feminist- Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Firstly I should explain the "Hedgehog's Dilemma" for those who have never heard of it"It describes a situation in which a group of hedgehogs all seek to become close to one another in order to share heat during cold weather. They must remain apart, however, as they cannot avoid hurting one another with their sharp spines. Though they all share the intention of a close reciprocal relationship, this may not occur, for reasons they cannot avoid."It's a metaphor for human relationships: "The hedgehog's dilemma suggests that despite goodwill, human intimacy cannot occur without substantial mutual harm, and what results is cautious behavior and weak relationships. With the hedgehog's dilemma, one is recommended to use moderation in affairs with others both because of self-interest, as well as out of consideration for others. The hedgehog's dilemma is used to justify or explain introversion and isolationism."See more at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedgehog's_dilemmaArthur Schopenhauer used the phrase in his essays and spent a lot of time writing about both romance, and being alone:“A man can be himself only so long as he is alone; and if he does not love solitude, he will not love freedom; for it is only when he is alone that he is really free.” You may have heard the phrase yourself if you watched the EVANGELION animated series:http://youtu.be/obmqd-w3hjEOkay, so you often hear that happiness comes within and that it cannot come from external sources. You hear people say often that "you can't find love until you love yourself". But given what we know about human needs for socialization and relationships, can we really say that a person could love himself despite being universally hated or universally neglected (or some combination of the two) I say universally not in the literal meaning but to describe the totality of the interactions one has in their life with human beings at any one given point. How often do we see someone who is truly free of all dependant relationships and is happy despite this situation? Of course people claim "well I'd be happy even without my boyfriend/girlfriend/wife/husband/friends" but how can the positively know that is true?Can a person allow themselves self love without seeking some sort of outside affirmation? If so how can this be achieved without losing a grasp on the reality of their worth in the eyes of others? Wouldn't a person who was completely self satisfied show psychopathic behavior?I want to hear your opinions but please PLEASE also include how you came to such a conclusion giving examples from your experience (no specific details are necessary; we can speak in general terms)Looking forward to reading your responses. =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChinaTercel Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I'm only 17 and have no life :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cladin Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 (edited) needs a TL;RD Couldn't the hedgehogs make a hedgehog igloo where the spines were faced outwards and their bodyheat was radiated inwards to share between all of them? All jokes aside i have no idea what you're talking about, although i'm sure its very deep and to even consider posting it on this forum you must be a very deep individual. Edited July 27, 2014 by cladin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feminist- Posted July 27, 2014 Author Share Posted July 27, 2014 I'm only 17 and have no life :D Your life is just starting. You're observations are no less valid or useful than an older bloke, they simply lack the volume of experiences they have. But this is no guarantee that they have more wisdom or knowledge than you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feminist- Posted July 27, 2014 Author Share Posted July 27, 2014 needs a TL;RD All jokes aside i have no idea what you're talking about, although i'm sure its very deep and to even consider posting it on this forum you must be a very deep individual. I could try to break it down more simply but then I risk making facile arguments. Let me ask you this question: do you think it would be possible to be just as happy in isolation for a year with no real human interactions as you could be spending a year with a person you are in love with and many of your closest friends? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanatoasty Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Kudos to you good sir/madam, for you are bringing in at least some part of erudite conversations, and after reading people wanting to get platinum discounts for the DDOS attack today (which, I remind you, DE is spending their weekend trying to fix), some intelligence on the forums is a welcomed addition! Now, onto subject. Personally, I don't see the human mindset is "wired" up to allow complete reliance on self love (at least, as a replacement for social acceptance). I'm not a psychologist, nor do I have any such claims, but I do notice the evolutionary advantages and favorable selection bias towards individuals that are, in the very least, derive more joy and "utility" from social interactions and social affirmations. Precisely due to the selection bias, the tendency for social dependence has been strengthened throughout the human history. These effects, much like genetic selection, would provide the necessary foundations for my thoughts through the evolutionary perspective. Complete self doting (read narcissism), is not exactly characterized by psychotic behavior, nor is it (from personal speculations) the cause of psychotic behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I'm a criminal psychology major so I have no real insight into philosophy, but I can tell you that humans are hard-wired for group interaction and isolation can be very dangerous. No matter how unhappy other people make you, you'll be even less happy on your own. It's human nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cladin Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 (edited) I could try to break it down more simply but then I risk making facile arguments. Let me ask you this question: do you think it would be possible to be just as happy in isolation for a year with no real human interactions as you could be spending a year with a person you are in love with and many of your closest friends? For the majority of human individuals- no not ever (that group includes me.) However i do think that there are some people out there who are content to live without anything like that. I think that group is few in numbers but out there. (I use group in a figurative sense because you know.) edit: wow you guys/gals are all so much more educated than me. *_* Edited July 27, 2014 by cladin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feminist- Posted July 27, 2014 Author Share Posted July 27, 2014 Kudos to you good sir/madam, for you are bringing in at least some part of erudite conversations, and after reading people wanting to get platinum discounts for the DDOS attack today (which, I remind you, DE is spending their weekend trying to fix), some intelligence on the forums is a welcomed addition! Now, onto subject. Personally, I don't see the human mindset is "wired" up to allow complete reliance on self love (at least, as a replacement for social acceptance). I'm not a psychologist, nor do I have any such claims, but I do notice the evolutionary advantages and favorable selection bias towards individuals that are, in the very least, derive more joy and "utility" from social interactions and social affirmations. Precisely due to the selection bias, the tendency for social dependence has been strengthened throughout the human history. These effects, much like genetic selection, would provide the necessary foundations for my thoughts through the evolutionary perspective. Complete self doting (read narcissism), is not exactly characterized by psychotic behavior, nor is it (from personal speculations) the cause of psychotic behavior. Thank you. We're definitely a social animal. If you observe pack animals such as wolves you'll definitely see how socialization leads to better odds of survival. Yes narcissism would be far more likely a result than literal psychopathy. I was intending to point to the fact that the person who is self-reliant for happiness would not have any reason to care about the feelings of others and thus would lack an ability to empathize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feminist- Posted July 27, 2014 Author Share Posted July 27, 2014 I'm a criminal psychology major so I have no real insight into philosophy, but I can tell you that humans are hard-wired for group interaction and isolation can be very dangerous. No matter how unhappy other people make you, you'll be even less happy on your own. It's human nature. I was leaning towards that conclusion, but that leaves me puzzled as to why people would insist that self love be achieved first or should be the sole focus of our attention? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feminist- Posted July 28, 2014 Author Share Posted July 28, 2014 For the majority of human individuals- no not ever (that group includes me.) However i do think that there are some people out there who are content to live without anything like that. I think that group is few in numbers but out there. (I use group in a figurative sense because you know.) edit: wow you guys/gals are all so much more educated than me. *_* I agree that hypothetically it could be possible to be a hermit and meditate one's way to happiness, but how many such cases of this do we know exist? and if it is the exception rather than the rule, is it really fair to set it as the goal and set and expectation for others (and ourselves) to reach such a goal? Don't worry about education level. Anyone of significant intelligence is a constant learner and aware of the vastness of his/her ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanatoasty Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Thank you. We're definitely a social animal. If you observe pack animals such as wolves you'll definitely see how socialization leads to better odds of survival. Yes narcissism would be far more likely a result than literal psychopathy. I was intending to point to the fact that the person who is self-reliant for happiness would not have any reason to care about the feelings of others and thus would lack an ability to empathize. Just a harmless question, would this topic happen to be for school or other related activities? Even in regular society, the ability to empathize can be weakened, so it's not far-fetched to say in an isolated environment, humans are definitely more likely to lose the ability to empathize, and very likely, they will lose it a lot faster than people in civilized locations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I was leaning towards that conclusion, but that leaves me puzzled as to why people would insist that self love be achieved first or should be the sole focus of our attention? Human psychology is a bizarre thing. Even if we love ourselves, we feel incomplete when we're alone. There's also a difference between solitude and isolation. Bear in mind I know more about deviancy than normal psychology so I not may be the best source of information here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feminist- Posted July 28, 2014 Author Share Posted July 28, 2014 Just a harmless question, would this topic happen to be for school or other related activities? No it's a completely personal interest =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feminist- Posted July 28, 2014 Author Share Posted July 28, 2014 Human psychology is a bizarre thing. Even if we love ourselves, we feel incomplete when we're alone. There's also a difference between solitude and isolation. Bear in mind I know more about deviancy than normal psychology so I not may be the best source of information here. Every piece of the puzzle is important ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Every piece of the puzzle is important ;) Well I can tell you that social isolation is generally considered a warning sign for more extreme behavior. It's definitely not typical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djentlemenBehold Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 2Eva4Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feminist- Posted July 28, 2014 Author Share Posted July 28, 2014 2Eva4Me or not Eva enough ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraduateArc8298 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Well I can tell you that social isolation is generally considered a warning sign for more extreme behavior. It's definitely not typical. well,If that is true, then I am a complete psychopath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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