Yes, Its About Ember, Again

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

Now that i typed all of this i kind of found a very good solution: make enemies affected by accelerant slower and less accurate if gun wielders, since the bath of combustible may cause their weapons to malfunction. Sounds great to me, what about you ppl?

[Azawarau]

"what place does a game have for a character thats slow AND squishy?

especially a game that wants you to survive while having 20 guns constantly firing at you?"

Perfectly put sir, you get it, i ALWAYS say this in these ember threads and apparently not many ppl seem to realize that, guess said ppl's experience with said warframe comes outta their a**es.

Anyways, my current solution to this is building my ember all around accelerant, seeing as that's the only way to stop those 20 guns from mowing you down while you hopelessly shot your ignis and fireballs all over the place.

No WoF on this build, like you wisely noticed there is no point in doing so, you are just better off using accelerant again and shooting with fire, preferrably the ignis, since 2s of stun barely gives you time to aim.

Unfortunately ember suffers more than any other warframe from the syndrome of not enough mod slots, reason why i cant equip rush either.

See, nova and ember are based on the same concept, period, glass cannons, there is no way to deny that, but comparing them we notice that nova can make the enemies 75% slower and she can run faster than any warframe barring loki, that's her defense; as for ember, she is slow as eff and has no way to defend herself except spamming accelerant, DE should really stop and think about ember's role in this game,all of the enemies have been vastly improved difficulty wise, while some older frames were left to dust and not adapted to such changes, see that i use the word "adapted", not buffed.

As tc again wisely pointed, ember is barely 'a nightmare for unarmored enemies' anymore, let alone the fact that anything can strip her out of energy now...She's far from my favorite warframe but she is the one that needs a rework the most, then oberon, then nekros, then excal, then mag (sort of).

You arent limited to the ignis

 

Grab a gun add corrosive or magnetic and fire to it and get some kills with that Accelerant

 

Also WoF is great for comboing with it

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

You arent limited to the ignis

 

Grab a gun add corrosive or magnetic and fire to it and get some kills with that Accelerant

 

Also WoF is great for comboing with it

True, but the insane bonus given by a max power strength accel is just too good to pass on, if i intend on going for high waves of T4S or D i will take a corrosive+fire amprex (cant wait for breeding grounds to hit us) and bring mayhem. I kinda found the way i feel comfortable playing her, and with said build a WoF would cost way too much and last not long enough. I basically use accel with efficency and power strength maxed, a stretch, a continuity and the rest is pure utility like nat talent for light speed stun, rush recently replaced flow, phoenix helm along with her natural high pool seem enough to me, and fireball cause it's such a great 1, even more when maxed in this build.

Still she lacks in the defense department, see, i wouldn't even call the stum which is default in pretty much every non damage skill to be a proper defense...she needs something, anything in this regard.

[Azawarau]

True, but the insane bonus given by a max power strength accel is just too good to pass on, if i intend on going for high waves of T4S or D i will take a corrosive+fire amprex (cant wait for breeding grounds to hit us) and bring mayhem. I kinda found the way i feel comfortable playing her, and with said build a WoF would cost way too much and last not long enough. I basically use accel with efficency and power strength maxed, a stretch, a continuity and the rest is pure utility like nat talent for light speed stun, rush recently replaced flow, phoenix helm along with her natural high pool seem enough to me, and fireball cause it's such a great 1, even more when maxed in this build.

Still she lacks in the defense department, see, i wouldn't even call the stum which is default in pretty much every non damage skill to be a proper defense...she needs something, anything in this regard.

Its costly but it cleans up very nicely

 

I accidentally had a 4 second WoF and it saved me once against lvl 30ish corpus so i started using it as a panic button

 

Not useful at 4 seconds but enough to get by for that mission

[SandwitchPrime]

Ever try Accelerant and WoF maxed?

 

Youll destroy bosses

 

Or Boar prime and Accelerant

 

Or just spam Accelerant

 

Its amazing

 

I posted that in question form to be fair

 

Was a bit too lazy to go to the wiki and reread so i went off memory

 

It also helps embers case quite heavily

 

same as above

once agin, she can do stuff, but other frames just does it way better and for less, valkyr can destroy bosses in matter of seconds,a valkyr with ichor can finish most bosses before you can even finish your WoF animation. plus we all know that bosses aint even a threat in this game, you are more likely to be killed by a heavygunner than lech krill. good against bosses isnt a pro for any warframe, they all are.....as long as you have a massive dmg weapon

and plz, better than other rhinos....... ok let;s get this straight, i dont wanna repeat, this is not a moba[tho it seems like they are trying to make it one, in that case DE has failed......]!and what the fk do you need skills in this game for....especially with rhino, its just time and luck, no skills required as long as you are capable of running and clicking, and have the patience of going through the same map for 300 times for a single mod[tranquil cleave= =].

srsly id say the only thing that matters on a warframe is sustainability, thats why i love valkyr and trinity, damage is your weapon's job, your warframe in that case is only a support, i dont mind being a floating magical 10000dmg per bullet soma as long as i can stay alive.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Tol853147920

[Azawarau]

once agin, she can do stuff, but other frames just does it way better and for less, valkyr can destroy bosses in matter of seconds,a valkyr with ichor can finish most bosses before you can even finish your WoF animation. plus we all know that bosses aint even a threat in this game, you are more likely to be killed by a heavygunner than lech krill. good against bosses isnt a pro for any warframe, they all are.....as long as you have a massive dmg weapon

and plz, better than other rhinos....... ok let;s get this straight, i dont wanna repeat, this is not a moba[tho it seems like they are trying to make it one, in that case DE has failed......]!and what the fk do you need skills in this game for....especially with rhino, its just time and luck, no skills required as long as you are capable of running and clicking, and have the patience of going through the same map for 300 times for a single mod[tranquil cleave= =].

srsly id say the only thing that matters on a warframe is sustainability, thats why i love valkyr and trinity, damage is your weapon's job, your warframe in that case is only a support, i dont mind being a floating magical 10000dmg per bullet soma as long as i can stay alive.

UH

 

I main a Valkyr and ill tell you theres no way i can beat accelerant + boar prime to the face with Ember

 

Way too much burst power

 

Idk why youd even make that comparison as if it has any chance of being true

[SandwitchPrime]

"what place does a game have for a character thats slow AND squishy?

especially a game that wants you to survive while having 20 guns constantly firing at you?"

Perfectly put sir, you get it, i ALWAYS say this in these ember threads and apparently not many ppl seem to realize that, guess said ppl's experience with said warframe comes outta their a**es.

Anyways, my current solution to this is building my ember all around accelerant, seeing as that's the only way to stop those 20 guns from mowing you down while you hopelessly shot your ignis and fireballs all over the place.

No WoF on this build, like you wisely noticed there is no point in doing so, you are just better off using accelerant again and shooting with fire, preferrably the ignis, since 2s of stun barely gives you time to aim.

Unfortunately ember suffers more than any other warframe from the syndrome of not enough mod slots, reason why i cant equip rush either.

See, nova and ember are based on the same concept, period, glass cannons, there is no way to deny that, but comparing them we notice that nova can make the enemies 75% slower and she can run faster than any warframe barring loki, that's her defense; as for ember, she is slow as eff and has no way to defend herself except spamming accelerant, DE should really stop and think about ember's role in this game,all of the enemies have been vastly improved difficulty wise, while some older frames were left to dust and not adapted to such changes, see that i use the word "adapted", not buffed.

As tc again wisely pointed, ember is barely 'a nightmare for unarmored enemies' anymore, let alone the fact that anything can strip her out of energy now...She's far from my favorite warframe but she is the one that needs a rework the most, then oberon, then nekros, then excal, then mag (sort of).

agreed= =

once again there was a purpose for overheat to exist, a purpose DE forgot. that left ember with no defense and spending 50 energy on mini stuns isnt wise.

what i have in mind is remove fire blast since this ability is nothing but a wonderfully visualized piece of crap, it only works when a buch of melee enemies are surrounding you and we all know that in that sort of situation 1 or 2 fireballs can get it done for a lower cost. then put back in our old friend overheat, maybe a nerfed version, nerf the dmg, remove the dmg idc, but as long as DE keeps the defense buff im happy.

the reason i heard form DE for nerfing ember was that she isnt how they wanted us to play her.....now that right there just pisses me off, in this sort of time when every single game is using freedom as a pro in advertising, a game shouldnt just go and nerf somthing because the players are "doing it wrong" , i guess people just dont get it, players aint expecting people to tell them how to do things, if they do they may as well go back to school, they want to discover by them selves this is why sandbox games are so popular, people get exited when they discovered how to break the meta, and they get pissed off when the developers just go "hey look you guys are doing it wrong we are going to nerf this untill you get it", the same happened to elise top in LoL. People play games to get freedom, the freedom that most people dont truely have in real life, its the one place that no one goes up to them and says hey you are doing it worng and i wish they can just stop trying to ruin this feeling. maybe im asking too much but arent developers suppose to go with what we like and not go "this is how we like you to do it now deal with it"

 

[SandwitchPrime]

UH

 

I main a Valkyr and ill tell you theres no way i can beat accelerant + boar prime to the face with Ember

 

Way too much burst power

 

Idk why youd even make that comparison as if it has any chance of being true

how many bloody times do i need to tell you, this aint no moba, this game is about surviving not how high the numbers pop up, and what's the dmg for if you are gonna get killed with in 30 seconds? [not a large number i tell ya, and if you go to hight level maps with ember you are lucky you survived that much.]

ok true, that comparison is dumb, really valkyr was never famous for dmg, but she had to be one of the best tanks in this game other than trinity.......if you cant kill her quicker than she can cast hysteria you cant kill her at all

[Azawarau]

how many bloody times do i need to tell you, this aint no moba, this game is about surviving not how high the numbers pop up, and what's the dmg for if you are gonna get killed with in 30 seconds? [not a large number i tell ya, and if you go to hight level maps with ember you are lucky you survived that much.]

ok true, that comparison is dumb, really valkyr was never famous for dmg, but she had to be one of the best tanks in this game other than trinity.......if you cant kill her quicker than she can cast hysteria you cant kill her at all

I can literally spam accelerant all day with rejuvination rage build and stay going for an extremely long time

 

My only issue is balancing out the range of Accelerant with the range of WoF

 

Need a specific rank of overextended for it

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

agreed= =

once again there was a purpose for overheat to exist, a purpose DE forgot. that left ember with no defense and spending 50 energy on mini stuns isnt wise.

what i have in mind is remove fire blast since this ability is nothing but a wonderfully visualized piece of crap, it only works when a buch of melee enemies are surrounding you and we all know that in that sort of situation 1 or 2 fireballs can get it done for a lower cost. then put back in our old friend overheat, maybe a nerfed version, nerf the dmg, remove the dmg idc, but as long as DE keeps the defense buff im happy.

the reason i heard form DE for nerfing ember was that she isnt how they wanted us to play her.....now that right there just &!$$es me off, in this sort of time when every single game is using freedom as a pro in advertising, a game shouldnt just go and nerf somthing because the players are "doing it wrong" , i guess people just dont get it, players aint expecting people to tell them how to do things, if they do they may as well go back to school, they want to discover by them selves this is why sandbox games are so popular, people get exited when they discovered how to break the meta, and they get &!$$ed off when the developers just go "hey look you guys are doing it wrong we are going to nerf this untill you get it", the same happened to elise top in LoL. People play games to get freedom, the freedom that most people dont truely have in real life, its the one place that no one goes up to them and says hey you are doing it worng and i wish they can just stop trying to ruin this feeling. maybe im asking too much but arent developers suppose to go with what we like and not go "this is how we like you to do it now deal with it"

Totally agreed, see, trinity needed a nerf badly IMO, problem is they made the stupid decision to make us look at other people's health in a fast paced game while we avoid getting shot, while we kill, while we avoid being rippes out of energy just to receive a considerable amount of dmg reduction, should've been a fixed amount like 40% affected by power strenght, so blibd rage build would even the energy cost with benefits. Nova got a perfect retune if you ask me, frost is still very lacking, they screwed uo badly when they removes the CC of avalanche, that totally fitted his theme and didnt make him any more op than nyx or rhino, they said they would revisit it and obviously forgot about. All that to say that ember finds herself in a middle ground, accelerant os awesome but it came at the full cost of her defenses, not a simple nerf, more than that, a rape if you ask me.

Likw you said fireblast is completely random for her, spatial control means jack when you have 20 gubs shooting you from a far or ancients pulling you abd draining energy, solutions are, IMO:

-Just like blessing and avalanche got way faster animations, WoF needs it as well.

- Make accelerant decrease affected ranged enemies accuracy and slows them down a bit, not as much as nova.

- If said changes are implementes to accel, fireblast could stay but feature bigger area and duration, if accel stays the same, replace fireblast with a nerfed overheat or something that slows enemies down and decrease their accuracy.

[DeadScream]

Guess what ? 

 

Overheat wouldn't allow you to use accelerant, so using Overheat would prevent you from doing enough damage.

 

So your issue would be even worse with overheat back. Ember would be tanky but rather useless in terms of DPS, and she is meant to be a damage frame, not a tank. 

 

 

All she needs is toggle on WoF and maybe an increased sprint speed. 

[Tsunero]

I mained Ember for a long time but after they took away Overheat I switched to Valkyr. They should remove Fireblast and replace it with Overheat. I might even main her again if that happens.

[Eminem2420]

What I don't think people realize is the fact that every damage based Warframe will start to become less useful as the enemies increase in levels, and start to become damage soaking giants. 

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

What I don't think people realize is the fact that every damage based Warframe will start to become less useful as the enemies increase in levels, and start to become damage soaking giants.

Exactly, now consider that heat became way less relevant after 2.0 and even more after some changes in the very damage 2.0.

Nova will always be good because she's not only able to increase damage taken by enemies but also slows them down, which for me is the best part about MP, if the team communicates enough Accelerant can become even deadlier once ppl start stacking corrosive on enemies, but that's far unpractical for normal play, and quite honestly, not the way devs intended ember to be played. Accelerant should debuff enemies accuracy as well or slows them down or both.

[Monolake]

UH

 

I main a Valkyr and ill tell you theres no way i can beat accelerant + boar prime to the face with Ember

 

Way too much burst power

 

Idk why youd even make that comparison as if it has any chance of being true

sorry, what burst?

[Kyphe]

Ember was the most boring pile of poo I ever played. leveled and sold right away, will sell prime as soon as leveled also.

 

there is a reason you never see this frame in game.

[DeadScream]

Ember was the most boring pile of poo I ever played. leveled and sold right away, will sell prime as soon as leveled also.

 

there is a reason you never see this frame in game.

Some Tenno just want to see the world burn. 

 

If you disliked playing with Ember, you are missing the fun factor, which is very strong with this warframe. 

 

Ever felt the power feel of a well placed Fire Ball - head shot after an accelerant stun on a massive enemy group ? 

You will never be able to feel that much power with another warframe, if you are not using an explosive weapon. You can do more damage, but you will never be able to have more fun. 

 

Except with Banshee <3

[Azawarau]

sorry, what burst?

Imagine the strongest burst DPS gun in the game

 

Now add 5 forma and  multiply its damage by 5. something and you get the kind of damage ember can output

 

Im not saying Valkyr is weak but Embers damage output is hard to beat with weapons alone

[SandwitchPrime]

Guess what ? 

 

Overheat wouldn't allow you to use accelerant, so using Overheat would prevent you from doing enough damage.

 

So your issue would be even worse with overheat back. Ember would be tanky but rather useless in terms of DPS, and she is meant to be a damage frame, not a tank. 

 

 

All she needs is toggle on WoF and maybe an increased sprint speed. 

ok, here's the thing, if you wanna rely on warframe for your dmg look no further than nova, that's it, even with accel you cant expect ember to do too much dmg, and like i said in other replies, your warframe's main goal is to survive, i dont mind having a invincible warframe with no dmg output in it's abilities.

[SandwitchPrime]

Some Tenno just want to see the world burn. 

 

If you disliked playing with Ember, you are missing the fun factor, which is very strong with this warframe. 

 

Ever felt the power feel of a well placed Fire Ball - head shot after an accelerant stun on a massive enemy group ? 

You will never be able to feel that much power with another warframe, if you are not using an explosive weapon. You can do more damage, but you will never be able to have more fun. 

 

Except with Banshee <3

= =i had tonnes of fun watching people die just by standing near me with overheat= =

and fireball snipes dont require accel

[SandwitchPrime]

Totally agreed, see, trinity needed a nerf badly IMO, problem is they made the stupid decision to make us look at other people's health in a fast paced game while we avoid getting shot, while we kill, while we avoid being rippes out of energy just to receive a considerable amount of dmg reduction, should've been a fixed amount like 40% affected by power strenght, so blibd rage build would even the energy cost with benefits. Nova got a perfect retune if you ask me, frost is still very lacking, they screwed uo badly when they removes the CC of avalanche, that totally fitted his theme and didnt make him any more op than nyx or rhino, they said they would revisit it and obviously forgot about. All that to say that ember finds herself in a middle ground, accelerant os awesome but it came at the full cost of her defenses, not a simple nerf, more than that, a rape if you ask me.

Likw you said fireblast is completely random for her, spatial control means jack when you have 20 gubs shooting you from a far or ancients pulling you abd draining energy, solutions are, IMO:

-Just like blessing and avalanche got way faster animations, WoF needs it as well.

- Make accelerant decrease affected ranged enemies accuracy and slows them down a bit, not as much as nova.

- If said changes are implementes to accel, fireblast could stay but feature bigger area and duration, if accel stays the same, replace fireblast with a nerfed overheat or something that slows enemies down and decrease their accuracy.

for the fireblast part,wont a huge dmg large range dot skill just be another WoF? ive seen DE making stupid choices but i dont thing they'll make this one......

valkyr and trinity are the two truely 'unkillable' warframe....trinity is actually better suited for solo play.

tbh, there is no point nerfing anything, this aint no moba there isnt even a decent PVP system. why worry about balance?

[ArcusVeles]

Why

 

Why did i type all of that then hit F5

 

Fire is effective against every faction

 

Shadows of the dead is very slow too

 

Ember needs a toggle for WoF to make her gain mod space and have better synergy with her powers

 

This is all I need.  Leave the big cast time on it, but let it just keep draining energy + keep on blasting things until cancelled or out of energy.

 

For anyone bothered by her lack of end game viability, I think not having to maintain WoF (and make yourself vulnerable with that long &amp;#&#33; cast time) and being able to fire your guns while it continues would help her a lot.  Also fire procs count as cc.

[Azawarau]

This is all I need.  Leave the big cast time on it, but let it just keep draining energy + keep on blasting things until cancelled or out of energy.

 

For anyone bothered by her lack of end game viability, I think not having to maintain WoF (and make yourself vulnerable with that long @$$ cast time) and being able to fire your guns while it continues would help her a lot.  Also fire procs count as cc.

Another very viable option would be to give her a great increase in duration so you wouldnt be too heavily reliant on durational mods that would destroy your range or be far too short to get your wroth from them

 

Would also make it sustainable and not get the whole no ES while using Toggle powers stuck to it

 

Though itd save her less mod space this way itd still help

[(PSN)Mr_DeeezNutz]

I have a quick question. I use Ember ALOT and i love fire blast because it just kill everything in impact but while its up it stop damaging any enemy. when i play defense i put it up and enemy just walk right in and start hitting the Cryopod like nothing. i dont think this is normal but i might be wrong so i want to double check.

[PeanutMonster]

Saryn > Ember when playing against Infested, in my opinion. Ember definitely needs some buffs.