Why Picking Loki Was A Big Mistake

[G3rman]

They didn't make Loki or any of the other starter frames 'starter' frames because they have basic stats, so buffing/debuffing isn't the issue. They were made to have a variety in classes initially offered.

 

The OP just isn't suited for Loki, it's a very effective class when used properly. I started with him, and he is still one of my favorites.

[Flunky]

if i see a loki i assume he's a moron 12 year old. if you use the decoy properly i will elevate you to 15 year old (but still a moron)

[flunkymomo]

ash is the sophistcated gentlemans "Stealth" class. if i see an ash I immediately think to my self, there is a brandy drinking, cigar smoking, bathrobe wearing SIR.

[BigBadHunkyDaddy]

if i see a loki i assume he's a moron 12 year old. if you use the decoy properly i will elevate you to 15 year old (but still a moron)

 

And maturity just left this thread, ladies and gentlemen!

 

 

They didn't make Loki or any of the other starter frames 'starter' frames because they have basic stats, so buffing/debuffing isn't the issue. They were made to have a variety in classes initially offered.

 

The OP just isn't suited for Loki, it's a very effective class when used properly. I started with him, and he is still one of my favorites.

 

This. I'm so tired of people saying "It's ok that Loki is weak, because he's a starter frame." No he's not. Honestly, seeing SO many people complain about how weak Loki is, makes me feel, that that flavor text saying that Loki is well suited for advanced player, might actually be closer to truth than might seem...

[flunkymomo]

This. I'm so tired of people saying "It's ok that Loki is weak, because he's a starter frame." No he's not. Honestly, seeing SO many people complain about how weak Loki is, makes me feel, that that flavor text saying that Loki is well suited for advanced player, might actually be closer to truth than might seem...

ah, the ever present "if something is bad it must somehow, in some strange way, actually be good" school of thinking. that's really subversive stuff my man. did you know that 9/11 was actually NOT an inside job?

Edited April 15, 2013 by flunkymomo

[holdenagincourt]

I can already tell this will be one of those things that will never die. Loki is great, doesn't need to be buffed, time for me to move on and never post in one of these threads again.

[BigBadHunkyDaddy]

ah, the ever present "if something is bad it must somehow, in some strange way, actually be good" school of thinking. that's really subversive stuff my man. did you know that 9/11 was actually NOT an inside job?

 

But Loki isn't bad, so your witty post doesn't work, sorry about that.

[Unibot]

Like someone in this thread said

 

Invisibility gives 100% crit chance, however crit DMG mods currently do not work while stealthed by invisibility due to a client glitch and the DE staff team is working to rectify said glitch. So atm using melee crit dmg mods only work outside of stealth also you could just use crit chance mods to up past 100% crit chance from invisibility to gain red crits for more dmg.

 

Also you have to remember Loki is a starter frame, you're asking them to buff a starting class lul.

 

Invisibility doesn't give you 100% crit. It just makes you deal x2 damage with melee. Yes its shown as yellow, but its not crit. Crits however still occur in invisibility and are shown in red.

Crit damage mods affect crits, they are yellow w/o invisibility and red in invisibility. Chance of crits happening is low even with +% crit chance mods(+30%), so while they affect melee damage with and without invisibility they do so by a very small amount.

Someone needs to delete this bs from wiki where it say invis grats 100% crit chance, so people won't be fooled.

 

Also to those who say that you need to place your decoy in hard to reach places where enemy still can see at, but won't hit it - I dare you to tell such places locations.

BECAUSE I placed a decoy on a crate and while infested could see it - they ignored it. I am not speaking of greeneer and corpus who can shoot it no matter where you place it. So yes, share your great secret of placing loki decoy - so it can be usefull on higher lvl mobs - I dare you.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Unibot

[Blatantfool]

ah, the ever present "if something is bad it must somehow, in some strange way, actually be good" school of thinking. that's really subversive stuff my man. did you know that 9/11 was actually NOT an inside job?

 

 If you actually found a way to be bad at Loki you need to get better at the game.

 

 Loki is easily in the top three as far as potential damage output and he has the fastest movement and escape tools in the game.

 

 

 Other people here will lie at you, saying 'He is for advanced players!!!!!'. He really isn't. His abilities are easy to use and effective at every level. If you are sucking at him it is because you suck. Even a Chimp could play a good Loki.

[Arsonide]

Since Saryn's moult is now permanent until destroyed, Loki's decoy needs to be invincible but time limited.

 

This would differentiate the skills, and fix Loki's utility in high level content. Two birds with one stone.

[SjharQa]

hello folks, i don't know if it has been said but radial disarm on infested is not that bad : it just insta kill all the dogs. You can't really say it's useless.

 

On the other hand i'm agree about the fact that it need a boost or a drastic change.

 

Got Loki(30) Ash(30) Frost(29) Saryn(11) and i can say without a doubt that playing with loki is the funnier(funniest?)

 

Not to mention it's the faster warframe

[Tulzscha]

I think Loki is made of win. Go invisible and you can slice and dice bosses really fast (I have a lvl 11 supercharged Fang with ice, crit damage and attack speed mods). You also need to aim the Decoy properly to take full advantage of it - it shows its full potential in infested defense missions where enemies are distracted by a hologram on top of a box and you can pick them off at your own leisure.

[flunkymomo]

he's just the frame for advanced players, that's all. you need a bit of skill to abuse targetting and pathfinding when placing decoys and it also takes a little noggin power to be invisible forever during which you take no damage. if you can't handle such mentally demanding tasks maybe you should go play rhino who is invulnerable to damage and just a walk in the park to play.

[Flunky]

loki is not just made of Win, but fully Epic Win, according to these reports. i must conclude that anyone not enjoying invisibly pwning a b***h @$$ monster tis but a fool, as shakespeare said. to any loki haters: Sod Off, this loki will be waiting in the shadows for you...

[Scyfle]

If you dislike Loki, then he is simply not suited for you.

[flunkymomo]

If you dislike Loki, then he is simply not suited for you.

Wise.

[GhostlightX]

If you honestly think Loki is bad you might want to find another game. His utility is fantastic

I think the OP's problem, and one I somewhat share, is that his utility may be fantastic, but you don't really need utility in this game. Yeah you can trick the enemies, and manipulate them and do other cool stuff, but there is no need, when others can just blow them away en masse. Awesome damage output is better in most cases.

Edited April 15, 2013 by GhostlightX

[Yanniboi]

Words such as "dislike", "hate" or "boring" were not mentioned in my post, not even once - don't twist my words! In fact I said that he is very fun to play, but maybe his gameplay mechanics don't really work* (at least for me). I also added that I've been playing this game for 2 weeks and I only recently understood most of the mechanics behind it. I have to admit that I haven't sacrificed my life on this game and I'm not pretending to be the best Loki, that is why I made the post, to see what other people think.

 

I'm very interested in seeing how other people play Loki and maybe yes I'm not good with him because I'm not an "advanced" player. That is why I want to hear other people's opinion regarding the trickster. I'm trying to max out Streamline (so Invisibility and Decoy is cheaper) and Fury and hopefully one day I'll get the artifact that regenerates your energy every 2 seconds. If someone could recommend some good MODs and weapons for him I'd appreciate it.

 

 

I think the OP's problem, and one I somewhat share, is that his utility may be fantastic, but you don't really need utility in this game. Yeah you can trick the enemies, and manipulate them and do other cool stuff, but there is no need, when others can just blow them away en masse. Awesome damage output is better in most cases.

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

 

To those people hating, this is a discussion forum, where people express themselves and have discussions, same way your girlfriend might say that you're S#&$ in bed. Maybe he is indeed for "advanced" players and still that makes my pick a "big mistake", doesn't it (?). 

 

Thanks to everyone for the replies - good or bad - and sharing your opinion. 

 

*By saying gameplay mechanics I mean that his ulti is very situtational. You place your Decoy on top of a box or a hard to reach location, you stealth, go inside the mob use your ulti to force the enemies to melee your (unreachable) Decoy and then you start slashing. 175 Energy (in the worst case) to kill a mob of enemies. If his ulti affected bosses I would sort of understand.

 

EDIT: So when he's invisible is it +100% crit chance, or just +% extra damage? Some people say it's crit chance others say it's extra damage. Which one is it and does any MOD affect it?

Edited April 15, 2013 by Yanniboi

[Alcatraz968]

Um, as a Excalibur player. Even i know you just don't understand the frame. This game is well balanced with frame comparison and starter Frames. In fact,i would go out of a limb here and say the stater frames are better then most frames if you can classify which is better and worse.

[Blatantfool]

I think the OP's problem, and one I somewhat share, is that his utility may be fantastic, but you don't really need utility in this game. Yeah you can trick the enemies, and manipulate them and do other cool stuff, but there is no need, when others can just blow them away en masse. Awesome damage output is better in most cases.

 

 This is wrong. I'll put it this way 

 

 High Damage just plain stops being good against enemies.

 

 Take Ember's World on Fire. Her 4. It will melt enemies all the way up to around level 40. That is pretty swell. But we both know level 40 isn't as strong as they come. Eventually that high damage is less useful because it doesn't have anything added to it. It doesn't stun. It doesn't slow consistently  It is just damage and it isn't even enough damage to take the enemy out.

 

 Meanwhile Loki's 4 acts the same way against all enemies at any level. It is a utility skill, it has no damage to trail off. It is meant to disable enemies and it does exactly that.

 

 

 High damage skills trail off. Utility skills don't tend to.

 

 You know why Mag's 4 is considered so good? Because it is both high damage AND high in utility. It is an enormous AoE stun that rips a chunk of health out. Even after the damage starts to fail to kill enemies it is still useful for disabling a large cluster of enemies.

 

 Utility is king in the land of the high leveled mobs.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Blatantfool

[Astral_Waffle]

 

 

 Utility is king in the land of the high leveled mobs.

This guy is right. It may seem like damage outclasses your utility, but it's only like that at lower levels. If you are cool always sticking to easy content, then yeah you will want to play a damage oriented frame. However, playing defense missions (which are currently the biggest challenge offered) at waves higher than 10 or 15, having a good Loki player or Nyx player completely changes your teams capabilities. That one player alone is capable of doubling or tripling how far your team would be able to progress had you been playing yet another damage oriented frame.

[Eric1738]

 

EDIT: So when he's invisible is it +100% crit chance, or just +% extra damage? Some people say it's crit chance others say it's extra damage. Which one is it and does any MOD affect it?

crit mods dont affect the no-crit damage during invis... so if u r willing to call it crit, it's ok, but i'd rather consider it as bonus damage. basically invisbility gives u 150% normal attack damage(so it looks like a crit), and 200% charged attack damage.

however, as some might have mentioned, u can further crit upon this, resulting "double" crit. the damage will be displayed in red. crit mods will affect this part.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Eric1738

[Paptimus]

Get the Furax

Get a Maxed level Charge damage% mod

Get a maxed level charge time mod

Go Invis

Murder everything(specially bosses)

Edited April 15, 2013 by Paptimus

[Yanniboi]

Thanks guys, Eric and Paptimus. I'll keep what you said in mind.

[fuiseh]

I find this thread very interesting. I'm a strun loki player myself, in fact hes my only frame(banshee farming). I too find myself somewhat conflicted when it comes to loki's skills(only maxed decoy and invis so far). Granted I'm only playing up to level 30 maps so I'm not too experienced. Still, I'll explain.

Decoy and invis are of course awesome skills in my book, for both survival and killing purposes. Switch teleport and radial disarm is extremely useful in certain situations, but thats it. What I'm conflicted about is that while I can't deny that loki's skills have great potential for utility, the situations that require that utility to come into play never really arise albeit rarely for me. Allow me to elaborate.

Decoy to distract enemies is fine, plenty of times for that. But how often is it that one can actually find that supposed sweet spot at that moment when enemies are descending upon him to plant a wonderful strategic decoy? Simply putting it on a box doesn't always work for me, either they start running around making me chase them to kill or they just simply ignore it and come over anyway. Not much to say about invis, its great in pinches, boss fights and all that. Extra damage for melee, but not critting is something I never knew before this thread though.

Switch teleport, I get baffled by this skill. I can see where its useful, swapping into a group of enemies to take them all out, decoy blinking, swapping out(rarely in time) for teammate dying, swapping elites for others to focus fire etc. Radial disarm, I use pretty much when I don't wanna be overwhelmed by projectiles and infested, but thats it.

My problem is, there doesn't seem to be much offensively end result wise that I can't achieve already in a little more time without switch tele and radial disarm. Teammates can easily snipe/gundown/aoe enemies when I feel the need to, say, maybe radial disarm a large wave to make life a little easier. With elites theres nothing proper movement and shooting won't do already. Why do so when I can save up my energy for decoys and invis? I feel like those are the only two skills that I find justified to use. Solo is a totally different of course.

I'd love to get your feedback on this. How/when does one properly utilise switch teleport/radial disarm on a constant basis?