Reward Us For Advance In Mastery Rank

[TokenAznGuy]

They need a way for non-pay players to get slots, period

 

4 warframe slots isn't enough, 8-10 weapon slots is barely enough so long as you always sacrifice the worse of 2 similiar weapons

 

No, they don't.

4 warframe slots is plenty.

The starter weapon slots is easily enough.

You don't need: 8 different warframes, 3 different rifles, 3 different pistols and 3 different melee weapons.

You want:  8 different warframes, 3 different rifles, 3 different pistols and 3 different melee weapons.

The difference is huge.

On the other hand, the devs need revenue to keep this game going.

 

One is need, other is greed.

Why should your greed outweigh the developers' need?

I seriously don't understand where all this undeserved entitlement is coming from.

[MaximumSquid]

It has nothing to do with any of your points of arguement

 

If you want to play the money card, building up incentive and a long term emotional attachment with the player will geneate far more money than squelching them early on

 

There have already been several testimonials of this on the forum and I'll see if I can dig you up a good one

Edited April 15, 2013 by MaximumSquid

[MaximumSquid]

Yeah here we go:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/27881-the-main-reason-i-wont-play-warframe-long-term/?p=254118

 

It's driving people away. . .

I'm hoping you'd have enough business sense to understand why this is horrible

Edited April 15, 2013 by MaximumSquid

[Thirdstar]

Yeah here we go:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/27881-the-main-reason-i-wont-play-warframe-long-term/?p=254118

 

It's driving people away. . .

I'm hoping you'd have enough business sense to understand why this is horrible

 

I see two people who agree with your point of view and dozens who don't, in that thread. I hope you have enough business sense to see why having EVERYTHING in the game available for free is an untenable business plan for an F2P game.

 

The people getting driven away by the cost of slots are unlikely to have ever 'bought' in anyway. It's a low, low threshold to buy a few slots as has been pointed out numerous times in this thread.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Thirdstar

[SymphNo9]

I don't understand why spending 5$ on extra slots is an issue. I don't see any threads or rebellious outrage on the streets about how imbalanced the price tag of 10$ is on the Paris, compared to how easy it actually is to craft it. Oh wait, is it because that is one of the many things you can get for free?

Edited April 15, 2013 by SymphNo9

[TokenAznGuy]

The guy is using League of Legends as an example.

Yes, you can get every champion in LoL for free, by playing the game.

Can you get skins for IP points?

No.

The only thing comparable to Warframes would be the color schemes, which are a ONE time buy.

Also, do you know how much time you need to invest in LoL to get every champion?

It's not even close to being on the same level as it takes to get a warframe.

 

You're just skewing everything to fit your argument.

I will use you as an example.

Please don't think this is a personal attack, because it isn't.

You've been playing this game, or at least been a member since March of this year, and have 299 posts as of the last one.

If you've spent almost as much time playing as you've spent posting, I'm guessing you've invested a decent amount of time into playing.

I don't know if maybe you bought one of those other deals, but I see that you're not even a 20 dollar founder.

In your case, you have contributed nothing, but have received alot of service and entertainment for absolutely nothing.

Yet you demand more.

You see where the problem lies?

Please don't say things like, "Oh, if I had more things for free, I would have more incentive to spend more money."; because we all know that's not true.

If you had even more things for free, there is LESS incentive to spend money because there's that much less to spend it on.

 

League of Legends literally has hundreds and hundreds of skins to buy.

This game has color schemes and a few frame/weapon slots.

Trying to compare the two isn't even reasonable.

Once you can buy skins on LoL for IP instead of RP, then maybe I'll consider comparing the two.

 

In my case, I have alot of my platinum left over.

There is nothing left I want to buy.

In fact, I will probably reset when the option goes in, just so I can start over and play through it again with some of my friends.

I invested into the game because I enjoyed playing it.

I bought a Founder's pack maybe... a week or two after I started playing it.

The devs are honest about when they make a mistake, and they're very vocal about what they're doing to fix them.

New patches are rolled out on a very frequent basis, and they're trying their hardest to keep up with our demands.

I think at one point, there was almost an update a day.

THAT gave me the incentive to invest.

[MaximumSquid]

"your point of view"

 

Proof you didn't read the right thing?

 

I can link dsifu's quote again if you like. . .

Edited April 15, 2013 by MaximumSquid

[Thirdstar]

"your point of view"

 

Proof you didn't read the right thing?

 

I can link dsifu's quote again if you like. . .

 

Here's something simple, because you're clearly confused. You say slots being only available for plat is a bad thing, I say it's not. We disagree.

 

You entire point of argument hinges on your and another poster's opinions. I have my own, differing ones. Why is this so hard to understand for you?

 

Because I can also pull quotes from across this forum that say slots for plat is perfectly fine.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Thirdstar

[MaximumSquid]

Also, and I woefully hope I doesn't come to this

 

There's a far greater arguement as to why you'd want to hang onto every customer. . . even hardcore non-pay users

 

It's a card I'm holding back on purpose because the amount of ignorance you'd have to be bleeding for this debate would reach levels of embarrassment

 

Edits: Looks like I coudln't reply fast enough. . . *sigh*

Edited April 15, 2013 by MaximumSquid

[Thirdstar]

It's a card I'm holding back on purpose because the amount of ignorance you'd have to be bleeding for this debate would reach levels of embarrassment

 

Your condescension has convinced me about your position. Well done.

[Tulzscha]

A credits and/or random mods prize incentive does sound nice.

[parkel]

I know I said +1 a million times, but let me throw my opinion inside here as well. 

 

First, calm down and ask yourselves this question: How long does it take for me to rank up one mastery rank? 

I took 122 hours just to rank myself up to rank 3. That's a hell of a lot of play time in TWO weeks. 

 

HOWEVER:

 

Let us take this 2 weeks for assumption. 

Assuming there are only 100 players playing Warframe as of now. 

40 are paying players who buy slots and rush Foundry items. 

 

75 platinum (lowest denomination) is USD$5. So let's assume that these 40 players rush Foundry items every 3 days, and buy one warframe and two weapon slots every 4 days. Each Foundry rush is (for assumption purposes) 25 platinum, while the slots (in total) is 32 platinum. 

 

This means that within 2 weeks, DE will be earning a total of $29.40. 

 

Let's also assume that Rank 0 to Rank 1 yields no slot rewards.

 

If each of the 100 players manage to reach rank 3 (taking my amount of time spent as a guess-timation), DE will effectively be "giving away" $960 worth of slots. 

 

From this angle, the free to play players are "at fault" for "freeloading" and causing DE to "lose money". 

 

However, from another angle, they are not losing money at all. Think about it - where does money come from in the first place? The players. If the developers are giving these slots out for free, how will they lose money? 

 

Thing is, they won't lose any money at all. To them, these free slots are just 1s and 0s in the system. 

 

This is just a thought, from me, trying to put myself at two completely different standpoints, and an attempt to make all the above users understand what the other is trying to get at. 

 

I'm perfectly fine with it no matter they implement the system or not. I'm neutral, even if (yes I admit), I DID say +1 a million times.

[MaximumSquid]

As you may have hinted at it's not a simple "divide and concur"

 

Since forum topics often come up again I will likely get another chance to re-issue that and other quotes I've accumlated

I'll be glad to pick it up with you at that time if need be

[SymphNo9]

...

I took 122 hours just to rank myself up to rank 3. That's a hell of a lot of play time in TWO weeks. 

 

 

I would dare to say, with a risk of a bash on my head, that you are a slowpoke :P

 

 

...

Thing is, they won't lose any money at all. To them, these free slots are just 1s and 0s in the system. 

 

...

 

On a more serious note; the slots might just mean some byte changes in their database, but everytime they give out a free..let us call them "concepts", they essential need to bring up a new concept to compensate for the potential loss of revenue from the other concept.

Now, I'm not saying the extra slots is the sole revenue for DE, which is just silly. But 5$ is not much, if you compare what you spend on useless stuff in RL. Also, keep in mind that everyone start with 50 plat.

[TokenAznGuy]

Also, and I woefully hope I doesn't come to this

 

There's a far greater arguement as to why you'd want to hang onto every customer. . . even hardcore non-pay users

 

It's a card I'm holding back on purpose because the amount of ignorance you'd have to be bleeding for this debate would reach levels of embarrassment

 

Edits: Looks like I coudln't reply fast enough. . . *sigh*

 

This kind of attitude is what ruins every discussion.

I'm done with you.

[parkel]

I would dare to say, with a risk of a bash on my head, that you are a slowpoke :P

 

 

 

On a more serious note; the slots might just mean some byte changes in their database, but everytime they give out a free..let us call them "concepts", they essential need to bring up a new concept to compensate for the potential loss of revenue from the other concept.

Now, I'm not saying the extra slots is the sole revenue for DE, which is just silly. But 5$ is not much, if you compare what you spend on useless stuff in RL. Also, keep in mind that everyone start with 50 plat.

 

As I said, there are two sides of the argument to this. 

What you said is true, yes, DE needs to make up for the "money out" to keep the balance. 

 

I agree $5 is not much. But for some people (a friend of mine especially), their parents simply do not allow them to spend any money on online games whatsoever. That's completely out of point, but yes, there are parents like that. They'd rather their children spend money on useless stuff IRL than on something virtual. So this part of the argument I do understand to some extent. 

 

This is also a little out of point, but I'm trying my best to purchase platinum without Steam. MOLPoints and Cherry Credits are my way to go (I don't have a personal credit card, and have no intention of using my Mum's) since 7-11 is literally just a block away from where I stay.

 

That's the sole reason why I +1-ed that post. Partly due to frustration from being unable to purchase slots as well. 

 

----------------------------

 

As for the mastery rank part, I took my Steam hours for reference, of which I would say 10% of the time I was alt-tabbed out of game and doing something else.

 

And for the record, before I even knew there were Warframe blueprints, and the fact that I needed to level up my items  in order to increase mastery rank, I was running around with level 30 equipment and a level 30 Volt clearing planet after planet. And thus, the mastery stuck at rank 2 for a really long time before I got my Rhino. 

[LegendairyWarframe]

I see two people who agree with your point of view and dozens who don't, in that thread. I hope you have enough business sense to see why having EVERYTHING in the game available for free is an untenable business plan for an F2P game.

 

The people getting driven away by the cost of slots are unlikely to have ever 'bought' in anyway. It's a low, low threshold to buy a few slots as has been pointed out numerous times in this thread.

 

Not just two, even with the down voting, the OP still had 10 up vote;

 

And for those who might not spend, how do you know they might not bring their friend to spend, cause they had a good experience?

 

And if they won't spend, then not giving and giving them slots, they won't spend, but atleast giving them slots gives them good impression about this game, about the Devs; which spreads the good reputation about this game.

 

Just because you worried about some body not might not spend, you cut them off, at the same time you cut their friends off, who might potentially spend money on this game.

 

Free to play is successful is not about forcing player to pay.

[Mak_Gohae]

Not just two, even with the down voting, the OP still had 10 up vote;

 

And for those who might not spend, how do you know they might not bring their friend to spend, cause they had a good experience?

 

And if they won't spend, then not giving and giving them slots, they won't spend, but atleast giving them slots gives them good impression about this game, about the Devs; which spreads the good reputation about this game.

 

Just because you worried about some body not might not spend, you cut them off, at the same time you cut their friends off, who might potentially spend money on this game.

 

Free to play is successful is not about forcing player to pay.

 

If one player finds it that he doesnt need to spend what do you think will be the first thing mentioned to the friend?

[Blatantfool]

If one player finds it that he doesnt need to spend what do you think will be the first thing mentioned to the friend?

 

 Mak here has a good point.

 

 Games that make sure to give you more then enough tools to never have to pay for gameplay prioritize skin sales hardcore.

 

 

 Lets build a theoretical situation here though. 

 

 Lets say every two mastery ranks you get a slot of your choice. Either one frame slot or a single weapon slot.

 

 Well, now you technically don't need to buy slots. Ever. I mean you could if you wanted to get your weapons list complete - sure. But it wouldn't be all that huge a deal.

 

 So how does DE monetize off you properly if you aren't in a situation where you NEED to buy slots?

 

 Skins. Frames. Weapons. Orokin items. Slots. Bundles.

 

 It doesn't technically change. Slots still have a usefulness as even getting a slot every two ranks you wouldn't well up enough slots to have it all. 

 

 And Orokin items will always remain a thing at this stage. Luckily they are much less necessary then they where. 

 

 Frames and Weapons, as far as buying is concerned, will always remain the option for the guy who refuses to wait. Bundles will be for the player willing to shell out a bit more for a package deal.

 

 And skins are by far the easiest and most agreeable way for Devs to ask players for money. If I see a skin I really like I WILL buy it. I do that in any games. Skins don't do anything but make me look a bit cooler and they are a good way to support a dev.

 

 

 All that said - this is just one guy talking with little business experience. I know what kind of monetization plans I prefer to see from Devs in games and that effects my understanding and opinion.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Blatantfool

[LegendairyWarframe]

If one player finds it that he doesnt need to spend what do you think will be the first thing mentioned to the friend?

Come and play this game, simple as that;

 

Further the the track, chance of spending money always increases, not decrease;

 

For some people who never spend, they will never spend, no matter how good or how bad you treat them.

 

It about those who might spend, and you want those to stay in your game, the longer they stay, they higher the chance they will spend, and get their friend to spend.

 

I have edited my OP, asking for merely half the required warframe slots and weapon slots at Rank 9, at current rate of rolling out warframes and weapons.

 

And trust me, even they roll out two more warframe and four new weapons, there is no way past rank 10.

 

Which means the further the game progress, the more slot is required, but cannot be obtained through Mastery rank, cause Mastery rank is basically soft capped.

 

And if a player have spend 200 hours on this game, felling in love with it, how likely they are going to abandon the account? Or not spending 5-10 to buy some more slots?

[DataShade]

Oh my god, I was like the fifth person to post and I said: in the third (I think?) Livestream, the devs said this has been suggested, it's on their wish-list for the future, but they literally CANNOT do this with the code in its current state, they would need to totally overhaul how they store character data in order to be able to program something like this.

 

 

How is this devolving into a flame war instead of being locked?