Xtorma Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 You always have the option of buying the weapon over again and ranking it up again. The intent of Mastery is to have you master all the frames and all the weapons. Sometimes you get suprised by a weapon after you give it some time and rank it up a bit. What you didn't think you would like can end up being a new favorite. Currently, you really only need to get to Mastery level 4 or so to unlock all the weapons and frames. This is pretty easy to do with very few different weapons/frames being ranked. -Dub If the intent of mastery is as you say, then why can you level the same weapon over and over. Doesn't that defeat the whole reason why it's there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inez Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 If a player finds a favorite warframe and weapons, he is punished for using those weapons if they hit level 30 because he is not upgrading his mastery rank. The game literally punishes you for using weapons that you enjoy. I had friends grind out weapons that they hated....just to get their mastery higher. How to fix this so the game doesn't punish you for using weapons that you actually enjoy? Make mastery rank go up strictly by gaining XP. That way people will try weapons because they want to try them....not be forced to use weapons that they may not like. If you already have the weapons you love, why do you need mastery rank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neKroMancer Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Resetting frame and weapon probably going to return them to 'unrank' again. However, with the removal of selling/rebuying glitch, I don't think resetting will increase mastery rank since frame/weapon could be 'reset' more than one time. Perhaps it's going to be gaining mastery rank in a slower rate in subsequent resets (0.75 in first reset, 0.5 in second reset, etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxCromatxX Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Okay so that means we shouldn't make suggestions to make sure it's polished when it's out of beta? I didn't mean it that way at all. I was just trying to lighten up the mood, sorry if it came out wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fujimura Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 If a player finds a favorite warframe and weapons, he is punished for using those weapons if they hit level 30 because he is not upgrading his mastery rank. The game literally punishes you for using weapons that you enjoy. I had friends grind out weapons that they hated....just to get their mastery higher. How to fix this so the game doesn't punish you for using weapons that you actually enjoy? Make mastery rank go up strictly by gaining XP. That way people will try weapons because they want to try them....not be forced to use weapons that they may not like. Just add a paragon or prestige system in. hit rank 30 then go back to rank1 relevel to rank 30 as prestige1 and then once you get to prestige1 rank30 go back to rank1 in prestige2 etc. I imagine they will do this as the solution. In fact i think they breifly mentioned it in their youtube thing about maybe doing it so the prestige ranks let you change polarity slots on weapons so you can further mod it to your liking :x just looked up above and saw someone say basically the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardddd Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 The game is already too easy ... In that regard I feel that there should be some hard mode difficulty type to spice things up (: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl_Facehugger Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 No, they fixed that exploit a long time ago. Didn't they only make it so that additional levels acquired in this manner don't count towards your global player level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoRDxDeMoN Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Didn't they only make it so that additional levels acquired in this manner don't count towards your global player level? Well, yes, but that was the exploit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbgunsling Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 "Waah, I can't use my Loki to mass level up my mastery"= Polishing the game. you people are really bad at putting two and two together. Its becoming real easy to determine which are suggestions and which are people complaining that the game doesn't suit them as an individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTenthDoc Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 (edited) You always have the option of buying the weapon over again and ranking it up again. The intent of Mastery is to have you master all the frames and all the weapons. Sometimes you get suprised by a weapon after you give it some time and rank it up a bit. What you didn't think you would like can end up being a new favorite. Currently, you really only need to get to Mastery level 4 or so to unlock all the weapons and frames. This is pretty easy to do with very few different weapons/frames being ranked. -Dub Just a sidenote, in order to reach mastery level 4 the wiki says you need two different warframes at 25 and 10 (!) weapons to max rank. That's not really a few. I will say it would be nice to divert xp from your level 30 weapons to lower leveled ones...but I don't think that'll ever happen. Edited April 16, 2013 by TheTenthDoc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerensiniac Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 (edited) Wouldn't say punishes you for having fun, would say it more rewards you for exploring the game. Take any mmorpg and try to figure out a system that tells you to play warrior in order to level your mage.This is pretty much what we are having in warframe right now. You want better weapons? Sorry it unlocks only on higher mastery levels. Time to switch frame/weapon/pet/style/everything. Gl hf.I agree with the OP that the mastery system is ridiculous. Especially if i consider that inventory slots are limited.So not only are you forced to play stuff you do not want to play, but you are also screwed twice over cause you cant keep everything unless you pay up for more slots.Considering everything together: This system VERY far from being user friendly. "Waah, I can't use my Loki to mass level up my mastery"= Polishing the game. you people are really bad at putting two and two together. Its becoming real easy to determine which are suggestions and which are people complaining that the game doesn't suit them as an individual. All suggestions are rooted in the fact that you as an individual would prefer something differently. Please dont try to twist this into an ad hominem. Everything you perceive as lacking has one constant in it: yourself. Just like the joke about failed relationships says. Edited April 16, 2013 by Aerensiniac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancingfirefly Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Mastery ratings are cookies. They do absolutely nothing for you. They're slightly filling past rank 4, but that's it. They serve no other purpose than to feel good about yourself. But people like cookies. They want an easier method to get cookies, even when they're told that to get cookies they have to be good and follow the rules to get those cookies. Mastery rating cookies are given when people explore the many options of the game. It's human nature to want something even when others say you can't have it unless you follow the rules. That's why so many hands wind up in cookie jars when they're not supposed to be there. But mastery rating is just fine as is, as a cookie. There's nothing wrong with wanting an easy cookie, but you can't always expect to get an easy cookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoRDxDeMoN Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 But people like cookies. I don't like cookies. Sugar rots your body from the inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancingfirefly Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I don't like cookies. Sugar rots your body from the inside. Well then you are very fortunate, because mastery rating cookies are sugar free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoRDxDeMoN Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Well then you are very fortunate, because mastery rating cookies are sugar free. Healthy and delicious? Can't say no to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhd995 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Healthy and delicious? Can't say no to that. I certainly can't. Anyway, I do agree that the mastery is currently sort of moot other than to unlock some newer weapons. The thing is that it doesn't reflect a player's gear or rank, or experience for that matter. Somebody who is at level 3 could have played the same amount of time as somebody with level 8. The only difference is that the latter is just more acquinted with a larger variety of firearms and weapons (which in a way IS experience, but you get my point. I am thinking that instead, mastery should reflect the player's performance more and that it becomes a fluctuating thing. Other than doing the usual stuff, playing nice (reviving, staying close to your squad, assists, support powers, etc) should give you additional points so that the good guys are generally rated higher than those who just kill everything. That way you are, in a sense, trying to become a Tenno elite through unity and expertise. It also tells you a lot more about someone when you see their levels. Anyway, just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mast3rr Posted April 16, 2013 Author Share Posted April 16, 2013 I'll talk about a game that is often mentioned when some web site reviews Warframe: Mass Effect 3, specifically the multiplayer section. Now, I played hundreds of hours just in the multiplayer without counting the single player campaign.One day they decided to introduce challenges. So to get enough challenge points you had to try different weapons. I did it for a while, got a decent number of challenge points. However after a bit I thought, "I keep having to use these weapons that are total crap and that is killing the fun of the game for me."It feels good when you can get a decent result with (what you could consider) a crap weapon, but after a while it can get tiring. So I decided to disregard the challenges. On top of that, my N7 rank doesn't increase. Why? Because I play only Gold and Platinum these days and I don't really want to play those with a level 1 character, as the N7 rank only increases when your individual characters' ranks increase. And I don't want to play bronze or silver to relevel them. So here I pointed out a few flaws in the current game design in terms of levelling just by showing you what another game did. Their solution to reset frame ranks will do the same thing as well, yeah ok, you can increase your mastery ranks, but if I want to play on some harder planets it will suck.On the other hand challenges gave people a reason to do things, so I wouldn't want the devs to take them off the game, but I don't want to be forced to play them either. There just has to be some other way to allow your mastery to progress. Maybe keep earning exp so that it does progress even though frames and weapons don't. Put in challenges so if people WANT to master everything they get another sense of progression, but it's in addition.And some reward for reaching max level in something would be good too. I'll talk about a game that is often mentioned when some web site reviews Warframe: Mass Effect 3, specifically the multiplayer section. Now, I played hundreds of hours just in the multiplayer without counting the single player campaign.One day they decided to introduce challenges. So to get enough challenge points you had to try different weapons. I did it for a while, got a decent number of challenge points. However after a bit I thought, "I keep having to use these weapons that are total crap and that is killing the fun of the game for me."It feels good when you can get a decent result with (what you could consider) a crap weapon, but after a while it can get tiring. So I decided to disregard the challenges. On top of that, my N7 rank doesn't increase. Why? Because I play only Gold and Platinum these days and I don't really want to play those with a level 1 character, as the N7 rank only increases when your individual characters' ranks increase. And I don't want to play bronze or silver to relevel them. So here I pointed out a few flaws in the current game design in terms of levelling just by showing you what another game did. Their solution to reset frame ranks will do the same thing as well, yeah ok, you can increase your mastery ranks, but if I want to play on some harder planets it will suck.On the other hand challenges gave people a reason to do things, so I wouldn't want the devs to take them off the game, but I don't want to be forced to play them either. There just has to be some other way to allow your mastery to progress. Maybe keep earning exp so that it does progress even though frames and weapons don't. Put in challenges so if people WANT to master everything they get another sense of progression, but it's in addition.And some reward for reaching max level in something would be good too. i like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mast3rr Posted April 16, 2013 Author Share Posted April 16, 2013 I certainly can't. Anyway, I do agree that the mastery is currently sort of moot other than to unlock some newer weapons. The thing is that it doesn't reflect a player's gear or rank, or experience for that matter. Somebody who is at level 3 could have played the same amount of time as somebody with level 8. The only difference is that the latter is just more acquinted with a larger variety of firearms and weapons (which in a way IS experience, but you get my point. I am thinking that instead, mastery should reflect the player's performance more and that it becomes a fluctuating thing. Other than doing the usual stuff, playing nice (reviving, staying close to your squad, assists, support powers, etc) should give you additional points so that the good guys are generally rated higher than those who just kill everything. That way you are, in a sense, trying to become a Tenno elite through unity and expertise. It also tells you a lot more about someone when you see their levels. Anyway, just a thought. i like this 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mast3rr Posted April 17, 2013 Author Share Posted April 17, 2013 Take any mmorpg and try to figure out a system that tells you to play warrior in order to level your mage. This is pretty much what we are having in warframe right now. You want better weapons? Sorry it unlocks only on higher mastery levels. Time to switch frame/weapon/pet/style/everything. Gl hf. I agree with the OP that the mastery system is ridiculous. Especially if i consider that inventory slots are limited. So not only are you forced to play stuff you do not want to play, but you are also screwed twice over cause you cant keep everything unless you pay up for more slots. Considering everything together: This system VERY far from being user friendly. All suggestions are rooted in the fact that you as an individual would prefer something differently. Please dont try to twist this into an ad hominem. Everything you perceive as lacking has one constant in it: yourself. Just like the joke about failed relationships says. Couldn't agree more. You also hit points that I previously overlooked (the limited inventory slots) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mast3rr Posted April 17, 2013 Author Share Posted April 17, 2013 (edited) So for the ppl that do not think this is a problem (btw Im mastery 5 so you guys can drop that "he's crying bc hes not ranked" arguement) If a player REALLY likes his lato....he gets screwed bc he can gain more mastery bc he REALLY wants to try that hek shotgun. He really likes the boltor but he needs more mastery for the hek. He REALLY likes the gram but he needs more mastery for the hek. So the player is FORCED to try different weapons that he may or may not like. Some weapons hes going to absolutely hate. This is also exasperated by the limited inventory slots. So in this case...the game IS punishing you for trying to enjoy your experiance. Samething for warframes, I like Ash, Ember, Mag and I don't really have any desire to try other warframes but I'll be "punished" if I don't since I won't gain mastery. I bet everyone would think differently when the glaive comes out and its only for mastery rank 10. I'll be damned if I MUST use the AKLATO to boost my mastery...[barf]. Apparently there is a prestige mode coming out. Yes that would enable me to grind out my favorite boltor/paris/hek/lex/dual vipers and start over again bc I love these weapons. But lets be honest, everyone is going to change the polarity slot that gives you multishot and BOOM done. The polarity changes dont matter much if you put on an orokin catalyst/reactor either. I still have yet to use all 60 mod slots..... Edited April 17, 2013 by Mast3rr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEATHLOK Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 I have to disagree. I think a valuable part of the experience is trying new things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mast3rr Posted April 17, 2013 Author Share Posted April 17, 2013 (edited) I have to disagree. I think a valuable part of the experience is trying new things. Than let the player to decide to try new things. Don't punish the player for NOT trying new things. Let the player play the game how he wants to play it. That is the whole point of this thread. Edited April 17, 2013 by Mast3rr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValhaHazred Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 The Devs have said ranking up in mastery will grant free Frame and Weapon slots soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerensiniac Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 I have to disagree. I think a valuable part of the experience is trying new things. I agree except for: a.) This is not experiencing cause you are forced to power level all frames/weapons/pets/whatever b.) Experiencing something should be a choice and not something you are forced to do Your medium for traversing the game (your avatar if you will) is probably the closest representation to who/what you are. Forcing other roles and forms on others turns experience into a chore instead of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancingfirefly Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 (edited) I agree except for: a.) This is not experiencing cause you are forced to power level all frames/weapons/pets/whatever b.) Experiencing something should be a choice and not something you are forced to do Your medium for traversing the game (your avatar if you will) is probably the closest representation to who/what you are. Forcing other roles and forms on others turns experience into a chore instead of fun. Nobody is forcing you to gain mastery levels past level 4. Level 4 by my experience can be gotten with one frame and around 4-5 weapons. You start with enough slots to reach rank 4 and only need to spend credits to do so. Then you can have your shiny Hek, since that's really the only physical reward anyone gets at rank 4. Then after that, who cares? Who cares what mastery rank you are? It doesn't influence your gameplay at all. It's a badge. You earn that badge by experiencing more weapons/frames. You don't become super overpowered by earning these ranks, you just earn a little more prestige and that's it. Now, if the devs DO decide to make ranks 5-beyond meaningful beyond a badge, then I agree that they should make it a little easier to get those ranks. Being able to 'recycle' weapon/frame levels sounds like a neat way to do it. Otherwise, this system is operating as intended, as a badge and that's it. You can't enter a dojo, learn one karate technique to its fullest, then expect to be nominated a black belt. It doesn't work that way. Edit: Really, I'll start having a problem with it the moment they attach actual rewards to the ranks. As it stands, I like what the system is meant to represent, but if they attach rewards to it, I'm all for people having easier access to said rewards. But as it stands, it's just a 'feel good' reward and that's it. Actually, I totally approve of gaining more slots per mastery rank. Yes, yes yes. It remains a badge for people who experience many weapon types, but gives them the tools needed to do so. This is a brilliant idea. You won't need the slots if you don't want to try new weapons. So once again, who cares? Edited April 17, 2013 by Dancingfirefly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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