes, and I expect everyone else who posts in this thread to have a likewise mindset.  

Warframe has issues, yes.  But what doesnt?  It's a great game despite its many flaws and shortcomings, and knowing DE, they will continue driving it forward into greater heights.  Anywho, here are my three subsections of feedback - feel free to add on!  

The three greatest issues with Warframe:

1. The Grind.
2. RNG.
(One and two are actually seperate, more on that later of course.)
3. The community's attitude.

Now, in greater detail -

---

The grind.

Ah yes, there is a reason why this game is nicknamed Grindframe.  Many tend to mix this in with RNG, and let me tell you, it is justified, but the design of the game and the rng system both have different symptoms and causes.  For instance, Vay Hek.  It's a compounded issue of both grind and RNG, with those various beacons.  There was also a bit of an issue with Lephantis, but that's been bandaged fairly well - still not as nice as I'd like, but well enough.

De have designed this game to be very grind intensive, where acquiring keys are concerned.  Especially Vay Hek and Lephantis - a trend I can see reoccuring with Infested Alad V, out tomorrow.  This kind of grind is not fun - looking for rare enemy types and only having a small percentile chance of getting one piece of a key that gives you a small chance of getting what you want.  I'm looking at you, hydroid.

The Vay hek issue could be fixed by just requiring you to kill say, 5 prosecutors to be able to craft a key.  

This issue is mixed in with RNG, so that's immediately next.  But know that the grind is what's whittling this game down right now, and I'd love to see it alleivated.  I'll cover solutions to both of these issues in the next section.

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The RNG

RNG, my old friend.  Or not.  

Look, running voids over and over after grinding the keys is not fun.  The void is where this is a real issue, DE, and you can easily fix this by simply adding in a token system - it would award you with tokens that could be redeemed for prime parts.  For an example of a reward system I'd find satisfying:

Completed a mission = 1 token+ 1 per the tier of the void.
Completed a challenge room = 1 token
Killed Vor = 1 Token

This would greately simplify things and make the game feel more fair.

This way, we have a definitive way of working towards what we want instead of RNG plaguing us.  Another area suffering RNG issues is bosses and their frame drops.  Easy fix.

Give the player parts that he doesnt have.  Set it so that if I have Hydroid chassis I'm guaranteed systems or helmets, and the same logic for other parts.  Make this work for Stalker, g3 Zanuka and perhaps corrupt mods too.  (Still make their chance of dropping an item at all low, so that they're still difficult to acquire)

By simply giving is definite chances to get things you'll see the attitude of the community dramatically improve - and you'll need to waste no more time with void drop tables and RNG.

Point is, you can bandaid RNG and make us grind more(an act that not many enjoy) or you could cut it out entirely and replace it with a more straightforward system.  Simplify drop tables and such.

Oh, speaking of which..  Stance drops.  Make those more fair.  Give us a greater, more increasing chance that a stance for the melee weapon we have equipped will drop the more we kill with it in a mission, cumulative over many missions.  This way, you can actually WORK towards something.  

You can tweak drop chances by percentage all you want, but reactive drop chances and token systems are the best way to go.

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The Community.

Improve your attitudes and expectations.  DE are only human.  Your fellow players are only human.

That's all I'll say about that.  

---

All in all, the greatest offender of this list is RNG - it's what's draining the quality out of this game constantly, and the effort put forward to fixing it is simply misplaced.  You must address the issue directly and stop bandaid fixing.  RNG is actively causing burnout and bitterness towards this game - and negatively affecting its longetivity.  

Post your (reasonable) replies below, Tenno!

Edited June 19, 2014 by Gaminus

[reltats]

Agree with almost all of this.

 

Big thing though. Instead of making guaranteed drops of things you don't have for stalker, Harvey, and G3 I would propose a once a day mission that players can go into that has a 100% chance of being invaded (for each invader of course). Once a player has completed it they will not be able to keep drops from them if they join a friend to run this special mission again. The only way to get drops from them more then once a day would be if you got a random invasion after/before your run of the day

 

Edit: Also a small bit of RNG is fine, it can keep things fresh. But that is usually more in "loot porn" games. Which GrindFarm is currently not. Wouldn't mind some level of loot porn mechanic being added personally

Edited June 19, 2014 by reltats

[Tesseract_The_Pariah]

Agree with almost all of this.

 

Big thing though. Instead of making guaranteed drops of things you don't for stalker, Harvey, and G3 I would propose a once a day mission that players can go into that has a 100% chance of being invaded (for each invader of course). Once a player has completed it they will not be able to keep drops from them if they join a friend to run this special mission again. The only to get drops from them more then once a day would be if you got a random invasion after/before your run of the day

Doing that and keeping the random chance for them to pop up in missions is a very nice idea. 

[Frostosti]

no thanks

the game would become way too easy

if this happens I 'll play much less then I'm playing now

[Tesseract_The_Pariah]

no thanks

the game would become way too easy

if this happens I 'll play much less then I'm playing now

The game is easy - I forgot to mention that.  Either way, grinding=/= difficulty.  Random chance =/= difficulty. 

Perhaps give us more difficult missions as well as removing RNG?

[Psychotoxin]

They should bring back the raid missions.

And the Vaults in the Void should containt a bit more than 2 Trick mags, 1 Fire Repellent and 3 Alloy Plate drops. Maybe put a BP or a piece there. Keep it on a mild RNG, but make looking for the Vault a valuable endeavor.

[Tesseract_The_Pariah]

They should bring back the raid missions.

And the Vaults in the Void should containt a bit more than 2 Trick mags, 1 Fire Repellent and 3 Alloy Plate drops. Maybe put a BP or a piece there. Keep it on a mild RNG, but make looking for the Vault a valuable endeavor.

Perhaps put something.. special in there.

How about a tablet that you can decode, which unlocks some lore?

THAT would be a reward I'd FIGHT for.

[(PSN)Draconis1981]

really interesting slant but look at the money this game generates DE through the trade tab and you realise why they will keep the same system.

[Psychotoxin]

Perhaps put something.. special in there.

How about a tablet that you can decode, which unlocks some lore?

THAT would be a reward I'd FIGHT for.

 

Ohhh... now Lore is what i would fight for any day of the week. as long as the lore snipets wouldn't be subjected to the same RNG that keeps dropping Boar prime parts... 

[BizarreFetalChimpanzee]

no thanks

the game would become way too easy

if this happens I 'll play much less then I'm playing now

RNG =/= Difficulty. RNG = Pure luck.

 

There is no skill involved whatsoever in what RNG gives you. RNG's gonna RNG, regardless of whether you sat in one place for the entire mission or played your &#! off, keeping life support modules in check and shooting enemies in the process.

[ra9una]

While the points are at least worth looking at seriously, there are no easy fixes.

[Bayle_Fire]

Regarding the community part...We are humans... We don't just change...

[Ja_man]

Give the player parts that he doesnt have.  Set it so that if I have Hydroid chassis I'm guaranteed systems or helmets, and the same logic for other parts.  Make this work for Stalker, g3 Zanuka and perhaps corrupt mods too.  (Still make their chance of dropping an item at all low, so that they're still difficult to acquire)

 

so replace item type rng with item drop rate rng? sounds like another "bandaid" to me.

 

While the token system sounds good, im not sure how it would end up, since DE is the one who would set how many tokens you get for missions and how many you need for prime parts. if implemented, it could &!$$ off players just as much as the bad rng anyways. 

 

I think the most important fix is to change up the gameplay. the whole movement for "better ai" and more skill based playing has been going on for a while now. Make the endgame gameplay fair, challenging and fun to play so grinding won't be such an issue. I played hours of Mass effect multiplayer just cause it was fun. i didn't need to grind for new guns and characters, they were just added incentive to play the game. Gameplay will always be king. for me, at least.

 

I also think that the modding system needs a overhaul. weapon mods are completely unbalanced in favor of pure damage and elemental mods. lots of mods are completely useless compared to the "must have mods" that pretty much every player uses on every loadout.

 

edit: grammar

Edited June 19, 2014 by Ja_man

[Tesseract_The_Pariah]

so replace item type rng with item drop rate rng? sounds like another "bandaid" to me.

 

While the token system sounds good, im not sure how it would end up, since DE is the one who would set how many tokens you get for missions and how many you need for prime parts. if implemented, it could &!$$ off players just as much as the bad rng anyways. 

 

I think the most important fix is to change up the gameplay. the whole movement for "better ai" and more skill based playing has been going on for a while now. Make the endgame gameplay fair, challenging and fun to play so grinding won't be such an issue. I played hours of Mass effect multiplayer just cause it was fun. i didn't need to grind for new guns and characters, they were just added incentive to play the game. Gameplay will always be king. for me, at least.

 

I also think that the modding system needs a overhaul. weapon mods are completely unbalanced in favor of pure damage and elemental mods. lots of mods are completely useless compared to the "must have mods" that pretty much every player uses on every loadout.

 

edit: grammar

I meant that low drop chance exclusively for items that are dropped from the hunters(stalker, etc.)  Otherwise, guaranteed drops that you don't have from bosses that you defeat.

[YashiroSora]

For anyone saying it would make the game easy, please remember that, OP is addressing mainly Grinding and RNG. Warframe is a Game, and the real fun should be in the enemies/combat. There are threads that try address these, but the grind has of late been grossly overdone. Combine the fix of RNG/Grind with better enemies would make the game more interested, and not 'easy' if the enemies are a threat.

[Whendigo]

Well DE has work to do to reduce grinding and RNG but... They also myst fix energi (not just spam 4 Nova style) and take a look at mods... And when i say take a look i mean nerfing them like hell... Being able to have 660% shield and do many thousand of damage is not my definition of fun...

[Tesseract_The_Pariah]

For anyone saying it would make the game easy, please remember that, OP is addressing mainly Grinding and RNG. Warframe is a Game, and the real fun should be in the enemies/combat. There are threads that try address these, but the grind has of late been grossly overdone. Combine the fix of RNG/Grind with better enemies would make the game more interested, and not 'easy' if the enemies are a threat.

This game nonetheless lacks challenge, in most respects.  You can throw highly damaging enemies at us all you want but ultimately we'll out damage and out endure them. 

 

 

Well DE has work to do to reduce grinding and RNG but... They also myst fix energi (not just spam 4 Nova style) and take a look at mods... And when i say take a look i mean nerfing them like hell... Being able to have 660% shield and do many thousand of damage is not my definition of fun...

 

What you need to have is enemies with challenging mechanics.  Seeing the new enemies they're going to add, this will be rectified quickly.

Warframe isn't the type of game that's difficulty is not necessarilly dicated by numbers.  We can go higher than those numbers - and they lose meaning.  We need mechanical difficulty - Like how Void Vor is, or how Lech Kril is.  We need to be able to flex our tactical muscles and use our brains to dissect a situation instead of blindly firing a crit soma into a crowd and annihilating it.

 

Replying to older posts before I hit the hay and perhaps come up with some fresh ideas tomorrow:

 

 

Regarding the community part...We are humans... We don't just change...

It doesnt matter if you change, it matters if you at least try.

 

really interesting slant but look at the money this game generates DE through the trade tab and you realise why they will keep the same system.

They have tried to make Warframe for over a decade...  This game means more than money to them,

 

While the points are at least worth looking at seriously, there are no easy fixes.

Seems fairly easy compared to the insane amounts of tweaking they do to RNG that's ultimately fruitless. 

[Somedude1000]

While your ideas are interesting, there's no way to fix anything 'easily' for sure, because DE takes time to do things, and are a small thing. Implementing new things will have to wait until they've completed their current projects. The they need to complete preliminary testing as well before we get stuff. "easily" fixing things will also mean many bugs and unexpected occurences

 

In short, there's no easy way to fix things, but there definitely is one. Just be patient and well get some over time

 

Godspeed :D