Why So Much Excalibur Hate? :(

[(PSN)AnElderGod]

I never even see what their secondaries and melee are because I get booted for being a " Excalibur Noob " ?

 

Wait wait wait wait. You can boot people from lobbies in this game?

[WarframeStigma]

Familiarity breeds contempt. Excalibur is a victim of his own success and has become synonymous with noob players. Not fair really, but elitism exists even amongst Warframe players.

yet the elitists are casuals....

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Wait wait wait wait. You can boot people from lobbies in this game?

Leave the lobby and reinvite the people who listen to you.

 

 

yet the elitists are casuals....

Just the opposite actually.  The casual mentality is that all frames are always fine.  Casuals are the ones that don't want to min-max or preplan strategies.  They just want to run around shooting things "for fun".

[WarframeStigma]

Just the opposite actually.  The casual mentality is that all frames are always fine.  Casuals are the ones that don't want to min-max or preplan strategies.  They just want to run around shooting things "for fun".

i believe we have two different concepts of the word, while your definition is valid, i was using it in a more negative manner. the term "casual" can also refer to players that stick to a common metagame a completely common game, playing through with ease while others within that game or game genre prefer either more complex gameplay or gameplay that doesnt fall in the metagame. its like the difference between a "casual" that plays call of duty vs someone who plays battlefield or counter strike or something like that, or the difference between people who play league of legends vs people who play dota(which apparently is more complex) so all in all, casuals in this game would be people who think frames like Rhino Prime, Nova, or Loki are the only meta frames in the game.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

i believe we have two different concepts of the word, while your definition is valid, i was using it in a more negative manner. the term "casual" can also refer to players that stick to a common metagame a completely common game, playing through with ease while others within that game or game genre prefer either more complex gameplay or gameplay that doesnt fall in the metagame

 

casuals in this game would be people who think frames like Rhino Prime, Nova, or Loki are the only meta frames in the game.

Not really, the only people that use the term as you are implying are casuals that dislike being called such and try to use it as an insult.

 

The core gamer crowd are the ones that push the meta game and keep it constantly evolving.  Casuals don't play or understand the game at a deep enough level to do that.

 

Casuals in this game are people that think they should be allowed to bring an Oberon on a T4 key.

[(PSN)AnElderGod]

Leave the lobby and reinvite the people who listen to you.

Drat. I figured that's what he meant but I thought there was an actual kick option. I hate when I'm farming a mission with friends, a guy joins and comes out to the lobby with us then tries to pick something else. That's why I was glad to see the vote system added though.

 

Ignore this off topic post please lol.

[adarazrad]

Is the OP even following this long thread? Lol

[Spikey844]

Casuals in this game are people that think they should be allowed to bring an Oberon on a T4 key.

If they can play well with Oberon, why not?

[WarframeStigma]

Casuals in this game are people that think they should be allowed to bring an Oberon on a T4 key.

then the pros are people who can bring Oberon and use him with best efficiency...so what, many non CC frames scale off, but its about what you do to make up for it...bring a Trinity to mask that disadvantage

[Rawrjay]

Protips incoming.

 

1. Ignore anyone who uses Rhino Prime, Nyx, Nova, or Loki/Prime constantly

2. Ignore anyone who uses Dread, Paris Prime, Boltor Prime, Soma constantly

 

You're quality of life will increase dramatically. I guarantee it 100%.

 

Never listen to them. Nothing they say will be worth caring about at all whatsoever, especially when giving orders about missions.

 

Your*

 

But I agree.

 

I main Volt, and play around on Mag P, love the utility they bring and offensive spells they have. They suit my playstyle, and that is all that should matter, however, that is not the reality. 

 

As someone else pointed out, their key, their rules.

[adarazrad]

Your*

 

But I agree.

 

I main Volt, and play around on Mag P, love the utility they bring and offensive spells they have. They suit my playstyle, and that is all that should matter, however, that is not the reality. 

 

As someone else pointed out, their key, their rules.

Playstyle is all in this game, what makes evrey player unique, but in my opinion evreyone shuold keep thier playstyle and not be forced to do something diffrent, i guess we need to go back into the actual topic

[Eclipsen]

People disrespect Excalibur because, in all likelihood, he was their first frame. When they think of him, they think of his performance with no shields, no health, no mods, and no real game plan. They remember hitting Slash Dash and barely budging an enemy's health bar. It's a starter frame. It's expected.

 

So you show up on someone else's T4 key with him. People will think you are a noob. Personally, I'd go with it. He's a starter frame, but he also has the best CC in the game in Radial Blind. Specing him for it makes him a one-trick pony, but the trick is amazing. I've made my Excalibur for it, and I've seen others do the same.

Completely agree. After playing the game for 100 hours, I've come back to Excal with all my rare mods and he has become my favorite frame. I was surprised by how good he was. Radial Blind is amazing, and Radial Javelin is surprisingly powerful when upgraded with power and streamline mods, especially in Infested missions.

[IllIntentions]

Excalibur is the best frame in the game for endgame (endless missions). Bar none.

Arguments that state excalibur is inferior due to only having one viable skill make no sense. There are hardly any frames out there that use all their skills in the endgame. Even then, the fact that you have limited energy and have to balance out corrupted mods make using multiple skills extremely inefficient. One skill is all you need, since endgame dps comes from weapons anyway.

Arguments that state other frames do excaliburs job better are invalid as well. No other mass CC skill is as spammable as radial blind. It is effectively a 58m stunlock that goes through walls at the cost of 12.5 energy. It can be used every 2.5 seconds with natural talent. No other skill comes close at endgame.

Rhino, by comparison, is actually a terrible endgame frame. His only redeeming quality is roar, and even that is lackluster. Iron skin is useless when all damage sources can one shot you. Stomp is vastly inferior to radial blind when its damage counts for nothing, and its inability to be spammed will get you killed.

Nyx fares sligtly better, but lacks hard CC. Like i stated before, when every source of damage instagibs you, Chaos simply isn't good enough. Absorb is valuable though.

Loki's radial disarm is valuable, but still isnt hard CC. Those cattle prods can still one shot you if you arent careful. Also, it causes mobs to remain in constant motion, making lining up arrows challenging, and puts pressure on the team to upkeep dps in order to avoid getting swarmed. Radial blind does the opposite, causing arrows to be extremely damage and ammo efficient as it lets you line them up, and gives you unlimited breathing space.

In short, excalibur is the most valuable frame there is for endless missions. Normally i would put "in my opinion" before that statement, but it is fairly clear that this is an objective fact. I didnt even mention the 4x melee multiplier as I think that this isnt even close to the most valuable thing excalibur brings to the squad.

[Deccode]

Rhino, by comparison, is actually a terrible endgame frame. His only redeeming quality is roar, and even that is lackluster. Iron skin is useless when all damage sources can one shot you. Stomp is vastly inferior to radial blind when its damage counts for nothing, and its inability to be spammed will get you killed.

 

Your logic is invalid as well. You (plural) keep saying Iron Skin is useless because the damage in higher survival waves gets so high that Iron Skin will be negated quickly by enemies damage. Well, guess what. Excalibur doesnt have even that. If we take similar mods for both builds, Iron Stomp can be a 25 energy, 58.8m radius,8 seconds hard CC stun, while having Roar and Iron Skin, having higher overall stats and keeping higher survivability. Get your S#&$ together. You wont make your most beloved warframe better by bashing others with invalid arguments.

 

In short, excalibur is the most valuable frame there is for endless missions.

Not sure if serious or troll.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Deccode

[(PSN)D-onlinekilla-4D]

Your logic is invalid as well. You (plural) keep saying Iron Skin is useless because the damage in higher survival waves gets so high that Iron Skin will be negated quickly by enemies damage. Well, guess what. Excalibur doesnt have even that. If we take similar mods for both builds, Iron Stomp can be a 25 energy, 58.8m radius,8 seconds hard CC stun, while having Roar and Iron Skin, having higher overall stats and keeping higher survivability. Get your S#&$ together. You wont make your most beloved warframe better by bashing others with invalid arguments.

 

 

Not sure if serious or troll.

but Excal doesn't get shot at if you know what you doing

[adarazrad]

Your logic is invalid as well. You (plural) keep saying Iron Skin is useless because the damage in higher survival waves gets so high that Iron Skin will be negated quickly by enemies damage. Well, guess what. Excalibur doesnt have even that. If we take similar mods for both builds, Iron Stomp can be a 25 energy, 58.8m radius,8 seconds hard CC stun, while having Roar and Iron Skin, having higher overall stats and keeping higher survivability. Get your S#&$ together. You wont make your most beloved warframe better by bashing others with invalid arguments.

 

 

Not sure if serious or troll.

your rhino stomp isnt spamable, so if other enemies get in the radius after you cast it, you unable to do it agian for those 8 seconds, radial blind is spamable right after the stun ends

Edited August 26, 2014 by adarazrad

[Evanescent]

Your logic is invalid as well. You (plural) keep saying Iron Skin is useless because the damage in higher survival waves gets so high that Iron Skin will be negated quickly by enemies damage. Well, guess what. Excalibur doesnt have even that. If we take similar mods for both builds, Iron Stomp can be a 25 energy, 58.8m radius,8 seconds hard CC stun, while having Roar and Iron Skin, having higher overall stats and keeping higher survivability. Get your S#&$ together. You wont make your most beloved warframe better by bashing others with invalid arguments.

 

 

Not sure if serious or troll.

Dude, dude, dude.

 

Rhino is an excellent frame, I agree with you. People who bash other frames to make excal better are doing what they don't want others to do.

(I may have done so in the past myself). Here we're talking about the viablity of excal's powers, and why so many people seem to hate him. You will see, at T4 30-40 mins, that your weapons fail to kill enemies fast enough, and you try to stall them with stomp, more hordes will overrun and overpower you. While excalibur can just simply recast blind and have them stunlocked.

 

Rhino has awesome survivability, but he becomes largely weapon dependent at high levels. It will come down to the player to invest a huge amount of attention to keep him alive, as his survivability powers become split second distractions. Although the same can be said of excalibur, his powers allow him greater mobility and crowd control, so he can keep moving and keep enemies engaged at the same time, a valuable skill at high levels. 

[Deccode]

 

but Excal doesn't get shot at if you know what you doing

I assume you mean spamming 1 skill makes you a tenno that knows what he is doing, lol

*I typed that lol with a serious face

your rhino stomp isnt spamable, so if other enemies get in the radius after you cast it, you unable to do it agian for those 8 seconds, radial blind is spamable right after the stun ends

that's a good argument, I forgot about that fact

Dude, dude, dude.

 

Rhino is an excellent frame, I agree with you. People who bash other frames to make excal better are doing what they don't want others to do.

(I may have done so in the past myself). Here we're talking about the viablity of excal's powers, and why so many people seem to hate him. You will see, at T4 30-40 mins, that your weapons fail to kill enemies fast enough, and you try to stall them with stomp, more hordes will overrun and overpower you. While excalibur can just simply recast blind and have them stunlocked.

 

Rhino has awesome survivability, but he becomes largely weapon dependent at high levels. It will come down to the player to invest a huge amount of attention to keep him alive, as his survivability powers become split second distractions. Although the same can be said of excalibur, his powers allow him greater mobility and crowd control, so he can keep moving and keep enemies engaged at the same time, a valuable skill at high levels. 

My point is, and I guess yours as well in your first part of the post, that rhino is a good frame. But people are comparing him right now in this topic to excalibur because he is overused and throw every single argument with added bullS#&$ why rhino is "terrible" because herp derp 99% of the community is using him with boltor prime, damn please senpai, teach me your way of logic. And before you jump into conclusion, I myself think that excalibur is a good frame as well. I'm just saying that all of you, who have invalid arguments about good frames are overreacting. There are worse warframes, I can see this same exact topic being made tomorrow "Why do people hate rhino?". And then compare him to ember and the cycle continues.

That's being a hypocrite, I hate it.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Deccode

[IllIntentions]

Your logic is invalid as well. You (plural) keep saying Iron Skin is useless because the damage in higher survival waves gets so high that Iron Skin will be negated quickly by enemies damage. Well, guess what. Excalibur doesnt have even that. If we take similar mods for both builds, Iron Stomp can be a 25 energy, 58.8m radius,8 seconds hard CC stun, while having Roar and Iron Skin, having higher overall stats and keeping higher survivability.

If you manage your line of sight with the enemy, excalibur literally takes no damage. He does not need iron skin. On a long enough mission, 15k EHP becomes as weak as 500 EHP. The name of the game is total damage avoidance, not merely mitigation.

Rhino stomp does not make up for this because of its internal cooldown. This is reason why it will never be able to stunlock, even if it cost 0 energy.

Another issue I have with stomp (this one is a personal QoL one) is that it makes getting multiple headshots difficult due the positions it causes enemies to end up in.

I encourage you to look past the established dogma and think about what endless missions truly require. Endless scaling mobs render a lot of standard mechanics redundant. I didn't set out to "bash" any one frame, only to analyse their endgame efficacy.

With that said, I do believe that Rhino is the ultimate midgame frame. He requires very little to be effective by way of mods. Iron Skin is basically a free pass to 45 mins in survivals.

However, it is quite apparent that the majority of players consider this to be endgame and rarely venture beyond, which must be what the community's inflated opinion of Rhino's endgame can be attributed to.

Edited August 26, 2014 by IllIntentions

[TheFapman69]

I have nothing for or against Excal (probably because I don't use one) but when it comes to me hosting anything, I allow anyone to bring what they want because I believe in playing how you want. Want to be the cliche Rhino with Boltor Prime? Go ahead I don't care what ever fits your playstyle. Feel like using an Excal? Do it than all is welcome. But this if for easier things like a T1 - T2 run. Something like T3 or T4, my only request is that you bring what you're better with. Other than that go crazy in my games m8.

[Guest]

 

excalsuperjump4lyf

[Deccode]

If you manage your line of sight with the enemy, excalibur literally takes no damage. He does not need iron skin. On a long enough mission, 15k EHP becomes as weak as 500 EHP. The name of the game is total damage avoidance, not merely mitigation.

Rhino stomp does not make up for this because of its internal cooldown. This is reason why it will never be able to stunlock, even if it cost 0 energy.

Another issue I have with stomp (this one is a personal QoL one) is that it makes getting multiple headshots difficult due the positions it causes enemies to end up in.

I encourage you to look past the established dogma and think about what endless missions truly require. Endless scaling mobs render a lot of standard mechanics redundant. I didn't set out to "bash" any one frame, only to analyse their endgame efficacy.

With that said, I do believe that Rhino is the ultimate midgame frame. He requires very little to be effective by way of mods. Iron Skin is basically a free pass to 45 mins in survivals.

However, it is quite apparent that the majority of players consider this to be endgame and rarely venture beyond, which must be what the community's inflated opinion of Rhino's endgame can be attributed to.

I wouldn't put excalibur end game worthy either, but more endgame than rhino nonetheless.

[Redhux]

Even though I am mastery rank 13 on Ps4, I still can't get into a public T4 Tower!

I main Excalibur (5x Forma) and I'm getting bagged on by 3 other people who are running....

- Rhino Prime, Boltor Prime,

- Rhino Prime, Boltor Prime,

- Rhino Prime, Boltor Prime,

I never even see what their secondaries and melee are because I get booted for being a " Excalibur Noob " ?

I've given up on pugs in T4 now.

This happening to anyone else?

 

May i suggest you to go farm your OWN T4 KEYS in Interceptions missions, you'll be able to invite who you want to, PROBLEM SOLVED.

 

And for your personnal feeling, even if those individuals are brain limited to limited concept, WHY DO YOU EVEN CARE ABOUT THEM?

 

Just turn the page.

 

And yes, T4 at particular level require strong weapons and warframes, so of course, don't come with a Braton...

[LtZefar]

Excalibur only has one redeeming quality and that is the Radial Blind.

 

So it might not be all that much fun to play.

[adarazrad]

Excalibur only has one redeeming quality and that is the Radial Blind.

 

So it might not be all that much fun to play.

all novas use molecualr prime, all nekros desecrate. rhino skin is piece of paper so they all stomp, get my point?

 

besides, i use super jump on conclave, its awsome, and radial blind is actually fun, you can do finishers which are cool