Greenfish106 Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 (edited) After player a bunch of defense farming mods I've found that the actual incentive to play defense; the, "reward" is completely worthless. Out of all the times I've played defense I've only ever gotten one worthwhile mod. Which was hellfire for the rifle. Other than that it's pointless little rewards like ciphers and mods that you already have 20 of. There needs to be a significant buff to the reward so it doesn't feel entirely pointless to extract. What I mean is I just play a defense mission vs infested. At wave 5 we got cipher and at 10 we got the first level of pressure point (7% increase OP) Instead of stopping since we knew we would lose (after wave 10 the game starts to send 6+ ancients with high damage and resistance at a time) we kept going because we might have gotten a mod that was actually WORTH GETTING. What I'm trying to say is that players should have to think about if they want to extract for the reward, or keep going and maybe find more mods. Right now extracting from defense gives you a dismal amount of credits and a crappy mod. -Edit: Defense uses a program that causes the enemies to progressively have a higher damage resistance and damage. This program causes the waves to get harder as you go. I think that mods drops should be much more prevalent the higher you go. As well as making drops be better. After playing kilakin to round 15, I got a level 0 hellfire. The thing is the enemies started to get VERY strong. They could take a lot of damage and dish out quite a bit. I had 315 shield and 330 health. But if I tried to melee ONE basic MOA I would have no shield left and a little health missing. Should I not get better things when the enemies get better? I'm just really sick of all the crappy reload and sentinel mods. Before the drop update mods that dropped were actually useful. One of the billion of shotgun multishot mods could be sold for 1k each or used in fusion. Now you're getting a bunch of sentinel mods that are worth 200 and are TERRIBLE for fusion. MaximumSquid made this post that pretty much sums up defense rewards right now. "Wave 5 reward Quick Draw Wave 10 reward another Quick Draw Wave 15 reward. . . guess what kids? another Quick Draw!!" Edited April 8, 2013 by Greenfish106 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklesnChaos Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Ya I'll +1 this I like the IDEA of this mission type, but the reward system is so poor currently that honestly it's almost never worth going past 5 and at the very most 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrtuOcelot Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 You sometimes get offered really good stuff, I have a Banshee BP from the Kiliken Defense mission. It's actually pretty random, with the obvious rares having smaller chances to pop up. This was on the 10th or 15th wave, so you can hit wave 5 and be offered a BP just like reaching wave 40 and only being offered "No Return" or something similar to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenfish106 Posted April 8, 2013 Author Share Posted April 8, 2013 Ya I'll +1 this I like the IDEA of this mission type, but the reward system is so poor currently that honestly it's almost never worth going past 5 and at the very most 10. The point was that there's no reason to stop. Not that you should stop early. There's literally no benefit to stopping because you will almost never get something worthwhile from stopping. Banshee BP's are one of the sole exceptions. And they're so rare that it's not even worth considering. Endless defense shouldn't be, "Go until I lose" it should be, "I know I'm going to lose in the next 5, so I should back out with my mediocre-good reward." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenfish106 Posted April 8, 2013 Author Share Posted April 8, 2013 You sometimes get offered really good stuff, I have a Banshee BP from the Kiliken Defense mission. It's actually pretty random, with the obvious rares having smaller chances to pop up. This was on the 10th or 15th wave, so you can hit wave 5 and be offered a BP just like reaching wave 40 and only being offered "No Return" or something similar to that. This is my point, but that sometimes is EXTREMELY rare. Obviously if I was going to get Banshee BP's I'd stop. But there's such a small chance of this it's almost pointless to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7rance Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 The Endless Defense Missions really need better rewards the higher the Waves go. Not only from the Reward after every 5 Waves but as drops aswell. I really like playing Endless Defense but rarely do i find a grouo that wants to stay for the higher Waves and i can't really blame them. Besides the higher Xp and the Challenge there is not really a benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorinar Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 I agree, most times the sucky reward means it's better to not extract since you're likely to get a better mod just by moving on and killing something. I'd love to see better rewards, like maybe already-upgraded mods. A level 1 hellfire instead of a level 0, etc. Or maybe a nice credit purse in addition to the mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smolder Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Maybe it's just me, but I'd like a Rare Fusion Core if it isn't already in there. Also, it prolly isn't a bug, but does anyone else not get credits if you solo a defense mission? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenfish106 Posted April 8, 2013 Author Share Posted April 8, 2013 Maybe it's just me, but I'd like a Rare Fusion Core if it isn't already in there. Also, it prolly isn't a bug, but does anyone else not get credits if you solo a defense mission? Ya, getting 1, or even maybe 2 rare fusion cores if you got really high would be nice (waves 25+ for 2). Also I'm pretty sure Defense has no credit reward because that crappy mod is your reward. So instead of getting a nice 1-2k you're getting a 200-500 card that is useless for almost anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenfish106 Posted April 8, 2013 Author Share Posted April 8, 2013 -Bump for more opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximumSquid Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 I'd like to see a major rework done to defense missions After 5 waves are up it should show 3 rewards You can either take all the rewards and leave or you can pick one and continue fighting This way people won't bail if "zOMG BAnSHee Gear" shows up on wave 10 when you got a capable group of going to 20 or more It will also give players a real chance to scoop up mods they are missing Documenting what missions offer what rewards at what wave would be easy with this setup One of the three rewards could be set static based on what wave has been completed for the mission One could also be a random warframe ability One could be like it currently is or even be a [?] box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenfish106 Posted April 8, 2013 Author Share Posted April 8, 2013 I'd like to see a major rework done to defense missions After 5 waves are up it should show 3 rewards You can either take all the rewards and leave or you can pick one and continue fighting This way people won't bail if "zOMG BAnSHee Gear" shows up on wave 10 when you got a capable group of going to 20 or more It will also give players a real chance to scoop up mods they are missing Documenting what missions offer what rewards at what wave would be easy with this setup One of the three rewards could be set static based on what wave has been completed for the mission One could also be a random warframe ability One could be like it currently is or even be a [?] box I actually really like that idea. One would be static and sort of crappy, but safe. The second would be a fusion core of some variety, and the third could be a random box. The static one would get better as the wave progresses instead of just changing like it does now. So you might get Hell Fire 2 as a wave 15 award. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximumSquid Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 (edited) The current system is just awful. . . Wave 5 reward Quick Draw Wave 10 reward another Quick Draw Wave 15 reward. . . guess what kids? another Quick Draw!! Die before wave 20 and feel massively cheated Fusion Cores are really expensive to use. . . I don't mind selling high quality ones, but if you want to level ups something it's better to splice on same polarity or just a straight up copy of the mod - Edited April 8, 2013 by MaximumSquid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrblurr Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 The point was that there's no reason to stop. Not that you should stop early. There's literally no benefit to stopping because you will almost never get something worthwhile from stopping. Banshee BP's are one of the sole exceptions. And they're so rare that it's not even worth considering. Endless defense shouldn't be, "Go until I lose" it should be, "I know I'm going to lose in the next 5, so I should back out with my mediocre-good reward." 100% agree. This is how I assumed it was. at wave 10 on Kiliken for me and my wife, we always weigh the rewards and decide if we think we can make it to 15 this time (We never have because of several reasons) and a couple times we've gotten uncommons and 1 time on another defense (earth?) we got a Warframe BP (I forgot which one) on level 5. lol I have gotten very many good mods for rifles yet, and it kinda peeves me because they are needed SO badly to advance 20+ in defense missions. So I'm stuck with mag capacity/ammo drum/armor pen/ and reload rate. All can me great to use, but most people ar egoing to need Damage and elemental damage. I realize these are probably rare, but I haven't gotten 1 yet...surely soon... I would recommend making the lvl 5 card: 60% chance of a common, 30% chance of uncommon, 5% chance of rare, and 5% chance of BP. Level 10: 30% chance of a common, 55% chance of uncommon, 10% chance of rare, and 5% chance of BP. Level 15: 20% chance of a common, 60% chance of uncommon, 15% chance of rare, and 5% chance of BP. Level 15: 7% chance of a common, 65% chance of uncommon, 20% chance of rare, and 8% chance of BP. And so on until at some point you are ONLY getting rares and BPs (probably after 35-40). I think level 15 should give you a decent chance at a rare though, unless they play on making weapons (rifles) better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenfish106 Posted April 9, 2013 Author Share Posted April 9, 2013 -Bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaligoIllioneus Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 The reward needs to scale to difficulty. Wave 25 rewards should be something awesome and valuable, like Banshee Blueprints and the like. Perhaps a chance for rare weapons or skins, too.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaylees Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Wave 5 = Hellfire Wave 10 = Hellfire Wave 15 = Heated Charge Wave 20 = Hellfire Wave 25 = Hellfire Or Wave 5 = Hellfire Wave 10 = Streamline Wave 15 = Hellfire Wave 20 = Hellfire Wave 25 = Hellfire Or Wave 5 = Hellfire Wave 10 = Hellfire Wave 15 = Hellfire Wave 20 = Hellfire Wave 25 = Hellfire ....Literally. And, of course, that's while getting like 10/12 mods for warframes you don't use, and which give you the mods they need when you build them anyway. I love this game, don't get me wrong. I love Defense missions, too. Well, I did before the last patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyics Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 yeah, I've the same issue but it's with heated charge. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulie Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Starting to use Hellfires as bookmarks, doorstops, sticking them under my wobbly desk, etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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