When Serration,hornet Strike And Multishot Will Be Finally Removed Or Revamped?

[Alphafox]

Seriously why are they even in the game? They ''waste'' a mod and they are pretty much the one of the things that stop build diversity to be possible right now. Remove them and add the stat directly to the weapons and frames.

For the people who invested in them (I'm one of them too) give them a new mod (That is not exclusive) or give them a legendary core.

 

What we have right now is the illusion of choice. No one would take Fast hands,Ammo drum,etc. You think you have a choice because of those 8 mods slots. Sadly your selection is reduced at 6 mods.

 

To all the people that say's that they are ''meta mods'' I will explain you why they are not. The meta is when you use the optimal build to get the best results. In the case of serration,there is no other choice,it's the only way to increase your weapon damage. This is not a ''meta mod'' this is a requirement.

Why are they still there?

 

Edit:Clarity 

Edit: Illusion of choice

Edit:Small explanation on the definition of meta.

Edit:Edited thread title because some people don't go further than that.

Edit:The thread has been moved to general feedback 

Edited August 13, 2014 by Alphafox

[Detheroc]

DE has said something about that in a livestream. Go look it up, dont know which one it was tho.

[vaugahn]

Because gun damage and health are currently tied to them. We need a system where those things are separate first.

[Ionus]

Serration and multishot I understand but why redirection and vitality?

[Alphafox]

Because gun damage and health are currently tied to them. We need a system where those things are separate first.

That's quite obvious. 

[A5PECT]

They don't need to remove Redirection and Vitality. They need to make health-based tank builds viable, and have them operate in a sufficiently different way from shield tanks so the difference between the two is a matter of preference and playstyle rather than objective effectiveness. Also implement better and more varied health regeneration options so players actually have to choose between building to resist short-term burst damage or for long-term survivability.

Multishot is actually somewhat interesting as it not only informs weapon damage but also weapon status chance. It can stand some tweaking so it stops being an overbearingly powerful effect with no real downsides that precludes other mod choices.

Serration, Point Blank, and Hornet Strike can go die in a fire.

Edited August 12, 2014 by A5PECT

[Alphafox]

Serration and multishot I understand but why redirection and vitality?

Because they can already be added as a stat when a frame level up.

[paragasu]

Some of my build don't use those mods....

[Ionus]

Because they can already be added as a stat when a frame level up.

 

But still, most people don't even put vitality or redirection on many frames. The only ones I see them worth putting on are Rhino and Valkyr....

[Yazeth]

DE has said something about that in a livestream. Go look it up, dont know which one it was tho.

 

This was a thing? Can someone direct me plz?

[DoomsDayDan]

Because the community would whine too hard about losing mods they've dumped shetloads of cores and credits into, but I've said this in every other thread about this, not changing a broken system because people have invested in said broken system is a stupid decision

[ArkNeither]

So what kinds of mods would you guys be excited to slot into your weapons, if Serration, Splitchamber, and the likes were removed?

[Alphafox]

But still, most people don't even put vitality or redirection on many frames. The only ones I see them worth putting on are Rhino and Valkyr....

Valid point.

 

Because the community would whine too hard about losing mods they've dumped shetloads of cores and credits into, but I've said this in every other thread about this, not changing a broken system because people have invested in said broken system is a stupid decision

Release a new mod (that is not exclusive) that will give another stat,or give them legendary cores.

[(PSN)deathfrombelow5]

DE has said something about that in a livestream. Go look it up, dont know which one it was tho.

De said they regret adding these mods without having negative side effects. They said nothing about removing them. 

[BlutAdler]

Valid point.

 

Release a new mod (that is not exclusive) that will give another stat,or give them legendary cores.

Ohh okay, then what will you use those legendary cores for then? 

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Because gun damage and health are currently tied to them. We need a system where those things are separate first.

Put required mods like serration and redirection into skills trees in the gear itself and tie it to levels.  Leave the mod slots for utility and trade off mods.

[Arabaxus]

Am I the only one that doesn't mind Serration and Hornet Strike because I can use weapons I unlocked earlier at higher levels? Because the way I see it, removing Serration/Hornet/Multishot increases Mod Diversity at the cost of Gun Diversity. If I cannot increase the base damage of my gun, give me a reason why not to use the highest base DPS weapon of each of the kinds of weapons?

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

If I cannot increase the base damage of my gun, give me a reason why not to use the highest base DPS weapon of each of the kinds of weapons?

There isn't one now.

[Alphafox]

Am I the only one that doesn't mind Serration and Hornet Strike because I can use weapons I unlocked earlier at higher levels? Because the way I see it, removing Serration/Hornet/Multishot increases Mod Diversity at the cost of Gun Diversity. If I cannot increase the base damage of my gun, give me a reason why not to use the highest base DPS weapon of each of the kinds of weapons?

Why not add Serration, Hornet Strike,Point Blank and Point Strike directly to the weapons? Seriously who doesn't use them!? Make the gun base damage increase each time you level your weapon.

[Vastaren]

I don't feel that removing them outright would be a solution.

• Too many people will have invested their time and effort into a legitimate gameplay feature, and while I agree it'd make a change, it seems a drastic step to take without looking at alternatives;
• Where do we draw the line? Do we then remove Speed Trigger since it also (indirectly) contributes to DPS? Streamline and Flow? Mods are purely numerical - taking away options to augment certain stats in the current modding and gearing system isn't a safe way to address concerns without considering every other mod and the relevance of their stats too.

I would suggest simply toning the modifiers down. We don't need a +165% damage mod in the system. As much as I hate myself for saying it, number-tweaking in this instance to lower the overwhelming effectiveness of Serration such that players would actually have to ask themselves whether putting in, say, Fast Hands instead of Serration would justify the DPR loss. The idea of those mods not having negative side effects isn't without merit either. But without a whole different perspective to modding and how it changes what really is a numbers game, I can't recommend outright removing them without further consideration.

 

Edit: Tenno'd with your suggestion about innate damage increase with level. Damnit, it's an idea I can get behind, but all the same, the mods could still exist, and I don't think I could ever treat them as a substitute though if we were to reconsider the bonuses on Serration and Hornet Strike.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Vastaren

[A5PECT]

Am I the only one that doesn't mind Serration and Hornet Strike because I can use weapons I unlocked earlier at higher levels? Because the way I see it, removing Serration/Hornet/Multishot increases Mod Diversity at the cost of Gun Diversity. If I cannot increase the base damage of my gun, give me a reason why not to use the highest base DPS weapon of each of the kinds of weapons?

 

I think when a player's only concern in itemization is DPS, it means something has gone very wrong in your game design process. That's a whole 'nother issue.

 

Serration/Point Blank/Hornet Strike doesn't even solve the problem you described. If rifle A deals 100 damage per shot, and rifle B deals 200 damage per shot, Serration will not change the fact that weapon A deals less damage than weapon B. This only changes if for some reason weapon B can not use the same mod that weapon A uses to increase its damage.

 

If Hornet Strike, Serration, and Point Blank were removed from the game, and all pistols, rifles, and shotguns had their base damage increased by 220%, 160%, and 90% respectively, all of your weapons would be no less poweful than they are now. The only thing that would change is the number of different viable builds you could use on those weapons (spoiler: that number would go up).

 

Before anyone starts, note that I said viable builds, not optimal builds.

Edited August 12, 2014 by A5PECT

[(PSN)Twenty7Talonz]

Serration and multishot I understand but why redirection and vitality?

I'm just going to say that I have every frame and the only I put redirection on is Mag... and I don't use vitality on her. So yeah.

[Arabaxus]

I think when a player's only concern in itemization is DPS, it means something has gone very wrong in your game design process. That's a whole 'nother issue.

 

Serration/Point Blank/Hornet Strike doesn't even solve the problem you described. If rifle A deals 100 damage per shot, and rifle B deals 200 damage per shot, Serration will not change the fact that weapon A deals less damage than weapon B. This only changes if for some reason weapon B can not use the same mod that weapon A uses to increase its damage.

 

If Hornet Strike, Serration, and Point Blank were removed from the game, and all pistols, rifles, and shotguns had their base damage increased by 220%, 160%, and 90% respectively, all of your weapons would be no less poweful than they are now. The only thing that would change is the number of different viable builds you could use on those weapons (spoiler: that number would go up).

 

Before anyone starts, note that I said viable builds, not optimal builds.

 

I mean if a weapon has base 100 DPS versus another with base 300 DPS, and 300 DPS is viable for, taking a random example, level 30 enemies. With Serration I can put it onto my 100 DPS weapon and still use it in level 30 zones, with current +160% giving it 260 DPS, while not skipping much time investment from DE's F2P business model since I have to rank the mod up. 

 

I don't have to necessarily use the 300 DPS weapon to viably beat said zone. 

 

It's like the difference between playing with a MK-1 Braton with Serration in a level 25-30 mission and playing one without Serration in 25-30. Because of Serration, it's still feasible if I wish to play with MK-1 Braton. This wouldn't be possible without it.

 

Given the current mod situation, every rifle has 2 "required" mods, Split Chamber and Serration, and pistols 3, Hornet Strike, Lethal Torrent, and Barrel Diffusion. Given 8 weapon mods, and there are about 35 unique rifle mods, you have roughly 33 other mods to choose from for six different slots. 

 

33! / (6! (33 - 6)!)

 

That means even with those 2 slots taken up, you have at least 1107586 unique combinations of mods to choose from. 

 

With Pistols, 31 unique mods other than said 3 "required" mods,

 

31! / (5! (31 - 5)!) 

 

There are about 169911 unique combinations to select from. 

 

However, the issue of every build being the same, aside from the 3 "required" mods, seems to be either an issue with the other mods being useless (see Ammo Drum, Pistol Gambit, Hollow Point, etc.) or with the community themselves opting for the most "powerful" builds.

So no, I think the issue is with the other mods or with the players themselves making a decision. 

Edited August 12, 2014 by Arabaxus

[Alphafox]

I mean if a weapon has base 100 DPS versus another with base 300 DPS, and 300 DPS is viable for, taking a random example, level 30 enemies. With Serration I can put it onto my 100 DPS weapon and still use it in level 30 zones, with current +160% giving it 260 DPS, while not skipping much time investment from DE's F2P business model since I have to rank the mod up. 

 

I don't have to necessarily use the 300 DPS weapon to viably beat said zone. 

 

It's like the difference between playing with a MK-1 Braton with Serration in a level 25-30 mission and playing one without Serration in 25-30. Because of Serration, it's still feasible if I wish to play with MK-1 Braton. This wouldn't be possible without it.

Make the damage somewhat adjustable then. Make the damage you deal scale with conclave rating( or add a decent scaling system). There is many solution to that.

[GunBladeSlash]

hoping the new focus system changes this a bit and adds some diversity