Extreme Lack Of Difficulty

[Aerensiniac]

You can remain mobile the entire time, you just need to keep your shield count in mind and retreat to cover when its low/gone.

And this is what we call common sense.

[Ghobe]

I'm noticing a common tendency.

"This game is way too easy! By the way, I play a rhino."

"This game is way too easy! By the way, I play a frost."

Most people who indicate that the game is way too easy are people playing the tanking frames.

So no, the game doesn't need to be made harder. Tanking frames need to be made squishier so they're actually capable of dying.

That's all.

I play a Mag, I don't use a shotgun. Now what?

[Aerensiniac]

I'm noticing a common tendency.

"This game is way too easy! By the way, I play a rhino."

"This game is way too easy! By the way, I play a frost."

Most people who indicate that the game is way too easy are people playing the tanking frames.

So no, the game doesn't need to be made harder. Tanking frames need to be made squishier so they're actually capable of dying.

That's all.

You got it backwards.

Please refer to the thread: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/24608-playing-a-tank-frame-is-actually-more-penalizing-than-rewarding/

Heavy frames pose a worse performance than light ones.

I put my frost on the shelf and switched back to loki just because of the mentioned issues.

The game IS easier with lighter frames due to their speed and mobility.

If you do not want to get shot, then you will not be shot unlike in a frost/rhino.

[MJ12]

I did say in multiple topics that the ONLY and EXCLUSIVE way to die in Warframe currently is by standing into crossfires, but god damn i wouldnt have thought that there are some people out there who take this to the next level and claim that the game is supposed to be played by throwing your brains out the nearest window and not using any form of cover.

"Throwing your brains out the nearest window and not using any form of cover"? Unlike you, I seem to have enough intellect to manage to understand how the game is most fun and how it's supposed to be played, and that's when you're mixing it up in melee, dodging enemy attacks, using defensive powers or knockdowns to get a brief respite to regenerate shields (as opposed to hiding behind a box to do so)... and in that case a mistake can get you wrecked pretty fast in that case.

Now, I'll say that I do take cover some of the time but that's for a second or two, just to start regeneration. Which is different from 'hide behind a door and take potshots', which is the only way I can see people claiming this game is trivial and has no challenge.

Furthermore: Before you try and bring it to your defense that the developers discarded the interactive cover system: No. No bro. This does NOT mean that the game is "MEANT to be played" by running head first into a bullet rain and then argue on the forum that the game difficulty is fine because you can still die if you play it how its "meant to be played".

Nobody is saying you should run head first into a bullet rain. That's an absurd strawman. People are saying that being able to hide behind an object and be invulnerable to all harm is an exploit, not a feature, and thus claiming the game should be balanced so that enemies can do enough damage so that hiding behind an object is challenging is terrible.

Remind me why the devs have a melee system with tons of cool moves and want to work more on it if they intended that you should hide behind cover all the time instead of, you know, actually using f**king melee? Which does actually involve 'running head first into a bullet rain' most of the time. There is literally nothing to support your delusion that the devs wanted the game to be a cover shooter and that they should balance it for the guys who can't adapt to the fact that it isn't.

But please, show me where you got this delusion that playing the game as a cover shooter is how it's supposed to be played, or the tactics it's supposed to reward, instead of 'unintended behavior due to every other shooter on the market that needs to be quashed'. I can play cover shooters plenty well tyvm, the reason I play Warframe is because I don't need to play it like one, and in fact it's most fun when you don't play it like one.

Your example equals to deliberately hitting your fingers with a hammer and then claim that its an inhumane torture tool since it is "meant to hit you".

Actually. that'd be your example. You think the game isn't difficult because you're cheesing it via right-hand-advantage. Notice how in most cover shooters they have a cover system which pops you out of cover whenever you want to shoot, so you can be hit then? Notice how Warframe doesn't have that, allowing you to use right-hand-advantage all the time to cheese enemies? Yeah. It's pretty clear that 'hide behind boxes, shoot things' is not, and was never, the intended method of playing Warframe.

Edited April 8, 2013 by MJ12

[SlyBoots]

ghobe, read the whole statement, you couldn't misundertand me more. :/

mj12, the are ways to slow/incapacitate/stagger enemies for melee. you will use cover while mobile simply because of map layout. there's hit'n'run or hit'ultimate'run or whatever. i dunno, you're doing yourself no favour, also getting personal... :/

Edited April 8, 2013 by SlyBoots

[Anelyn]

Try other weapons / warframes. That's like saying Saryn before bug fix had the game too easy, there's no challenge etc.

[Mr.Mango]

I have a great idea that would everybody stop running around in the forums about how easy the game is.

Just bring in difficulty settings! Everybody that's right now enjoying playing on that difficulty can stay at "Normal".

But whoever thinks this game is too easy and wants more difficulty, here have "Tenno Slaughter" Mode. Brings back Nervos, Grineer throw instant kill Grenades again and everything is making much more damage. (For example, you touch a Toxic Ancient, half your HP is instantly gone!)

So shouldn't be too easy anymore then...

[Ghobe]

What the hell is "right hand advantage"? Is that the ability to use your mouse?

Here I'd like to throw some numbers at you...

Energy Skills make up 6.1% of my kills.

Rifle: 50.3% of my kills

Pistol: 9.6% of my kills

Melee: 33.8% of my kills

We're not hiding at a door taking pot shots. We're in there mixing it up, it's not difficult. I would welcome the hell out of the thought about enemies grenade spamming my cover. In fact, I'm pretty sure they're supposed to do that now, they just don't.

EDIT: btw, you guys know there's a block button right? >.>

EDIT2:

ghobe, read the whole statement, you couldn't misundertand me more. :/

You edited in the rest after I added my post.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Ghobe

[Anelyn]

They do grenade your cover. Worst thing you can do when in a fight, is sit in one place all the time :(

[MJ12]

What the hell is "right hand advantage"? Is that the ability to use your mouse?

http://forums.epicga...-hand-advantage

Basically, characters in third person shooters don't need to see the enemy to shoot them. The player has a much wider field of view, so right hand advantage is using 'soft cover' by hiding behind a wall such that only your gun pokes out, making you basically invulnerable while you take potshots. It's a pretty basic thing.

Here I'd like to throw some numbers at you...

Energy Skills make up 6.1% of my kills.

Rifle: 50.3% of my kills

Pistol: 9.6% of my kills

Melee: 33.8% of my kills

We're not hiding at a door taking pot shots. We're in there mixing it up, it's not difficult. I would welcome the hell out of the thought about enemies grenade spamming my cover. In fact, I'm pretty sure they're supposed to do that now, they just don't.

If you're 'in there mixing it up' and you're still claiming the game is super easy you're either lying, playing on an easy planet, playing exclusively 4p coop (which does need a balance pass, yes), using a warframe with a persistent invulnerability ability, or way too good to be a decent balance point. Which one is it?

Edited April 8, 2013 by MJ12

[Aerensiniac]

"Throwing your brains out the nearest window and not using any form of cover"? Unlike you, I seem to have enough intellect to manage to understand how the game is most fun, and that's when you're mixing it up in melee, dodging enemy attacks, using defensive powers or knockdowns to get a brief respite to regenerate shields (as opposed to hiding behind a box to do so)... and in that case a mistake can get you wrecked pretty fast in that case.

You make the wrong assumption mate. I use a Rush mod and i have no problem whatsoever melding mobility and your description of melee with using covers.

All it takes is to pick the enemy that is out of LoS towards the rest of the enemies and bang: you are 1 on 1 with a mob and are still behind cover.

You will find me to be top in melee kills in all and any matches i join, mainly because loki has no offensive abilities either, so allow me to refuse the idea that im sitting behind covers taking pot shots.

Now, I'll say that I do take cover some of the time but that's for a second or two, just to start regeneration. Which is different from 'hide behind a door and take potshots', which is the only way I can see people claiming this game is trivial and has no challenge.

Wrong mate. What you are saying is not a game feature.

You are deliberately making things hard upon yourself, and then claim that the game difficulty is hard enough.

How does that make any form or sort of sense to you?

Along these very same lines, i could unequip all mods i have and the demand further nerfing on enemies because they are hard.

What you are suggesting is not even remotely logical. Its the purest definition of a fallacy.

Nobody is saying you should run head first into a bullet rain. That's an absurd strawman. People are saying that being able to hide behind an object and be invulnerable to all harm is an exploit, not a feature, and thus claiming the game should be balanced so that enemies can do enough damage so that hiding behind an object is challenging is terrible.

To say that taking cover is an exploit is.... i dont know. Ridiculous at best?

From Castle of Wolfenstein through rise of the triads, duke nukem 3d and the rest of the FPS/TPS shooters in existence: People always had the common sense not to stand around in front of enemies and use covers.

I can only repeat myself: you are deliberately making things hard upon yourself and then claim that the game difficulty is hard enough.

Remind me why the devs have a melee system with tons of cool moves and want to work more on it if they intended that you should hide behind cover all the time instead of, you know, actually using f**king melee? Which does actually involve 'running head first into a bullet rain' most of the time. There is literally nothing to support your delusion that the devs wanted the game to be a cover shooter and that they should balance it for the guys who can't adapt to the fact that it isn't.

Huge double standard mate. Remind me why the devs have COVERS in the game if they intended you to run into stuff head on without any form of escape or mitigation except your frame skills and swordsmanship.

Sorry mate, but having "cool moves" does not mean that you are supposed to play the drunk karate master, rushing into everything.

Actually. that'd be your example. You think the game isn't difficult because you're cheesing it via right-hand-advantage. Notice how in most cover shooters they have a cover system which pops you out of cover whenever you want to shoot, so you can be hit then? Notice how Warframe doesn't have that, allowing you to use right-hand-advantage all the time to cheese enemies? Yeah. It's pretty clear that 'hide behind boxes, shoot things' is not, and was never, the intended method of playing Warframe.

Completely wrong. What do you even mean by the idea that you cant get shot in waframe while shooting from cover?

Exactly because there is no cover system, you have to come out of cover to be able to shoot.

Or are you playing from a hacked client that allows you to shoot through objects, killing stuff through the cover you are sitting behind?

[MJ12]

-snip admission he's a Loki player

So you're playing a Warframe with a skill that allows persistent invulnerability and double melee damage in a four-player game (and I am well aware that 4p co-op needs a balance pass because the enemy spawn numbers and AI target priority are broke) and then wondering why the game's easy? Well duh, being able to turn yourself invulnerable for 20 seconds six times in a row tends to do that.

That doesn't make the game 'too easy'. That makes a specific gamemode problematic.

Completely wrong. What do you even mean by the idea that you cant get shot in waframe while shooting from cover?

Exactly because there is no cover system, you have to come out of cover to be able to shoot.

Or are you playing from a hacked client that allows you to shoot through objects, killing stuff through the cover you are sitting behind?

Right hand advantage exists in this game. You can peek your gun out from cover and get persistent invulnerability. Try it and see, because bullets don't come out of the center of the screen (this is, FYI, why shooting guys at point-blank gets you a ton of missed shots).

[Dancingfirefly]

I agree that there should be a difficulty slider, so the hardcore people who can flawlessly play this game can have their cookie too.

[Aerensiniac]

So you're playing a Warframe with a skill that allows persistent invulnerability and double melee damage in a four-player game (and I am well aware that 4p co-op needs a balance pass because the enemy spawn numbers and AI target priority are broke) and then wondering why the game's easy? Well duh, being able to turn yourself invulnerable for 20 seconds six times in a row tends to do that.

That doesn't make the game 'too easy'. That makes a specific gamemode problematic.

Excuses upon excuses.

I did the same with my frost and can do it with any other frame successfully, in contradiction to you who claims that the game is "meant to be played" by not using covers, and figures that difficulty is still hard because he deliberately gets himself shot.

Im also not using invisibility to melee cause im not wasting my energy reserves on something i can just as easily have with a well modded gram.

Right hand advantage exists in this game. You can peek your gun out from cover and get persistent invulnerability. Try it and see, because bullets don't come out of the center of the screen (this is, FYI, why shooting guys at point-blank gets you a ton of missed shots).

So who is the cover pot shooter then?

I didnt know about this, nor care about it cause i do not require cover hugging.

Summarized: Your main argument is that the game doesnt need difficulty increase, because you refuse to use covers and take more damage/deaths as a result.

[Ghobe]

Basically, characters in third person shooters don't need to see the enemy to shoot them. The player has a much wider field of view, so right hand advantage is using 'soft cover' by hiding behind a wall such that only your gun pokes out, making you basically invulnerable while you take potshots. It's a pretty basic thing.

Alright, yea, I've noticed that. Don't resort to it though. I suppose they either need to fix it in general or have AI always try to approach from the left.

If you're 'in there mixing it up' and you're still claiming the game is super easy you're either lying, playing on an easy planet, playing exclusively 4p coop (which does need a balance pass, yes), using a warframe with a persistent invulnerability ability, or way too good to be a decent balance point. Which one is it?

I just got done doing a mission on Pluto Solo using Mag, no supercharge on anything, nothing is higher than rank 22, and the only thing that's not default equipment is my melee(Dual Heat Swords).

Warframe has Level 0 Crush, Level 1 Rush, Level 3 Redirection, Level 2 Vitality and 2 empty mod capacity.

Rifle has Serration Level 1, Fast Hands level 2, Ammo Drum level 1, Piercing Hit level 4. 2 free capacity.

Pistol has Trick Mag level 3, Hornet Strike level 1, Pistol gambit level 1. 1 Free capacity.

Melee has Pressure Point level 3, Staggering Force level 1. 5 Free capacity.

Not sure what you mean by "way too good to be a decent balance point". Unless you're referring to my skill level...let me clarify...I don't want the entirety of the game to be made harder on the whole. I want a planet or 3 that is designated "hard content".

[Kanaris]

DE themselves have said that the game is not meant to be a cover shooter. You're supposed to be a fast and furious space ninja.

[Ghobe]

DE themselves have said that the game is not meant to be a cover shooter. You're supposed to be a fast and furious space ninja.

There's a difference between a cover shooter and using cover for a breather.

[MJ12]

Excuses upon excuses.

I did the same with my frost and can do it with any other frame successfully, in contradiction to you who claims that the game is "meant to be played" by not using covers, and figures that difficulty is still hard because he deliberately gets himself shot.

Im also not using invisibility to melee cause im not wasting my energy reserves on something i can just as easily have with a well modded gram.

"I did the same with my frost" by cheesing Infested (which can be trivialized by a single f**king box) is not an explanation for how the game is so easy. All you're doing is making up bulls**t about how the game is so easy which does not even make any sense to someone who's played the game. How exactly are you surviving with Loki against hitscan enemies (Grineer are simultaneously hitscan and have zero reaction time, you can test their instantaneous reactions via the fact that they can instantly hit you out of teleport/bladestorm/etc)? Or is my game magically bugged and Grineer aren't actually hitscan? Because they pretty clearly are.

Also, not using it to melee says very little, since it's also useful for the invulnerability aspect.

So who is the cover pot shooter then?

I didnt know about this, nor care about it cause i do not require cover hugging.

So what, exactly, are you doing that makes you so unstoppable?

Assuming you aren't making s**t up, you're clearly way the hell better at this game than most people and thus you're never going to be satisfied. It's the equivalent of a guy who can beat Dante Must Die in DMC3 without any upgrades or taking a single hit demanding the game be made harder. Sure, you can but if the devs have any sense they aren't going to listen to you.

Summarized: Your main argument is that the game doesnt need difficulty increase, because you refuse to use covers and take more damage/deaths as a result.

So I play the game correctly (the enemies which are intended to make cover shooting suboptimal are either terribly balanced in general [Rollers] and actually encourage the opposite or largely ineffectual [Leapers]) and find that the game's difficulty is okay, but it needs bugfixes so that you can't exploit the game via cover-cheesing/etc... and you say this is a bad thing? Funny.

Alright, yea, I've noticed that. Don't resort to it though. I suppose they either need to fix it in general or have AI always try to approach from the left.

I just got done doing a mission on Pluto Solo using Mag, no supercharge on anything, nothing is higher than rank 22, and the only thing that's not default equipment is my melee(Dual Heat Swords).

Warframe has Level 0 Crush, Level 1 Rush, Level 3 Redirection, Level 2 Vitality and 2 empty mod capacity.

Rifle has Serration Level 1, Fast Hands level 2, Ammo Drum level 1, Piercing Hit level 4. 2 free capacity.

Pistol has Trick Mag level 3, Hornet Strike level 1, Pistol gambit level 1. 1 Free capacity.

Melee has Pressure Point level 3, Staggering Force level 1. 5 Free capacity.

Not sure what you mean by "way too good to be a decent balance point". Unless you're referring to my skill level...let me clarify...I don't want the entirety of the game to be made harder on the whole. I want a planet or 3 that is designated "hard content".

Player skill, that's what I mean. Anyways, as long as there's no real content lock I don't care about hard planets. You can have $&*^punchia, the planet of utter masochism where everything downs you in one hit as long as I don't have to go there to get anything that isn't purely cosmetic. Hell, a bunch of Lunatic Mode planets where bosses are guaranteed to drop BPs (which you can get outside of Lunatic Mode) 100% of the time and mods drop 2-3x as often would be great.

[Kanaris]

There's a difference between a cover shooter and using cover for a breather.

I don't argue against that. But it makes skills such as Radial Blind and Decoy redundant.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Kanaris

[Aerensiniac]

DE themselves have said that the game is not meant to be a cover shooter. You're supposed to be a fast and furious space ninja.

Okay, lets stop here before this argument further escalates.

Do you know what a cover shooter is mate?

Gears of war is a cover shooter.

It allows interaction with anything that can be used as cover and has a great amount of moves associated with it.

With the touch of a single button, your character "sticks" to the surface of any object that can be used as cover, and blocks incoming fire the best possible way.

Your idea of "if there is something on the map you can hide behind then its a cover shooter" has nothing to do with it.

Do you think that castle of wolfenstein was a "cover shooter" just because you could hide behind corners?

Do you think that Duke Nukem was a "cover shooter" just because you could hide behind a few objects?

Do you think that Halo is a "cover shooter" just because you can actually stand behind a wide variety of objects?

Sorry to break it to you mate, but the term "cover" is the same age as "shooter".

Just because you can actually use objects on the map as a cover, it wont turn the entire game into a cover shooter.

Unless ofc you wish to tell me that every FPS and TPS ever made is a "cover shooter".

[Ghobe]

People still seem to be thinking that bigger numbers equates to harder gameplay...that's not it at all. Need more mechanics. The enemy needs to be able to apply pressure and keep it applied. Right now the "hardest" parts of the game are certain mission starts and just after using an elevator because unless you run through them, you don't have much room to work with. Why don't I get flushed out? Why aren't grenades used more often? Why don't the support type enemies hide themselves better? Why don't I get flanked? Why are the consoles never covered after they lock the place down? Why is there only 1 level of security to every hack? Why aren't there a variety of turrets? Why are turrets automatically deactivated when a camera is taken out on a fully alerted ship? Why do bosses not keep using their mechanics(I'm looking at you hek)? Why is there only 1 mechanic heavy boss in the game(Jackal)? Why aren't there reasons to use more advanced maneuvers(backflipping off walls, running alongside walls, using ziplines, etc)? Why isn't the mining machinery more heavily guarded on a base that is all about the mining? Why is hacking security to classified information as simple as overriding a security lockdown? There's just so many things that could be expanded upon. For the love of god DE hire me, I'll do it myself.

I don't argue against that. But it makes skills such as Radial Blind and Decoy redundant.

Not every warframe has that ability. If you're using a warframe that does, then it's up to you whether you spend energy or seek physical cover.

[mhd995]

I'm actually sort of agreeing with MJ12 on the fact that you're "supposed" to play it with style, grace and efficiency. However, I don't think many people actually treat it like a cover shooter unless they're heavily outnumbered or outclassed.

I have to say, unless I actively pick the more difficult planets as I unlock the map, the difficulty is not high at all to the point where I can easily solo through most of them without even so much as trying. Not because I'm such a great player, but they simply don't do enough damage to be a real threat. But just now I was playing on a difficulty 5 alert with level ~20 Grineer solo and got my butt handed to me simply because I wasn't used to this kind of opposition. Usually I go for cool melee kills and fancy jumps and whatnot but their firerate, numbers and damage output forced me to return to cover much more often that I'd like. I managed to finish the mission with a single death (right at the end even), but I believe that was exactly what the difficulty curve should be like in general. With four players (assuming they have similar gear and experience) it would've undoubtedly been easier, but still a lot more challenging than the planets I usually visit.

[Aerensiniac]

"I did the same with my frost" by cheesing Infested (which can be trivialized by a single f**king box) is not an explanation for how the game is so easy. All you're doing is making up bulls**t about how the game is so easy which does not even make any sense to someone who's played the game. How exactly are you surviving with Loki against hitscan enemies (Grineer are simultaneously hitscan and have zero reaction time, you can test their instantaneous reactions via the fact that they can instantly hit you out of teleport/bladestorm/etc)? Or is my game magically bugged and Grineer aren't actually hitscan? Because they pretty clearly are.

Also, not using it to melee says very little, since it's also useful for the invulnerability aspect.

So what, exactly, are you doing that makes you so unstoppable?

Assuming you aren't making s**t up, you're clearly way the hell better at this game than most people and thus you're never going to be satisfied. It's the equivalent of a guy who can beat Dante Must Die in DMC3 without any upgrades or taking a single hit demanding the game be made harder. Sure, you can but if the devs have any sense they aren't going to listen to you.

I thought that you are into melee.

Is that now suddenly not the case?

Cause if you are indeed a melee player then the first things that you get aware of is:

a.) Dodge gives you an invulnerability window

b.) Latency+Bullet travel time will effectively render you invulnerable on long ranges if your speed is high enough, due to the simple fact that the AI is not calculating your trajectory and makes no attempts at lead-shotting you.

Combining these 2 very simple facts with intelligent enemy selection (picking the enemy that is behind cover and out of LoS towards other enemies) allow you to massacre down near anything, and you dont even need to beat DMC in Dante must die mode.

The AI is shooting at your fixed position. There is no end as to how much this fact can be abused.

So I play the game correctly (the enemies which are intended to make cover shooting suboptimal are either terribly balanced in general [Rollers] and actually encourage the opposite or largely ineffectual [Leapers]) and find that the game's difficulty is okay, but it needs bugfixes so that you can't exploit the game via cover-cheesing/etc... and you say this is a bad thing? Funny.

It is funny.

Take a gram, mod it out on charge time and damage and the result is a weapon that hits in a more or less 220° arc for 500 damage, crits to 750 (without crit mod) and 1500 on infested. Strap on armor piercing and crit chance for the lulz, proceed with elementals and watch the fun escalate as Hyena cant even stand up from being knocked down due to a broken leg on every each attempt.

It doesnt even take oc for most melee weapons to tear the place apart. All it takes is 2 well choosen and fully upgraded mods. Fast and heavy alike.

You talk about challenge, but most players can tear the place apart on a whim's note.

Gaming is about exploiting mate.

Its about finding the best complementary skills, the best complementary weapons, the best combos, the softest spots, the outstanding strategies, the little bit of extra that can give you the edge over your enemies.

As for the last part of your post:

I agree with you.

Have the game any way you like it as long as i dont have to go with you to the baby tenno nursery where people get their shots from not using cover, mods, or even weapons, since they are considered "exploits" in their world.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Aerensiniac

[MJ12]

I thought that you are into melee.

Is that now suddenly not the case?

Cause if you are indeed a melee player then the first things that you get aware of is:

a.) Dodge gives you an invulnerability window

b.) Latency+Bullet travel time will effectively render you invulnerable on long ranges if your speed is high enough, due to the simple fact that the AI is not calculating your trajectory and makes no attempts at lead-shotting you.

A is blatantly wrong, you can still take damage while dodging, there are no 'invulnerability frames'. In fact, actual invulnerability frames are some of the most-demanded things for dodgerolls (the other thing being 'faster execution') B is also blatantly wrong, because all Grineer as well as Railgun Moas and Corpus bosses have hitscan weapons with instantaneous travel time. Only Corpus projectiles can be 'dodged' as such, which means Corpus are easy for a skilled player who shoots from the hip...

...except they're also hard for anyone else.

Combining these 2 very simple facts with intelligent enemy selection (picking the enemy that is behind cover and out of LoS towards other enemies) allow you to massacre down near anything, and you dont even need to beat DMC in Dante must die mode.

The AI is shooting at your fixed position. There is no end as to how much this fact can be abused.

Okay, assume you're right. So you can dodge most fire and soak up hits from things which aren't. This makes the game bad how?

It is funny.

Take a gram, mod it out on charge time and damage and the result is a weapon that hits in a more or less 220° arc for 500 damage, crits to 750 (without crit mod) and 1500 on infested. Strap on armor piercing and crit chance for the lulz, proceed with elementals and watch the fun escalate as Hyena cant even stand up from being knocked down due to a broken leg on every each attempt.

It doesnt even take oc for most melee weapons to tear the place apart. All it takes is 2 well choosen and fully upgraded mods. Fast and heavy alike.

So melee is viable compared to guns. This is a bad thing how?

You talk about challenge, but most players can tear the place apart on a whim's note.

Yes, this mythical "most players" species which I never see, which clearly isn't as 'most' as you think it is, who are apparently represented by four or five of the same condescending guys whenever the topic comes up on the forums, let alone in the actual game.

Gaming is about exploiting mate.

Its about finding the best complementary skills, the best complementary weapons, the best combos, the softest spots, the outstanding strategies, the little bit of extra that can give you the edge over your enemies.

No, gaming is about having fun. Sometimes exploiting too much kind of ruins that. And that's something plenty of people need to learn. Maybe you're a powergamer who has fun exploiting for exploiting's sake, but if you're finding that boring because you made the game too easy... it's your own damn fault.

As for the last part of your post:

I agree with you.

Have the game any way you like it as long as i dont have to go with you to the baby tenno nursery where people get their shots from not using cover, mods, or even weapons, since they are considered "exploits" in their world.

Yeah, and this is exactly why nobody should listen to you. Because people who don't think the game is ridiculously super-easy and you can solo pluto with an unranked Frame and weapon while having your eyes closed and being beaten up by five burly guys are people who play in the "baby tenno nursery". This kind of proves my point where you don't want difficulty because it's fun, you want difficulty to smug it up about how good you are. Find some other way to provide yourself self-aggrandizement and leave everyone else alone, okay?

Edited April 8, 2013 by MJ12

[letir]

Don't forget about skills! They give you invulnerability window too, and they mostly imbalanced like legal cheat.

Edited April 8, 2013 by letir