Ember And World On Fire

[Epicagemo]

So I've recently picked Ember up, dusted her off with a new build, and Ember's World on Fire really seems like a nice AOE damage with Accelerant and somewhat viable near T3 with a lot more drop off in T4. Ember's WOF really feels like an MMO styled ability-casting ability DOT while keeping massive amounts of DPS going with Accelerant, WOF, and Fire weapons.

 

However, a massive problem is that I have to bring my squishy Ember into the FRONT lines when using WOF, due to the range. I fear that I might die... This shouldn't be the case.

 

A way to change that is:

Remember the "baby WOF effect with a shield"?

 

Lug Overheat into WOF and combine that so Ember feels somewhat protected. This will make Ember a true frame to play, with defensive and offensive caster capabilities, while making her more enjoyable to play. (However, half the DR or use 15/20/25/30% DR because looking at wiki archive-90% DR is kinda OP)

 

Will this be "OP"?

No. Ember is meant to be played a DPS role and deserves some kind of defensive buff. Compare this to Mirage- Mirage is DPS oriented and has her way of "multiplying" damage, while having a bit of survivability from HOM and Eclipse.

 

Thanks for reading!

 

PS. Fire blast is completely crap. This should have probably been replaced with Accelerant, not Overheat.

For anyone wondering, The build I use: Max shield/health mod, Intensify, Stretch, Accel, WOF, Fireball, Streamline, Narrow Minded, Nat Talent. The only way to keep damage up and be viable to the party and end game T4 content is to spam, and the only way to spam is to have cheapness, the only way to achieve cheapness is to sacrifice a bit of range.

[Eeirail]

All I take from this is you want the kills basically given to you?

 

You mods to buff her range and suitability. I used her short range to my advantage by stacking speed and power on her. 

 

In my personal opinion, you should not focus on the reach of the power but the strength and how fast you can get around to using it.

[VKhaun]

However, a massive problem is that I have to bring my squishy Ember into the FRONT lines when using WOF, due to the range. I fear that I might die... This shouldn't be the case.

 

Yes it should.

 

I don't think Ember (+/- Prime) is perfect right now, but the direction is obviously that of a glass cannon. You need your team to fill that gap, not be given free tank skills. If every frame made perfect sense on paper, it'd just be an RPG. At some point action and co-op need to be factors.

 

You see the same thing in all the Frost threads. I don't think he's perfect either, but people want him to be given all kinds of damage and CC to make him 'balanced' but then he'd just be an unfairly tanky mage.

 

In the end, I think you're going to win. Overheat was such a sore spot for the community that I'm sure when they do neutral skills there will be something similar in there to help defend any frame who puts it on and you'll be able to put a defense skill on your Ember (+/- Prime) frame, but I don't consider that to be any great victory for co-op mechanics.

Edited September 3, 2014 by VKhaun

[Faulcun]

you are proposing changes based on pressing 4 to win. Please try again.

 

Ember has all she needs to be effective. That doesnt mean pushing accelerant before you press 4 either.

 

Fireball is awesome, and has a small AOE

accelerant has a stun effect, and is amazing when you mod your weapons for fire damage.

 

Learn to use these abilities more often.

[PhoenixElite]

All I take from this is you want the kills basically given to you?

Kills given to you? I'm pretty sure that's Nova. Ember is considered a glass-cannon frame, she's slightly below average, specifically when compared to other glass cannon frames like Mirage, Nova, etc.

 

If you think about it, Mirage is basically a better Ember.

  Fireball (pure offense) - Simple, shoots a ball of fire that does 900 damage at max strength

  Hall of Mirrors (mix of offense and defense) - Creates 4 clones that deal a percentage of your weapon's damage AND help draw away enemy fire

 

  Accelerant (utility) - Increases fire damage done to enemies, and a 2 second stun

  Eclipse (mix of offense and defense) - In light, increases weapon damage, in darkness, it decreases damage taken up to 90%, hmmm, reminds of Overheat

 

  Fireblast (offense/utility) - Terrible in every way possible, the only good thing about it is the stun from when enemies catch on fire

  Sleight of hand (offense/utility) - Miscellaneous stuff, mostly utility

 

  World on fire (offense) - Forces you to get close and personal with enemies, which forces you to take the risk of an enemy knocking you down, and possibly even killing you. Does the same amount of damage as fireball, and is limited by every single aspect of abilities (strength, range, duration, and efficiency), basically, you can't max it out without it being negatively affected by something else

  Prism (offense/utility) - Creates a laser light show that damages that are practically on the other side of the map, and can be detonated for an effect like Radial Blind, giving a melee damage multiplier of 4x

  Nova's MPrime (offense/utility) - An ability, that if not modded for duration, makes you get close and personal with enemies, but guess what, the enemies affected by it are slowed severely, take 2x damage from ALL sources, and even explode on death, causing a chain of death to unfold. On top of that, can be modded for a "Speed Nova" which helps infested defense missions go by, a LOT faster and more easily.

 

 

Basically, yeah, Ember needs a buff.

[Epicagemo]

All I take from this is you want the kills basically given to you?

 

You mods to buff her range and suitability. I used her short range to my advantage by stacking speed and power on her. 

 

In my personal opinion, you should not focus on the reach of the power but the strength and how fast you can get around to using it.

Take a look at my mod list. I have narrow minded on as well as intensify... she still needs to be up close and personal, hence making her an easy target. Also proving that she needs some defensive abilities. Her DPS output comes no where close to Nova/Mirage. So why not give her some extra pointers in defense?

 

you are proposing changes based on pressing 4 to win. Please try again.

 

Ember has all she needs to be effective. That doesnt mean pushing accelerant before you press 4 either.

 

Fireball is awesome, and has a small AOE

accelerant has a stun effect, and is amazing when you mod your weapons for fire damage.

 

Learn to use these abilities more often.

Nova is basically pressing 4 and winning as a damage character, why can't ember?

"Learn to use these abilities more often" ->I spam the living crap out of my buttons when I play Ember. Take a look at my mod list for her which consists of Natural Talent+Max Efficiency.

 

Yes it should.

 

I don't think Ember (+/- Prime) is perfect right now, but the direction is obviously that of a glass cannon. You need your team to fill that gap, not be given free tank skills. If every frame made perfect sense on paper, it'd just be an RPG. At some point action and co-op need to be factors.

 

You see the same thing in all the Frost threads. I don't think he's perfect either, but people want him to be given all kinds of damage and CC to make him 'balanced' but then he'd just be an unfairly tanky mage.

 

In the end, I think you're going to win. Overheat was such a sore spot for the community that I'm sure when they do neutral skills there will be something similar in there to help defend any frame who puts it on and you'll be able to put a defense skill on your Ember (+/- Prime) frame, but I don't consider that to be any great victory for co-op mechanics.

Nailed my points down... I can barely respond. Saved the best for last, giving the most insightful responses

 

I was not with a team when I was testing her out. However, with the other DPS classes-It would be easier to solo the T3 Exterm with a Nova/Mirage.

The reason why I wanted her to have some defensive skills were because her DPS output latter game would not compare anywhere to another DPS character.

Think of it this way... There are 3 people(Mirage/Nova/Ember), each with 3 cups filled with milk (DPS/Defensive/Utility).

1 cup stands for DPS, 1 cup stands for Defensive, 1 cup stands for Utility/CC.

Mirage has DPS cup 70%, defensive at 20%, and 10% Utility/CC

Nova has DPS cup 40% DPS, 20% Defensive, and 40% Utility/CC

Ember has 60% DPS, 10% defensive, and 10% Utility. What happened to the 20%?-This is where balancing needs to start. "What happened to the 20%." Ember's missing 20% of her milk. Now imagine a BABY Mirage and Nova with their milk and cookies, while Ember has her cup of milk half full. Without milk, Ember can't grow big and strong!

 

Either WOF needs to be buffed with more damage, or with overheat.

[Epicagemo]

For the sake of space-> ...

...

 

 

Basically, yeah, Ember needs a buff.

Nailed that better than I could have. +1

[Azawarau]

I use ember in vry close range with max damage and duration min (or nea min cant remember if i use stretch with narow minded or not) range and efficiency

 

If you know how to dodge you can work miracles and rape enemies literally

 

EDIT

 

Ill add that ember does need some work done

 

Her WoF is too mod heavy and leaves her with literally no room for defense or utility

Edited September 4, 2014 by Azawarau

[bl4ckhunter]

i think that the problem is a bit your build, why staking shields/hp when you obiviously can't tank? try something like this http://goo.gl/KZ4WWI, with accelerant+world on fire you should be able to kill even high level t4 fast enough, reflex guard is just a personal preference as you're going to deal most of your damage with world on fire and relfex guard blocks all damage coming in front of you almost completely, so long as you keep movng and avoid aoe attacks (wich don't occur in the void so you should be fine for t4) you aren't going to die too much, plus if you've got to be up close for world on fire to work might as well go melee don't you think?

Edited September 4, 2014 by bl4ckhunter

[XenoFant]

She is just CC

That´s all :P

[TisEric]

Ember "glass cannon" argument is BS .

She has the slowest speed of any caster frame.

She has minimal armor.

Her abilities are all DoT and not Burst.

Minimal CC if actually proc'ed.

Heat damage scaling is terrible.

Massive mod requirement to build her into anything specific.

 

All i need to make my nova or mirage shine as casters is streamline , intensify and continuity/ constitution  , ember need all of those + stretch + flow to have good enough damage over time with WoF + accelerant to match.

Edited September 4, 2014 by TisEric

[Azawarau]

Ember "glass cannon" argument is BS .

She has the slowest speed of any caster frame.

She has minimal armor.

Her abilities are all DoT and not Burst.

Minimal CC if actually proc'ed.

Heat damage scaling is terrible.

Massive mod requirement to build her into anything specific.

 

All i need to make my nova or mirage shine as casters is streamline , intensify and continuity/ constitution  , ember need all of those + stretch + flow to have good enough damage over time with WoF + accelerant to match.

Youre gravely underestimating a good ember if you think shes lower than mirage in terms of raw damage output

[TisEric]

Youre gravely underestimating a good ember if you think shes lower than mirage in terms of raw damage output

 

i said as casters.

Mirage has only 1 pure damage ability to speak of , prism while not as strong as WoF in terms of damage but it does hit more targets on a much longer range and end with a blind.

 

and anyway how is the accelerant buff to heat damage makes for better dps than mirages eclipse?

Max out power strength and that thing is a massive increase in your damage output that has no range limit. 

[Azawarau]

i said as casters.

Mirage has only 1 pure damage ability to speak of , prism while not as strong as WoF in terms of damage but it does hit more targets on a much longer range and end with a blind.

 

and anyway how is the accelerant buff to heat damage makes for better dps than mirages eclipse?

Max out power strength and that thing is a massive increase in your damage output that has no range limit. 

200-500%  damage buff on weapons and powers along with a stun

 

Add WoF and a fire build gun for extremely high DPS on the fly

[Hueminator]

WoF need more proc chance.

[Epicagemo]

i think that the problem is a bit your build, why staking shields/hp when you obiviously can't tank? try something like this http://goo.gl/KZ4WWI, with accelerant+world on fire you should be able to kill even high level t4 fast enough, reflex guard is just a personal preference as you're going to deal most of your damage with world on fire and relfex guard blocks all damage coming in front of you almost completely, so long as you keep movng and avoid aoe attacks (wich don't occur in the void so you should be fine for t4) you aren't going to die too much, plus if you've got to be up close for world on fire to work might as well go melee don't you think?

I got my build off CalypsoGaming via Youtube, modified it for natural talent (WOF has a stupid long casting time)

I think the build linked is a fine build. However, in theory, this will actually lower DPS especially when going melee as melee tends to fall off in T4s. (and melee comes nothing close to a soma, boltor prime, or a supercharged bow.) Also, the main problem of T3s/T4s are the Heavy Gunners. Want to melee those guys? get greeted back with an AOE punch. You cannot spam the living crap out of your buttons, leaving the Accelerant and WOF highly limited. And since Accel is limited and with it's current stun effect, they can pull out of stun quickly.

[Azawarau]

I got my build off CalypsoGaming via Youtube, modified it for natural talent (WOF has a stupid long casting time)

I think the build linked is a fine build. However, in theory, this will actually lower DPS especially when going melee as melee tends to fall off in T4s. (and melee comes nothing close to a soma, boltor prime, or a supercharged bow.) Also, the main problem of T3s/T4s are the Heavy Gunners. Want to melee those guys? get greeted back with an AOE punch. You cannot spam the living crap out of your buttons, leaving the Accelerant and WOF highly limited. And since Accel is limited and with it's current stun effect, they can pull out of stun quickly.

Might want to remove natural talent

 

it really does little for your build in terms of DPS or utility/efficiency and acts more as a luxury