So You Can Pay To Be Twice As Powerful?

[Ced23Ric]

Ugh, who the hell are you paying to win against?!?.....  

 

This game is NOT P2W.  In other words, there isn't any competition vs the players.  Na'da.  Okay, glad we got that covered (again.)  On to the next one.

 

I was going to respond individually, but, this.

 

There is no one competing with you. And since they are accessible sans cash, there is no other advantage than the convenience of circumventing a wait period. And that is pretty much the core of decent F2P - cash cannot give you engine-effective stuff others cannot get, it gets you stuff more conveniently.

[-Vondred-]

 

This item

 

Lol, that's weird, because, I minimized my game, to see the picture of the exact thing I was just looking at.  2 bluprints for Catalyst in my Foundry.  \o

[-Vondred-]

I was going to respond individually, but, this.

 

There is no one competing with you. And since they are accessible sans cash, there is no other advantage than the convenience of circumventing a wait period. And that is pretty much the core of decent F2P - cash cannot give you engine-effective stuff others cannot get, it gets you stuff more conveniently.

And Also, This! --^

 

PS: Sorry for the spam posts :|

[Drusus]

For other people, the question is whether spending money gets players an advantage that free players cannot get. 

 

This really should be the only measure of a Pay 2 Win structure, where it provides an unquestionable competitive advantage against other players.

 

Planetside 2 was accused on launch of being effectively pay 2 win because free players would be utterly unable to compete reasonably with paying players for a very long time, and further hindered in acquiring the resources needed to correct the imbalance, due to the at launch highly punitive pricing plan.  Despite that, it was not actually Pay 2 Win, as free players could indeed duplicate any advantage through gameplay.

 

A true pay to win structure would be something like A.V.A. that allowed you to purchase items that boosted your critical kill chance (essentially insta-gib) with cash only items for player vs player engagements.  That was an advantage free players could NOT duplicate, ever, and directly swayed the victory conditions and likelihood of every engagement where those paid assets were in play.

 

People can define it for themselves however they want, but it abuses the terms validity and generally accepted parlance muddying the water for intelligent discussion.

 

It's especially inappropriate to call WarFrame pay2win because there is no scenario here where mechanical advantage are isolated only to the paying player AND players are operating, at present, in purely co-operative means.  I have tremendous difficulty viewing comments of Warframe as pay to win as anything but misinformed ignorance or outright trolling.

[-Vondred-]

This really should be the only measure of a Pay 2 Win structure, where it provides an unquestionable competitive advantage against other players.

 

 

But there is no advantage.  What -- time?  Is that what it boils down to?

 

"We have to actually play the game to achieve what other people PAY to get in moments (**in which helps support the game so that we may continue to PLAY IT FOR FREE**)."

 

(** = what players should be saying to players who spend their money on this game.)

 

Talking about advantages, lol, joke.

 

Also, I agree with everything else you said.  This is a Coop game.  I mean you guys do realize that not only am I supporting this community, this company, this game, with my hard earned money, but I'm also using it to HELP you guys get what you want through these missions, right?

 

I mean that's like complaining about having a free bodyguard that does everything you tell him to, and that bodyguard spent money to protect you.

 

LAUGH.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Vondredd

[fauxhb]

i can't stand people complaining that they cannot acquire slots in-game. buy it, for god's sake. i'm waiting till i get my four euros into moneybookers and account and doing it. it doesn't cost much. in no country is that price big. come on, guys.

[UncaIroh]

yeah, but if you never tried the other frames, how will you know which one you love? Are you prepared to sell the frames then build the one you love again after trying everything out? Make multiple accounts just to try out all the frames?

 

Seeing as I've spent an inordinate amount of time on this game, I'll probably throw a few dollars at the devs.

[Slorch]

speaking of slots I wish there was some way to get them with out spending money... maybe they could coast alot of credits or you could get them every 2 mastery levels...

meant warframe slots.

[Slorch]

ummmmm, one moment plz ! when you create acount you ave 50 platinum , and with this , you can buy 2 items ! for fully équiped one frame , you need 4 ! maby for 3,50€ you ave more than you need ! and maby it's the chipest F2P i've been see ! you do not have to play several frame , juste choose the one you love !

but how do we know the  one we love with out trying it out? like I have said in another thread there should be a function in the game where to can try out all the warframes so you know which one to go for this can also be applied to Wepons.

[Acyl]

i can't stand people complaining that they cannot acquire slots in-game. buy it, for god's sake. i'm waiting till i get my four euros into moneybookers and account and doing it. it doesn't cost much. in no country is that price big. come on, guys.

 

Yeah, well, I sympathise with the people who want some way of unlocking slots in-game. It's understandable.

 

At the same time, I think having warframe/weapon slots be pay items was a clever choice. It means totally free players can certainly equal the power level of a paying player. But the person who's paid money will have more choices and more stuff. It's not Pay2Win, it's Pay4Variety.

[Slorch]

yes pay to play people do have an advantage they can have all the weapon and warframe slots they want.

 

also WTF did they give use 50 plat? when NOTHING worth buying in the game will cost 10 plat? I say just give use the 40 plat and you can keep that extra 10 plat. or give use 52 plat so that the extra 12 is actually use full 

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

yes pay to play people do have an advantage they can have all the weapon and warframe slots they want.

 

also WTF did they give use 50 plat? when NOTHING worth buying in the game will cost 10 plat? I say just give use the 40 plat and you can keep that extra 10 plat. or give use 52 plat so that the extra 12 is actually use full 

 

Wow really?  It's not a big deal man and honestly isn't that just a fact of life?  Junk/fast food costs less than food at a nice restaurant.  A Ferrari costs more than a Toyota.  There's nothing wrong with this.  I suppose we should reduce ourselves to communism.  Then you may not even have a nice graphics card to play this free game on.

Edited April 18, 2013 by sushidubya

[Jeffrywinkles]

Yeah but then the devs would literally get no income from players who actually REALLY like this game.  Servers run on electricity, people need food and shelter, lives outside of making the game work, etc.

 

Wouldn't you feel good about buying the devs lunch for the countless hours you've spent being entertained by this game?

In the arms of the angel

Fly away from here

From this dark, cold hotel room

And the endlessness that you feel

You are pulled from the wreckage

Of your silent reverie

You're in the arms of the angel

May you find some comfort here

 

 

 

on a serious note, guilt tripping someone into buying/supporting is pretty sleazy.

on topic of the orokin's i feel with 30 mod slots you can do all the content currently

 

but im worried about how will they increase content difficulty while keeping the viability 

of non super charged warframes/weapons.

 

as it is currently the only reason i like to orokin weapons is simply because mod building

is infinitely more fun when you have that room to customize, with 30 you have absolutely no building room,

 

currently supercharged weapons are just way fun to mod because of mod capacity and unsupercharged weapons with polaritys are also good buy sadly alot of them come with no polaritys at all.

[VEightFreak427]

Been playing this game for quite some time now and I've noticed orokin BPs are really rare on alerts, with the possibility of 1 a week if you're awake. And with daily rewards bugging giving a shotgun box with 0 quantity I don't see me personally getting any from that. 

 

So, it seems to boil down to that paying members are essentially twice as powerful as free players. Is this not the case? 

 

I got a blueprint but then right after the servers went down and I lost it...

[Kantazo]

P2W what? Bragging rights? Better stats? really don't get it, I thought P2W was for PVP.

[Jeffrywinkles]

Wow really?  It's not a big deal man and honestly isn't that just a fact of life?  Junk/fast food costs less than a food a a nice restaurant.  A Ferrari costs more than a Toyota.  There's nothing wrong with this.  I suppose we should reduce ourselves to communism.  Then you may not even have a nice graphics card to play this free game on.

 

bravo man bravo, that was a silly statement and you know it lol, 

 

- i want a fair playing field in a video game

- WHAT YOU HATE AMERICA?!!!?!??!?!

[Slorch]

I still think you should be able to get 1 weapon slot or 1 warframe slot every 2 mastery levels

[Bennyworld]

As others have said - you can get them fairly commonly from alert missions, and anyhow - the devs have got to make money somehow !

Edited April 18, 2013 by Bennyworld

[arune]

Since many people commented on pay2win, I'll just answer without quoting anyone specific:

 

I define pay2win pretty loosely. Any way to gain an advantage with real money is pay2win. Whether its saving time a little time or gaining convenience, or an item that makes you unkillable and able to oneshot everything. It doesn't matter if its PvP, PvE. You can still compete in a coop game. You can even compete in a single player game, against yourself.

 

Now, I'm not saying this game is horrible with this, there's only 3 parts I dislike: potatoes, slots and the fact you don't get to choose your character. Those feel a little bit like holding a gun to your head "PAY ME NOW". For the longest time, I was dead sworn to not give them a dime for going with this extortion, even though I really really wanted some of the colors packs and helmets. I nearly dropped the game right at the start because I didn't give a F about playing any of the starter frames, but I somehow struggled to Loki rank 30 and got myself Trinity, at which point the game turned very interesting. Now I'm actually enjoying the game very much, and playing quite many of the frames (next under construction: Nyx and Ember)

 

Finally in the end, I did forgive DE for making the pay2win system, mostly due to their great communication with players. But I would have paid much sooner if this forcefeeding of platinum purchases was not happening.

 

And yes, there are many very very much worse offenders among free-to-play games, which unsurprisingly I refuse to touch even with a long stick.

 

Sorry about the overdramatization, I can't help myself. I know I'm a bit entitled, but that's just how I am. :P

[Dasmir]

-"OMG you can buy thing to be twice as powerfull ! FREAKING P2W GAME"

Calm down you can get them dropped.

 

-"NO NO NO NO I HAVE BAD LUCK 0 DROP CHANCE IN MY 3hr OF GAMEPLAY F**-/*- P2W GAME"

 

everytime when a random YELLS me in mah face "Premium Scrub"

 

Thx to the gods theres no pvp yet...

[ThrottleFox]

I have the opposite effect Desmir, people get excited when I'm on my Prime they 1st time the see one I guess.

 

I was the same arune, though I sold my Loki before he got to rank 4 and then bought Trinity and loved the game since, then bought more and more frames and then went and built my Loki again.

 

No one minds if you are a free player you can still get everything us paying players get, some of the paying players probably didn't go stupid with their plat like I did. Not paying just means you need to have to wait to get to use the item, if you pay, means you get it right away and its superchaged and you are also supporting some of the best Devs I've seen to help improve the game. This is beta still things might change up a little you never know

[Flaming_Snake]

Wow really? It's not a big deal man and honestly isn't that just a fact of life? Junk/fast food costs less than food at a nice restaurant. A Ferrari costs more than a Toyota. There's nothing wrong with this. I suppose we should reduce ourselves to communism. Then you may not even have a nice graphics card to play this free game on.

Ferrari costs more, but the Toyota will last 3 times as long. Bad comparison.

[Kantazo]

Ferrari costs more, but the Toyota will last 3 times as long. Bad comparison.

 

Plus the Toyota has a trunk vs Ferrari who has a cup holder.

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

Ferrari costs more, but the Toyota will last 3 times as long. Bad comparison.

 

I do own a Toyota FJ and am happy with mine.  Yet any numbnut would understand that comparison.  Perhaps an AudI then?  and read carefully I said a Ferrari costs more than a Toyota simply that, meaning it's a luxury item.  Just like the extra weapons.  

 

If someone level 30'd their starting warframe, skana weapon, and lato, simply by playing and using credits they would be quite powerful.  Platinum only allows people to skip the "grinding" and progress faster.

 

Even with all the platinum in the world if a player doesn't get better at the game they still won't be able to level up in Rank and get some of the more advanced weapons.

Edited April 18, 2013 by sushidubya

[Kantazo]

I do own a Toyota FJ and am happy with mine.  Yet any numbnut would understand that comparison.  Perhaps an AudI then?  and read carefully I said a Ferrari costs more than a Toyota simply that, meaning it's a luxury item.  Just like the extra weapons.  

 

If someone level 30'd their starting warframe, skana weapon, and lato, simply by playing and using credits they would be quite powerful.  Platinum only allows people to skip the "grinding" and progress faster.

 

Even with all the platinum in the world if a player doesn't get better at the game this still won't be able to level up in Rank and get some of the more advanced weapons.

 

You are looking at me, I cant get the rank up even if you get me a bazooka with unlimited ammo. LOL