Every Warframe Should Be Able To Super Jump (Excalibur Should Get A Melee Boost Ability Instead)

[Sm0cker]

So, you want to make one of the best warframe better  ? If you want melee boost, lets nerf slash dash to march rhino charge (range and damage).

[Cpl_Facehugger]

His jump ability isn't about getting to high places, jump is about getting to places fast. Is a quick mobility move.

When do you need to get to places fast enough that the half second you get from superjumping vs wallrunning matters? I mean, even when you're under fire, a normal jump will work just fine to evade since enemies have trouble tracking airborne targets.

 

And how many people actually use superjump, at all? In my fifty hours of playing this game, I've never seen anyone superjump. Except myself, once, before I figured out wallrun.

[MJ12]

His jump ability isn't about getting to high places, jump is about getting to places fast. Is a quick mobility move.

 

What. I am literally dumbfounded at your inability to understand 'jump high = get to higher places'. Also, all Warframes have a quick mobility move. It's called 'sprinting' or 'chain dodging'... Excalibur's super jump at low-medium levels is actually slower than sprinting (and harder to upgrade, again, it's a Rare), and makes you more vulnerable than chain dodging.

 

It's only useful in niche situations (i.e. you get surrounded), and you have Slash Dash for that, which not only does the mobility thing, but also provides a second of invulnerability and deals significant damage.

 

If you're evaluating Superjump as an evasion move that costs energy instead of as a method of getting to high places it's even worse. This is not a comparison you'd like to make. It lets you get out of a bad situation, yes, but provides near-zero ability to change that situation to become advantageous.

 

So, you want to make one of the best warframe better  ? If you want melee boost, lets nerf slash dash to march rhino charge (range and damage).

 

Excalibur is only 'one of the best warframes' because tons of others have borderline unusable abilities. Ember had only 1 good ability for ages. Mag still only has 1 good ability and 1 usable one. Ash has 1 good ability and 1 usable one. etc etc.

 

Excalibur has 1 good ability (Slash Dash) and 2 usable ones (Javelin/Blind).

 

Statswise he's nothing special either.

[Sm0cker]

Excalibur is only 'one of the best warframes' because tons of others have borderline unusable abilities. Ember had only 1 good ability for ages. Mag still only has 1 good ability and 1 usable one. Ash has 1 good ability and 1 usable one. etc etc.

 

Excalibur has 1 good ability (Slash Dash) and 2 usable ones (Javelin/Blind).

This still makes him T1 warframe. Yes, he got average stats, but that not makes him worse than other frames, if not better.

[MJ12]

This still makes him T1 warframe. Yes, he got average stats, but that not makes him worse than other frames, if not better.

 

Assuming that just because other Warframes have useless powers too means we shouldn't give Excalibur a useful one instead of Super Jump (which is the second part of this thread) is kind of... missing the point?

 

It should be more 'all Warframes should have useful powers'.

[Sm0cker]

The point is, that other frames need rework of abilities asap. Excalibur can just slash dash things and wait a bit.

[Mak_Gohae]

When do you need to get to places fast enough that the half second you get from superjumping vs wallrunning matters? I mean, even when you're under fire, a normal jump will work just fine to evade since enemies have trouble tracking airborne targets.

 

And how many people actually use superjump, at all? In my fifty hours of playing this game, I've never seen anyone superjump. Except myself, once, before I figured out wallrun.

 

I melee with Ex mainly and i use super jump to cut the distance to get to the enemy when there aren't any walls or a straight path to them. Because as we ALL know..... walls aren't everywhere, right?

 

 

What. I am literally dumbfounded at your inability to understand 'jump high = get to higher places'.

 

Jump does NOT let you get to any place that any other warframes cannot get to. Jump lets you get up to places faster. 

 

 

Also, all Warframes have a quick mobility move. It's called 'sprinting' or 'chain dodging'... Excalibur's super jump at low-medium levels is actually slower than sprinting (and harder to upgrade, again, it's a Rare), and makes you more vulnerable than chain dodging.

 

It's only useful in niche situations (i.e. you get surrounded), and you have Slash Dash for that, which not only does the mobility thing, but also provides a second of invulnerability and deals significant damage.

 

If you're evaluating Superjump as an evasion move that costs energy instead of as a method of getting to high places it's even worse. This is not a comparison you'd like to make. It lets you get out of a bad situation, yes, but provides near-zero ability to change that situation to become advantageous.

 

 

Borth sprinting and rolling requires you to follow a path to the enemy while jump allows you to cut that path. So in an L shape section if the enemy are at the top point and you are at the bottom point you can jump directly at the enemy position.

 

 

Excalibur is only 'one of the best warframes' because tons of others have borderline unusable abilities. Ember had only 1 good ability for ages. Mag still only has 1 good ability and 1 usable one. Ash has 1 good ability and 1 usable one. etc etc.

 

Excalibur has 1 good ability (Slash Dash) and 2 usable ones (Javelin/Blind).

 

Statswise he's nothing special either.

 

Oh man ... and now you lost any and all credibility in this argument.

You just put yourself in THAT level of players.

If isnt doing damage.... whats' the point!

[MJ12]

Oh man ... and now you lost any and all credibility in this argument.
You just put yourself in THAT level of players.
If isnt doing damage.... whats' the point!

Your reading comprehension is incredible considering that I mentioned that Radial Blind and didn't go 'Radial Blind sucks because it doesn't do any damage'. But, of course, I guess you aren't capable of understanding that 'changing the situation' doesn't have to mean 'dealing damage'. Or maybe... you're making a blatant and easily visible strawman again.

The problem with Super Jump is that it doesn't do anything. Even at level 0, Switch Teleport, Invis, or Smokebomb do something weapons don't do. At lv0, Super Jump does something any Warframe, even Rhino, can do... but worse. This is not a power. It's also a Rare, which means it takes forever to upgrade to some worthwhile level.

It's literally only good for showing off 99% of the time, and in the 1% of the time it's useful it doesn't exactly trivialize the encounter or something. It's not even a specialist power. It's a bad specialist power.
 

The point is, that other frames need rework of abilities asap. Excalibur can just slash dash things and wait a bit.

 

That's not a very good point. Sometimes it may be easier to balance the character class closest to overall balance so you have a baseline.

 

And if you're tearing out Super Jump to give all other Warframes equivalent vertical mobility (as to allow for more complex levels, remove an extraneous ability which is limited by the current ability mechanics in Warframe, and so on) you're going to have to put something in that slot.

 

Yes it'd be ideal if all other Warframes had their abilities reworked at the same time. But taking things one step at a time is necessary to get things done.

Edited April 16, 2013 by MJ12

[Ferriwind]

I'm pretty sure most players will agree super jump is more or less useless compared to any other power.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Mak_Gohae, on 16 Apr 2013 - 4:26 PM, said:

I melee with Ex mainly and i use super jump to cut the distance to get to the enemy when there aren't any walls or a straight path to them. Because as we ALL know..... walls aren't everywhere, right?

And how often is that? How often is it that grineer are close enough that you can both leap to them with superjump, but far enough that you can't run/slide/normaljump/wallrun to within melee range of them just as easily? Practically never. The only maps that are actually wide open enough for this to be valid are some of the corpus outpost maps. And even then, not really because you can still close to within melee range in a matter of moments without superjump.

I mean, I guess I can see a use for superjump in that you can leap over the guardrails on the new grineer asteroid base catwalks, but even that's really situational.

[Mak_Gohae]

Your reading comprehension is incredible considering that I mentioned that Radial Blind and didn't go 'Radial Blind sucks because it doesn't do any damage'. But, of course, I guess you aren't capable of understanding that 'changing the situation' doesn't have to mean 'dealing damage'. Or maybe... you're making a blatant and easily visible strawman again.

 

 

You said Ember has ONLY one good ability, i read what you said.

You are THAT kind of player.

The problem with Super Jump is that it doesn't do anything. Even at level 0, Switch Teleport, Invis, or Smokebomb do something weapons don't do. At lv0, Super Jump does something any Warframe, even Rhino, can do... but worse. This is not a power. It's also a Rare, which means it takes forever to upgrade to some worthwhile level.

Level 0 abilities suck.... news at a 11.

Most abilities at lvl 0 suck! Invis lasts 2 seconds! I am leveling Trinity now her life leech thing was shorter than the cast time. I had to put a continuity mod ASAP.

Come on, man.

It's literally only good for showing off 99% of the time, and in the 1% of the time it's useful it doesn't exactly trivialize the encounter or something. It's not even a specialist power. It's a bad specialist power.

 

Some of you guys need more imagination. It's 10 energy......how are you NOT experimenting with something so cheap to use?

 

And how often is that? How often is it that grineer are close enough that you can both leap to them with superjump, but far enough that you can't run/slide/normaljump/wallrun to within melee range of them just as easily? Practically never. The only maps that are actually wide open enough for this to be valid are some of the corpus outpost maps. And even then, not really because you can still close to within melee range in a matter of moments without superjump.

I mean, I guess I can see a use for superjump in that you can leap over the guardrails on the new grineer asteroid base catwalks, but even that's really situational.

 

Guys... 3 Dimensions.

 

That bridge in the middle? You can jump to that.

 

 

That spot where the locker is? You can jump to that.

 

 

You can also wallrun up that side of that but you need to run there then run up. Guess what's faster?

 

 

That area where the white boxes are at? You can jump to that from where im at and im sure you can do it from the bottom too.

 

 

 

Just make believe you are a bird and the possibilities will come to you.

[MJ12]

Just make believe you are a bird and the possibilities will come to you.

 

The fact that you're pretending you're a bird would explain why every response you make to me seems to have been thought out by a birdbrain.

 

Now, to reply to everything else you said...

 

 

You said Ember has ONLY one good ability, i read what you said.

You are THAT kind of player.

 

Yes, because Overheat's damage resistance, last I checked, was marginal (and the problem is that it doesn't proof you against stagger nor does it proof you against energy drain, and it doesn't allow you to regen shields either.)

 

50% damage resistance is not "half as good as Rhino Skin". It's "Significantly less useful compared to Rhino skin" and the fact that the rest of the DR was sacrificed for some point-blank damage makes it not very good. "THAT kind of player"? I'm sorry, am I not allowed to say powers are weak or bad because they're... weak or bad?

 

I'm sorry. You're making no sense. Because I said one ability that... actually does damage... is bad, this means I only care about abilities that do damage? I'd accuse you of making a non sequitur, but I'm not sure if you even understand what you're trying to argue, instead of just half-assedly rambling about anything, focusing on single points without even bothering to understand the big picture because you're incapable of comprehending that someone may dislike certain powers regardless of whether they appreciate powers that do damage or not.

 

Just because I don't think your precious ~super jump~ is a good power doesn't mean I can't appreciate non-damaging powers.

 

 

 

Level 0 abilities suck.... news at a 11.

Most abilities at lvl 0 suck! Invis lasts 2 seconds! I am leveling Trinity now her life leech thing was shorter than the cast time. I had to put a continuity mod ASAP.

Come on, man.

 

Life Leech was perfectly usable at level 0. Invis was perfectly usable at level 0. Sure, it didn't last very long but "2 seconds" (it's actually more like 4) is plenty of time to get a critical double-damage charged melee off, get out, regenerate some of your shields, and reengage from an advantageous position.

 

Turns out that abilities which are good are still at least usable at level 0. You know what abilities suck at lv0? BAD ONES. So by going "Super Jump sucks because it's lv0" concedes the point. It's a bad ability. Thank you.

 

 

Some of you guys need more imagination. It's 10 energy......how are you NOT experimenting with something so cheap to use?

 

I did experiment with it plenty. My conclusion is still the same. It's not just a specialist niche power. It's a bad specialist niche power, which means it's double bad. It's doubleplusungood. It's awful.

 

I could jump really high twice... or I could use Slash Dash, which does the same thing (gets me closer to the enemy) and does damage as well, while providing temporary invulnerability.

 

Oh, and as a bonus? Slash Dash is a common. Super Jump is a rare. By the time I finish upgrading Super Jump to usefulness Slash Dash is going to be maxed out.

 

"But there are some places where enemies spawn above you!"

 

Okay so 1% of the time Super Jump is 'useful'. Except that most of the time the elevated firing positions don't have much in the way of cover and don't cover the stairs, which means that the only thing Slash Dash does is save time, it doesn't even make you less vulnerable or more combat-effective.

Edited April 16, 2013 by MJ12

[Quetzhal]

I melee with Ex mainly and i use super jump to cut the distance to get to the enemy when there aren't any walls or a straight path to them. Because as we ALL know..... walls aren't everywhere, right?

It doesn't have to be a wall. It can be a box, a tiny little pole, a cylinder, the side of a staircase, a pillar, any object in the game that's roughly your character's height. You can wall launch off of nearly anything in the game, which is by far a much better way to close distances with enemies because of how quickly it flings you forward to close horizontal distance (it makes a good bit of vertical distance, too).

[Mak_Gohae]

It doesn't have to be a wall. It can be a box, a tiny little pole, a cylinder, the side of a staircase, a pillar, any object in the game that's roughly your character's height. You can wall launch off of nearly anything in the game, which is by far a much better way to close distances with enemies because of how quickly it flings you forward to close horizontal distance (it makes a good bit of vertical distance, too).

 

True, but remember that Ex is the easy frame for beginners.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Guys... 3 Dimensions.

 

 

Just make believe you are a bird and the possibilities will come to you.

Sure. But the question is why? What do you gain by jumping to those points rather than running up to them? Half a second? One second, at best? 

[Zeful]

Sure. But the question is why? What do you gain by jumping to those points rather than running up to them? Half a second? One second, at best? 

Well, running to the lockers in the second image in an Ex is something like 3 1/2 seconds. But the jump is like a 1/4 second charge up, and then you're in the air for like 1 or 1 1/2 second at 0, so it's saved like 1 3/4 seconds.

 

Oh wow, so much time saved. In the time it would take me to actually manage to select Super Jump, I've already passed the area I wanted to jump from, because sprinting.

[Mak_Gohae]

Sure. But the question is why? What do you gain by jumping to those points rather than running up to them? Half a second? One second, at best? 

 

 

Well, running to the lockers in the second image in an Ex is something like 3 1/2 seconds. But the jump is like a 1/4 second charge up, and then you're in the air for like 1 or 1 1/2 second at 0, so it's saved like 1 3/4 seconds.

 

Oh wow, so much time saved. In the time it would take me to actually manage to select Super Jump, I've already passed the area I wanted to jump from, because sprinting.

 

Lol! You get there faster.... but not THAT fast! Complete waste of 10 energy....

[Babalenong]

totally agree with op, i hardly use superjump because i always save my energy for spamming slash dash, if superjump if available on every frame and dont consume energy (stamina consume pls), i would jump around like an idiot