General Feedback--Broad Range Of Topics.

[cabbiethefirst]

This is a general feedback thread of thoughts and general opinions of the group I've been playing this game for a couple months with.

 

 

Warframes: 

The diversity among warframes is pretty balanced in my experience. The different abilities that the warframes hold create a lot of different potential play styles that people can customize to their own liking. The process of constructing a warframe can be a little monotonous at times due to the long build times and the time taken to get the blueprints for the parts as well. It's not terrible, it just becomes very, very, tedious as a result of the farming necessary by killing bosses over and over again for the correct parts discussed in the next section.

 

Bosses:

Almost all of the current bosses have little-to-no strategy involved in actually slaying the boss. It feels that most of the assassination missions are just you and your squad killing a bullet sponge that either does no damage because it misses all of its attacks, or it does an absurd amount of damage because the boss fires a gun that has near 100% accuracy. This creates two different scenarios.

 

The first scenario looks a little like:

The boss is very easily kited around, doesn't ever really threaten the player. Tyl Regor for example has a melee weapon for a primary attack. These attacks are so easily kite-able it's pretty pathetic. All you have to do is walk backwards and he'll swing in the air dealing no damage while you just fire bullet after bullet into him. These bosses are also usually coupled with a also unnecessary large amount of health. They feel as if they are just a useless bullet sponge that's unkillable and deals no damage. The player feels no threat from the boss and contributes to some stale gameplay. These bosses are unnecessarily easy and add little excitement to gameplay.

 

The second scenario looks a little like:

The boss has 100% accuracy with it's primary gun, has absurd abilities that 1-shot a rank 30 warframe, and are generally a frustrating experience. These bosses also feel as if they are a giant bullet sponge. Because these bosses just fire a gun that has very high accuracy, it doesn't allow the player very many counter-play options. There isn't really anything besides becoming very tanky or kiting the boss's aggro around walls that allow the player to counter anything that the boss does. It adds to the same stale battle style where you are shooting bullets into a sponge while kiting the boss aggro around a wall/pillar etc.

 

It'd be very refreshing to see mechanics incorporated into bosses that allows the player to make dynamic decisions based on choices selected by the boss. Game mechanics that are present in the Jackal, such as shooting the legs in order to be able to damage the boss, is a step in the right direction. It allows the player to develop a strategy that rewards them for making smart decisions and reacting well in a situation while not instantly killing them for making one wrong move. Focusing fire in the right spot at the right time (weak spots that are temporarily exposed), Abilities used by the boss that allow the player an option to dodge if reacted to correctly, and having Shield-Ospreys appear during the course of a boss fight are all possible boss mechanics that allow the player to make smarter choices in defeating the boss that leaves the player feeling more rewarded.

One of the poor boss mechanics that I think needs to be reworked is the low cooldown-high regeneration-high capacity shield present in many boss fights. It might be a good change to make this boss-shield-regeneration-mechanic unique to just one boss. It's a veeeeery frustrating thing in some situations to have a boss regenerate a very large shield after not being attacked for just 1 second.

 

Creating unique boss arenas is something that I also think would be a step in the right direction. Creating a unique environment for a boss allows mechanics to be created that interact with the map.

 

Weapons:

The weapon affinity system is a pretty good thing in my opinion. It's pretty cool to be able to level up your gear, it makes you want to use a weapon consistently. I don't think it's at a point where you have to grind affinity for weapons. I think it's at a good balance.

I really enjoy how you can completely customize the stats that you want on a particular weapon using the mod system.

There might be some small balance issues that need to be addressed with the power of certain weapons. I think it would be good to have one type of each weapon (Rifle/Shotgun/Sniper) in each tier of power. There isn't really anything that compares to the HEK in any other weapon type. (IE there isn't really a sniper or a rifle that compares to the power of the HEK in any other weapon category)

 

 

Mob Diversity:

I feel that there is a slight lack of diversity between the mobs that are present in the game. It'd be nice to see enemies that have specific weaknesses that players can plan against (more diverse weaknesses, shotgun weakness etc). With such little diversity, I don't think players have to try very hard to prioritize enemies. There is very little decision making involved in deciding what enemies you should focus down first. For example, you should focus down Shield-Osprey's when they are shielding other units. You should probably focus down a Grineer Heavy Gunner that's very close to you (these units suffer the same issue discussed in the boss section, very high accuracy and damage, huge damage sponge, very little counter play options). An increase in the diversity of units will force the player to prioritize units in a  not-braindead way. Units that place heavy pressure on the player (while not being a 100% accurate damage sponge, see boss section again) will add many more gameplay dynamics.

 

Tile System:

The tile system is for the most part, pretty well done. I've experienced some issues however that places waypoints in the void. This very rarely occurs

The main thing about the tile system that I'd like to see improved would be the sheer number of tiles available. While the tile system does add a lot of randomness to the map, after a while of playing, I felt some of the tiles getting overly redundant. I think it's a priority that the number of tiles gets vastly expanded so the player isn't frequently experiencing deja vu. 

 

Mod System:

I really like the way the mod system is currently set up now. Being able to 'level up' abilities and mods allows for a lot of choice and character customization. It really feels like  I have a lot of choice as to what I want my warframe to be strong at.

I do believe that there should be a resource in-game that reveals specific numbers of abilities and also reveals the bonuses achieved by attaining the next rank of that mod through fusion cores. There is a wiki to find out how powerful a spell is such as "Well of Life" however, there are a lot of missing numbers and there isn't a definitive way to find out these numbers.

 

 

Misc:

I've experienced some small bugs:

 

You can jump kick through doors with the laser lock active. Just run, jump, hit control, and you go through 80% of the time.

You can sometimes get infinitely stuck inside the laser locked doors. You get put into a loop where the recovery animation is played forever and you lose all control of your warframe.

Shotgun damage doesn't seem to be registering properly on the scoreboard. In most games, I have 10-30 more kills than a teammate yet have only 5% of the damage. I don't think I steal kills that much...

 

 

 

 

Once again, these are my own criticisms and by no means indicative of the game's quality, it's still very good for being in beta and I feel there is a lot of potential if specific game mechanics are addressed and fixed.

Edited April 18, 2013 by cabbiethefirst

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Enemies do have weak spots. Besides the head, I mean. Infested ancients have their leg (the big one), grineer lancers and derivatives have both their legs, corpus moas have the middle, though that's technically the head on them. Basically, the've all got places that aren't covered by armor.

 

Also, various enemies take different damage from elemental attacks - eg infested take something like 3-4x fire damage, corpus the same for lightning. And corpus crewmen have that armored head that's invulnerable to all damage except AP, which takes a whopping 2000% damage from such sources.

 

Not that I wouldn't mind seeing more variety, I'm just saying.

[cabbiethefirst]

Yeah, I overlooked some of those aspects, I didn't really even notice that there were those weaknesses. Nor did I ever get indicated of it in the game itself. I still agree that more variety in that area can't be bad.

[Exroath]

How about my internet sucks don't make me host button?

[HvcTerr]

One idea for bosses: Put up some permanent corpus-style laser doors, so that if they're getting pounded, they can retreat, forcing you to follow by different routes. (Similarly, if you need to retreat, you can't just run away in a straight  line.)

[cabbiethefirst]

One idea for bosses: Put up some permanent corpus-style laser doors, so that if they're getting pounded, they can retreat, forcing you to follow by different routes. (Similarly, if you need to retreat, you can't just run away in a straight  line.)

Possible, there is a vast amount of boss mechanics that can be utilized to create bosses with different strategies to beat, at least much more diverse than the current ones at least.

[HvcTerr]

Heck, even a boss whose main move is to run to another room, lock you out, and summon another wave of bodyguards.

[Varil]

How about my internet sucks don't make me host button?

 

Yeah, that'd be nice. Instead of starting a match, a way to set it so you auto-join matches that start on a given stage. I don't want to inflict my poor connection on anyone, so it'd be nice to not be forced to host if no missions are currently active where I want to be.

[drsuperfly]

I agree with most of what you said.  I would just make the glitches with the waypoint system a priorty.  I'm tired of getting lost all the time trying to follow a waypoint that just changes its position when I head in its direction or having it point me to into a dead end. 

 

Also would like to strongly agree what you said about the bosses.  There are a lot of differnt things a boss could do just to mix it up.  There is something in gaming called Anti-fun.  The uber fast shield regen bullit sponges are just that.

 

Here are a few suggestions for things bosses could do besides just eat a lot of damage:

 

Gravity well-  Lob a bomb or something that slows players hit by it.

Reflect damage-  They cast some color shield that lest you know any damage dealt to them will instead hit you.

Repulsion-  Speed reduced if you move toward them.

Taunt the chickens- If you are moving away from them when they cast it you are pulled to them.

Man traps- If you run into one it imobilzes you until you destroy the trap.

[cabbiethefirst]

I agree with most of what you said.  I would just make the glitches with the waypoint system a priorty.  I'm tired of getting lost all the time trying to follow a waypoint that just changes its position when I head in its direction or having it point me to into a dead end. 

 

Also would like to strongly agree what you said about the bosses.  There are a lot of differnt things a boss could do just to mix it up.  There is something in gaming called Anti-fun.  The uber fast shield regen bullit sponges are just that.

 

Here are a few suggestions for things bosses could do besides just eat a lot of damage:

 

Gravity well-  Lob a bomb or something that slows players hit by it.

Reflect damage-  They cast some color shield that lest you know any damage dealt to them will instead hit you.

Repulsion-  Speed reduced if you move toward them.

Taunt the chickens- If you are moving away from them when they cast it you are pulled to them.

Man traps- If you run into one it imobilzes you until you destroy the trap.

It'd be great to see mechanics along the lines of these (tweaked a bit of course) implemented into bosses. They really are just useless, or godlike damage sponges.

[auxy]

I like a lot of your points. Let me address a few:

 

As far as the Warframes go, they're too similar, IMO. Minor differences in health and shield aren't that big a deal in terms of how they affect your gameplay; not since you're likely to use the same weapons on a new frame. The only critical differences are the powers, and with the Energy system the way it is, well, they're just unbalanced. Weak powers cost too much energy to use and can't be used often enough; strong powers are too easy to exploit. Nevermind that many of the frames' powers feel like variations on a theme, which is NOT bad, it just means that in the end it feels like more of the same without some variation in energy cost or range and such.

 

I'd also like to see more cosmetic options for the Warframes beyond helmets, especially credit-purchasable ones -- and if I have to buy them with platinum, at least make them reasonably priced (not 150 platinum for a helmet, that's just $&*&*#(%&.)

 

Your remarks on Bosses are spot-on, I think. I expect they plan to do some more revision to the bosses, as right now, they're almost universally awful.

 

As far as Weapons go, I do mostly agree with you, except that rapid-firing weapons are in general just worse all around than the weapons with a higher single-shot damage code. There's no guarantee you'll be kept in ammo for your bulletspammer, which leaves you overly cautious to use it. It's a bad system.

 

I agree with you as well about the Enemies. Better AI is a must, but I think it's coming.

 

On Tiles, they could make a few more tiles by splitting some of the existing, very large tiles. The outdoor maps are guilty of this somewhat, by having enormous, detailed tiles -- which I appreciate, don't mistake me! -- which could be broken up several times over. I'd also like to see a little randomness, if possible, in the tile layouts. An example:

 

You know that one tile in the "ship" tileset which has one medium-sized room with a "U" shape, where one side is elevated and the other is lower, and underneath the elevated portion there is a "secret" room that you have to access via a ventilation grate? I'd like that to not be there sometimes. It'd mix things up a little; add some variation.

 

Lastly, about the Mod System... I'm sorry, but I really think it's just too grindy right now. Fusions require too many credits and it takes six-to-ten missions to generate the funds for even one high-level fusion. It's just really demoralizing to think, "Okay, I've got a bunch of cards now, so let's fuse them and ... NINE THOUSAND CREDITS?"

 

There are also too many hidden stats. This game needs something like Torchlight II's "deep magic" panel, where you can see all the numbers for your mods, both before and after Fusion. That would really incentivize progress, and it would help the developers too, since they could iron out obvious imbalances much more quickly.

[HvcTerr]

One of the interesting points about tiles someone brought up is this: If each individual tile is predictable (if you've seen it before) this means you are able to pull off all the sweet acrobatic moves. 

 

Too much intra-tile randomization, and the enemy are already dead before you figure out how you could use the terrain to your advantage.

[cabbiethefirst]

I like a lot of your points. Let me address a few:

 

As far as the Warframes go, they're too similar, IMO. Minor differences in health and shield aren't that big a deal in terms of how they affect your gameplay; not since you're likely to use the same weapons on a new frame. The only critical differences are the powers, and with the Energy system the way it is, well, they're just unbalanced. Weak powers cost too much energy to use and can't be used often enough; strong powers are too easy to exploit. Nevermind that many of the frames' powers feel like variations on a theme, which is NOT bad, it just means that in the end it feels like more of the same without some variation in energy cost or range and such.

 

I'd also like to see more cosmetic options for the Warframes beyond helmets, especially credit-purchasable ones -- and if I have to buy them with platinum, at least make them reasonably priced (not 150 platinum for a helmet, that's just $&*&*#(%&.)

 

Your remarks on Bosses are spot-on, I think. I expect they plan to do some more revision to the bosses, as right now, they're almost universally awful.

 

As far as Weapons go, I do mostly agree with you, except that rapid-firing weapons are in general just worse all around than the weapons with a higher single-shot damage code. There's no guarantee you'll be kept in ammo for your bulletspammer, which leaves you overly cautious to use it. It's a bad system.

 

I agree with you as well about the Enemies. Better AI is a must, but I think it's coming.

 

On Tiles, they could make a few more tiles by splitting some of the existing, very large tiles. The outdoor maps are guilty of this somewhat, by having enormous, detailed tiles -- which I appreciate, don't mistake me! -- which could be broken up several times over. I'd also like to see a little randomness, if possible, in the tile layouts. An example:

 

You know that one tile in the "ship" tileset which has one medium-sized room with a "U" shape, where one side is elevated and the other is lower, and underneath the elevated portion there is a "secret" room that you have to access via a ventilation grate? I'd like that to not be there sometimes. It'd mix things up a little; add some variation.

 

Lastly, about the Mod System... I'm sorry, but I really think it's just too grindy right now. Fusions require too many credits and it takes six-to-ten missions to generate the funds for even one high-level fusion. It's just really demoralizing to think, "Okay, I've got a bunch of cards now, so let's fuse them and ... NINE THOUSAND CREDITS?"

 

There are also too many hidden stats. This game needs something like Torchlight II's "deep magic" panel, where you can see all the numbers for your mods, both before and after Fusion. That would really incentivize progress, and it would help the developers too, since they could iron out obvious imbalances much more quickly.

I'm glad you agree with most of the points I made. I think that there could obviously use a bit of balance tweaking between warframes between and abilities as well as other aspects. While the mod SYSTEM itself is very good, I haven't really ever been short on credits to apply the fusion for it. I always run out of mods before I run out of credits...

[Menticide-Nyx]

I think there's another point to be discussed - Missions

 

Let's go over all the mission types, and what you do in them. I've grouped missions that are similar.

 

Kill special enemy

Assassination

Usually for bosses, you fight your way to the damage sponge and kill him, then fight your way out.

 

Go to X, then leave

Capture

Fight your way to a lone crewman, and disintegrate him, and fight your way out.

Raid

Fight your way to an artifact, take it, and fight your way out.

Sabotage

Fight your way to a reactor, shoot it, then fight your way out.

Deception

Spawn with a data-suticase, fight your way to a terminal in the ship, and fight your way out.

Rescue

Fight your way to a prison, get prisoner, fight your way out while escorting prisoner.

 

Go to multiple objectives, then leave

Spy

Fight your way to four data terminals, take the suitcase of data, and fight your way out.

 

Kill all enemies

Exterminate

Kill all enemies.

 

Defend objective from waves of enemies

Defense

Defend objective from waves of enemies

Mobile Defense

Carry data-suitcase to two terminals, defend for a few waves, defend final objective for a few waves, leave.

 

So far, there are five (arguable four) mission types - 

Defend objective from waves of enemies

Go to multiple Xs, then leave

Go to X, then leave

Kill special enemy

Kill all enemies

 

I'd like to see a greater variety of mission types. So far, half of the missions are basically the same formula  It's kind of like a game of mad libs. Let's play.

You and your team break into a(n)                            ship, and fight your way to              a(n)                . After

                                                           (race of enemies)                                             (verb)          (noun)

this is done, your mission changes and you now must fight your way to              a(n)                . After that, you

                                                                                                                             (verb)          (noun)

fight your way to extraction.

 

Here are a few ideas for mission types (cool names not included)

Parkour

Strictly parkour. A race to beat the clock, relying on your sweet ninja skills to get places. here's a few scenarios that I think would fit in warframe:

       Training

       You're in a tenno ship (or that white space used for the tutorial), just to practice. You run from marker to marker,      eventually making it to the finish.

   

       prior to an assassination mission 

       You're dropped off by your ship outside, and must parkour your way up to the target before he leaves. (this can be inside a ship, outside on a mountain, outside on several buildings, etc.)

 

      ITS A TRAP/SUPRISE ATTACK

      Your ship is attacked, and there is no hope of saving it, you parkour your way through your (sideways/torn apart/other variable that makes simply using walkways and doors impossible) ship to an escape pod as your ship (tears apart/run away from over 9000 enemies/fills with lava/other incentive to keep moving)

 

Threesome (another variation on fight to X then leave, think of Metal Gear Solid 4)

     Two or more factions are battling, and you must sneak/fight/get through the battle to ________ a(n) ________

                                                                                                                                           (verb)                (noun)

 

I know more content will be added in the future, but I just wanted to stress that variety in this game will keep it interesting. Tell me what you think of this.

Edited April 19, 2013 by TsukasaKun