Twin Vipers: Useless Garbage? Or Underpowered Trash? You Decide.

[Dissonetic]

*EDIT* Apparently my title wasn't very clear, so let me rephrase this: This is a discussion on how BAD Twin Vipers, aka, AKVipers, are at LEVEL 1, UNMODDED, and how they compare to other weapons at Level 1. Because, let's be honest, when you BUY something from a store, you KINDA want it to work, at least a little.

 

Let me preface with something POSITIVE before I rage: I loved the Viper. It was cool. It was fun. It was like a mini-machine gun for a sidearm. The AK version, however...

 

The Rage: (Feel FREE to skip this, since it's more or less me venting)

The Damage is amazingly low, the clip size is uselessly small and the magizine size itself is HORRIBLE. An entire clip will kill an average Grineer Soldier, if you hit EVERY SINGLE SHOT from that clip, 28 bullets! It takes close to a 1/3 to 1/2 of a clip to kill the unarmored, low HP Grineer Suicide Squad Grunts (Aka, A******s with Chainsaws) Why? Because EACH SHOT DOES ANYWHERE FROM 1-4 DAMAGE ON ARMORED TARGETS. That's without mods. You have about 10 clips. That's fantastic. Not to mention, the reload time is obscene for the lack of damage it does (Yes, it is an Akimbo, I realize this). AKLATO is more useful than this garbage.

 

Now, rage aside, constructive argument and example time. So, I finally earn enough to do my Level 2 Test, which I have been saving up my Platinum to buy my much awaited Gram with. It turns out to be a side-arm test, and i happen to have Twin Vipers equipped. I come out with 100% ACCURACY, in a failed test. Why? Because I ran out of AMMO. Nowhere NEAR enough ammo drops to use those weapons for the test. So... I fail because of my weapon choice!? I take my time to carefully aim these mini AK-47s, hit every shot, AND GET PUNISHED FOR IT!? How fair is that? NOWHERE on the forums was it even hinted "These new guns are absolute trash, don't use them for anything meaningful or important. They exist solely to make a BZZZT sound as they burn through ammo in the most useless way possible." So now, I have to wait another day, and buy another gun, JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE SO USELESS?!? I literally know of NO other weapon that can NOT clear a TEST. If it can't even pass the PROFICIENCY TEST AT 100% ACCURACY, what good are they? And for a whopping 225 Plat at THAT.

 

Of all my item purchases from this game, I can honestly say this is the ONLY one I regret, and regret it I do. In all honesty, I don't even care if it gets buffed at a later time, or becomes more useful as it levels up. I dump 10-15$ on an item that can't even pass the basic proficiency test? Horrible. Just Horrible. It IS an Open Beta, yes, but with everything as polished and seamless as it already is, this glaring fault stands out so much for me. If a gun can't even pass the pistol test, what's the point of having the test? If some guns work and others don't, players get PUNISHED for liking a SPECIFIC GUN? If it's like this, just force-equip the basic gear when the test begins, so if the player DOES fail, it isn't because they chose the "Wrong Guns"

 

I REALLY do LOVE this game, but it's the little things like this that really turn people off. I love a gun, and I got kicked in the face for liking it.

Edited April 14, 2013 by Navigate

[Venarge]

These things are beast. They are awesome.

[MrGrae]

Mods, mods, and a few more mods, that's what it's all about, get some mag extenders and ammo cap increases, throw an AP mod and some damage/crit boosts, done and dusted

[Kynian]

The test is to kill 3 waves with sidearm only. No ammo drops there I believe. These weapons are to use in normal levels. You CAN use them in tests, and if you do, all mods you got on it come with it. So put more ammo and damage on it so you burn less ammo and also have more ammo to spare, and you're golden.

Then way you said you brought a low level weapon with few to no mods whatsoever on it for a test and is raging. That's your fault, if that's the case.


Whenever I take a test, not just in this game, in anything, I ALWAYS go in tip-top shape. For this game this means my most advanced and modded weapons.

 

Also, I don't have them, but I'm sure they're good.

[Cleesus]

Somehow my Twin Vipers seem to be the exact opposite of yours damage wise, mine can waste alot of enemies, must be because of the mods. I agree that the magazine size is way too low, i got mines at 32 atm but still, clip and magazine size could use a slight buff.

[Hammerspace]

Two different problems and I agree with both.

 

1. Clip size should scale with ROF, reload time and total damage done with one clip.

 

2. Mastery test should have a practice round with refit option.

[OrtuOcelot]

I am truly satisfied with my Twin Vipers, I can mow down anything quiet easily, maybe not Ancients, but then again that's why I have a shotgun or rifle, and/or melee weapon. It really comes down to mods, though, any weapon can be useful if modded correctly. Might mess around with the "Gunslinger" mod and see how much more ridiculously fast these can get XD

[NemoTheClown]

The Damage is amazingly low, the clip size is uselessly small and the magizine size itself is HORRIBLE. An entire clip will kill an average Grineer Soldier, if you hit EVERY SINGLE SHOT from that clip, 28! It takes close to a 1/3 to 1/2 of a clip to kill the unarmored, low HP Grineer Suicide Squad Grunts (Aka, A******s with Chainsaws) Why? Because EACH SHOT DOES ANYWHERE FROM 1-4 DAMAGE ON ARMORED TARGETS. That's without mods. You have about 10 clips. That's fantastic. Not to mention, the reload time is obscene for the lack of damage it does (Yes, it is an Akimbo, I realize this). AKLATO is more useful than this garbage.

First of all you need to lvl this piece of gold up first. And of course, if you'r only applying elemental damage, this won't really work in combat. Put amor piercing on and upgrade base damage, it will do up to around 80 dmg (It makes like 2 damages with armor piercing, 45+35 or something). Put some reload speed on and extended ammo capacity.

[Scherhardt]

I can kill an army with this baby.

[Sherbniz]

I agree they can be painful to level with no mods, and the idea that high-damage, slow pistols get the same ammo as a fast-firing peashooter is a bit counterproductive, but once you get in those mods it's not such a bad weapon.

[rhoenix]

A summary for most of the replies in this thread - don't judge an item or frame in Warframe without maxing its level at 30, and THEN seeing what you can do with it.

 

Until you can do so and give a proper comparison against other "finished" weapons, it's comparing... well, an unfinished weapon versus a finished one.

Edited April 14, 2013 by rhoenix

[Dissonetic]

Oh, no. I never once said the fully modded, 30 version was bad. Far from it. But even the starting LATO does FAR MORE than these per clip without mods. When the pistol test includes armored enemies, it basically renders these level 1 guns obscenely useless, hence the point where I called for a forced-equiping of, say Lato, for the sake of the tests, so no one can repeat my $&*&*#(%& move. Because, let's be fair, using an unmodded gun hardly calls for losing THAT badly. I didn't even make it to wave 3, WITH 100% accuracy, if I may remind you.

[rhoenix]

My suggestion:  go to Tolstoj, and beat up Captain Vor and steal his sword a few times.  It's honestly what I do every time I start breaking in a new weapon.  And, you get a nice chunk of cash out of it in the bargain.

[krisp]

Oh, no. I never once said the fully modded, 30 version was bad. Far from it. But even the starting LATO does FAR MORE than these per clip without mods. When the pistol test includes armored enemies, it basically renders these level 1 guns obscenely useless, hence the point where I called for a forced-equiping of, say Lato, for the sake of the tests, so no one can repeat my $&*&*#(%& move. Because, let's be fair, using an unmodded gun hardly calls for losing THAT badly. I didn't even make it to wave 3, WITH 100% accuracy, if I may remind you.

Shoot armored things in the head. The lato may do more per clip but it can't match the dps.

[Dissonetic]

The BIGGEST issue with Twin Vipers is the INABILITY to do anything BUT burn ammo, even if you don't want to. The slightest touch of the trigger sends a good 5-10 bullets out the window, depending on how fast you let go. So even if I WERE to headshot with these inaccurate little buggers, it doesn't help that I'll burn through my ammo pool SLIGHTLY slower. Now again, this argument is all about how CRAPPY they are at lower level, not leveling them. Honestly, the huge lack of ammunition is baffling if you ask me: You take the time, as a soldier, to equip 2 GUNS, and not enough ammunition to use them? Grade A Genius right there. Not to mention how half of the frames look like they have inter-dimensional AMMO PACKS strapped onto a various part of their bodies (I'm sorry, those, AHEM, *Stylistic Bulges*) It's honestly baffling to me. Now, granted, I also see the flipside: If Akimbo weapons have TOO MUCH starting ammo, then the ammo mods will make them basically endless: Not good. But to not give them an even SLIGHTLY larger ammo pool is both frustrating and downright weird. You have two guns, even if you can only carry the SAME number of clips, YOU STILL HAVE AN EXTRA GUN, hence, an EXTRA CLIP that is ALREADY inside of it.

[Cleesus]

I didnt find mines crappy at the lower level, besides fighting the Grineer i thought they did pretty well for their level.

 

The Twin Vipers biggest problem is ammo and magazine size and the fact that these machine pistols are stuck with in the same ammo pool as semi automatic pistols that dont require as much ammo.

[Habba]

This thing worked well for me too , give it a barrel diffusion mod , hornet strike and no return . And i think the crit-Chance of this thing is quit high . It`s just a beasty gun , no matter if corpus , infested or grineer , i get em all :D . The only Problem i have is the ammunition , ist just not enough , even with Trick mag :P

[AdultHero]

I'm afraid going into any ranking test with a rank 0 (rank 1 in your case?) weapon is a dumb thing to do.

 

But you did one dumber than that.

 

You didn't even test your rank 0 weapon in a normal game before heading into the ranking test.

 

So tell me, who do you have to blame for that series of decisions? Who should you be angry with?

 

Hint : It's not the guys at Digital Extreme

Edited April 14, 2013 by AdultHero

[Flunky]

ammo is a S#&$ mechanic with no purpose but to be annoying and to give monsters a feeling like they drop something since they ran out of better ideas for loot

[Ced23Ric]

The Dual Staple Guns are probably the most ridiculously overpowered weapon in the game. I can solo Pluto without an ammobox with those kittens. They just vaporize any enemy up to level 50 in less than a second. Multiples per clip. Oneshot Crewmen.

[Mir.]

Feedback taken.

 

I'll proceed right away into crafting them.

[Anelyn]

You need to realize that Viper / Twin Vipers are a close quarter combat (CQC) side arm. They are not meant to spray targets at medium / long range. You won't need more than 3-4 bullets (short burst) in a grineer's head to kill them (this goes all way up to end planets - with the right mods).

Viper & Twin's have no armor pen, so shooting grineers anywhere else than in head, will result in crappy damage. I can kill 5-6 lvl 40+ grineers with 1 clip of a Viper (no mod for larger magazine, standard), 5-6 corpus on Pluto (of any type, moas or crewmen alike), and several infested (non ancients obv).

[-GG-Sinevultu]

Nice to know, i stopped to think about twin vipers, got fun with the single hand version but honestly if i want a machinegun i go with gorgon not with a pistol always out of ammo, but afterall i am happy with Lex, 1180 damage crit headshot to greeners/corpus lvl 40+ with ONE bullett (and without all mods maxed).

Edited April 15, 2013 by Clownsanity

[Wilde05]

They are awesome with the right mods and against enemies below level 45. But against level 50 ancients, they really suck. 3-4 damage with piercing mods/elementals/damage mods. 

[Thypari2013]

I spent my whole money on creating twin vipers, just to find myself be out of ammo ALWAYS.

 

The enemies never spawn enough of ammo to keep my twin vipers running through a mission. In fact after 5-6 enemies i am out of ammo.

 

 

I feel like I waisted all my money and time on S#&$.