Boltor Prime: Killing The Game?

[MirageKnight]

Thanks Kestral. Nice to see that someone else understands that as well.

 

I swear, most of the people that post on these forums are in dire need of a 12 week course on Critical Analysis and Ethics...

[notionphil]

I'll say it again: the BoltorP most definitely does not blow the Soma out of the water. It. Does. Not.

 

They're very comparable. If you think different, you think wrong. Period.

 

...

 

So what we have here are impressions fostered by misinformation and ignorance. It pretty much renders this thread useless.

 

1) The Boltor P blows the Soma out of the water for a newbie player.

 

Why? In the hands of a player who doesn't know about crit headshot modifier, or can't reliably get headshots....or a player without a full set of crit mods, Boltor P will grossly outmatch the Soma.

 

2) Since it's a MR2 weapon, the above description is quite likely to fit a large portion of the players who use it.

 

3) Again, since it's an MR2 weapon, its available to players far earlier than the MR6 Soma. This thread is about making it available later.

 

Soooo...basically, its 100% on target.

[(PSN)KestralSylver]

1) The Boltor P blows the Soma out of the water for a newbie player.

 

Why? In the hands of a player who doesn't know about crit headshot modifier, or can't reliably get headshots....or a player without a full set of crit mods, Boltor P will grossly outmatch the Soma.

 

2) Since it's a MR2 weapon, the above description is quite likely to fit a large portion of the players who use it.

 

3) Again, since it's an MR2 weapon, its available to players far earlier than the MR6 Soma. This thread is about making it available later.

 

Soooo...basically, its 100% on target.

One slight flaw in your rebuttal though (and it actually helps your argument, for what it's worth) is that Boltor Prime doesn't have any MR. It's MR0 meaning you can hit up one of your friends to carry you through void missions and have that as your first non-MK1 weapon if you so choose. Not a shining example of balance in this game if you ask me.

Edited September 22, 2014 by (PS4)KestralSylver

[Mokkania]

I still personally think that it's pointless unless

-the power balance of mods is reworked (a bunch of things implied)

-all weapons get their proper mastery (latron prime youknow.)

 

 

hm, not completely pointless but kinda pointless, better than nothing maybe.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Mokkania

[notionphil]

One slight flaw in your rebuttal though (and it actually helps your argument, for what it's worth) is that Boltor Prime doesn't have any MR. It's MR0 meaning you can hit up one of your friends to carry you through void missions and have that as your first non-MK1 weapon if you so choose. Not a shining example of balance in this game if you ask me.

 

I was certain it was MR2. this is even worse, lol.

[(PSN)KestralSylver]

I was certain it was MR2. this is even worse, lol.

It can somewhat be considered an MR2 because that would be the earliest that a player could acquire it using their own means (trading for it).

 

Sad fact is, all you have to have is a high level friend who has a lot of void keys and a little luck to have the gun being built by the end of their first couple of days of playing. Frankly I'm shocked that people argue against this being a broken mechanic.

 

But Boltor Prime isn't the only offender here, any weapon attained through prime access is MR0 and that's just not right. It'd be fine if it was MR0 for the duration of the prime access it was attained through, but it needs to be given a legitimate MR after it's been discontinued.

 

A rework of the MR tiers is necessary for many new players' gaming longevity and enjoyment.

Edited September 22, 2014 by (PS4)KestralSylver

[Deccode]

I never considered myself a special case because of my choices and actions. That's something you did mate.

 

As I said before, name a few multiplayer coop/pve/pvp games that have a vast array of weaponry and still allow you to attain the most powerful weapons right after you complete the tutorial. If you're lucky it could even be within three missions.

 

Yes you did. You are the one forcing your believes into the game while ignoring the fact that other people may have other likes.

Oh you can't be serious with naming other games, right? Because I could just google "pay to win" games and it would give me bullcrap load of lists with games.

This isn't a matter of personal preference in play style like you're insinuating, it's a matter of balance of power and experience.

I never said nerfing the boltor prime or adding some mastery rank restriction to it is bad. I just said that the reason you keep throwing are laguhable.

And to be honest this is the first time I gotta agree with you on the quoted text above, I agree that the boltor prime does need a change when it comes to balancing. But reworking it because you feel sorry for other people they may not like the game and lose interest in it because they are OP from the beginning is trully hilarious. Why do you keep assuming imagianry stuff?

Edited September 22, 2014 by Deccode

[(PSN)KestralSylver]

Yes you did. You are the one forcing your believes into the game while ignoring the fact that other people may have other likes.

Oh you can't be serious with naming other games, right? Because I could just google "pay to win" games and it would give me bullcrap load of lists with games.

I never said nerfing the boltor prime or adding some mastery rank restriction to it is bad. I just said that the reason you keep throwing are laguhable.

And to be honest this is the first time I gotta agree with you on the quoted text above, I agree that the boltor prime does need a change when it comes to balancing. But reworking it because you feel sorry for other people they may not like the game and lose interest in it because they are OP from the beginning is trully hilarious. Why do you keep assuming imagianry stuff?

What beliefs have I forced in here? I only want weapons that are powerful to be reserved for more experienced players. Is that such a radical and fallacy riddled notion to you? I'm not even calling for nerfs like a lot of other players have been. And yeah, I'm absolutely serious, name some non-P2W games that utilize such mechanics. Go on. Do it. You can't say that Warframe is P2W since paying for a weapon doesn't bypass it's MR requirements. (Though we are treading on a fine line since Warframe has made their prime access weaponry MR0, which is something I'm opposed to.)

 

You sure do like misconstruing things, though, don't you? The only reason I've given as to why Boltor Prime needs to be MR restricted (which is still my only point in this thread) is that it is powerful (undeniable) and shouldn't be attained at the beginning of the game. Yes, that is a matter of opinion, but this is a forum where everyone's opinion is considered equal and is encouraged to be shared. I've said multiple times that it's not just Boltor Prime that needs to be restricted to a higher MR but that all the guns need to be re-tiered again. Some of them might not change but re-classifying them according to their base damage output certainly is a good start.

Edited September 22, 2014 by (PS4)KestralSylver

[LukeAura]

Yes you did. You are the one forcing your believes into the game while ignoring the fact that other people may have other likes.

Oh you can't be serious with naming other games, right? Because I could just google "pay to win" games and it would give me bullcrap load of lists with games.

I never said nerfing the boltor prime or adding some mastery rank restriction to it is bad. I just said that the reason you keep throwing are laguhable.

And to be honest this is the first time I gotta agree with you on the quoted text above, I agree that the boltor prime does need a change when it comes to balancing. But reworking it because you feel sorry for other people they may not like the game and lose interest in it because they are OP from the beginning is trully hilarious. Why do you keep assuming imagianry stuff?

Psychologically most people do not operate the way you claim you do. Give them something better than others, everything else looks worse by comparison. 

And you listed a bunch of the high tier weaponry/event ones as the ones you currently have, more you wanted because they are 'cool' or 'OP', and then all the rest, the ones that are more standard and are going to be a large chunk of the new player experience as junk and mastery fodder, so yeah, it reflects pretty heavily on you too any ways. You just don't realize it.

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

@the people bickering above

 

 

Is the Boltor Prime killing the game? Yes.

 

Should we care? No.

 

Let the new players leave the game after buying the Boltor Prime, they don't affect your gameplay at all. Warframe was supposed to be a 10 hour game anyway. They've had their 10 hours, why do you care if they leave the game? And DE? Well, they're going to be screwed anyway with the PWE deal, we're probably never going to see Update 16. Just enjoy the game while it lasts and move on.

[Mokkania]

Psychologically most people do not operate the way you claim you do. Give them something better than others, everything else looks worse by comparison.

I'd actually find it interesting to make an experiment on that because to me what you guys says is still too simplified ; but it'd need a number of conditions and a good sample.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Mokkania

[Seanjuju]

@the people bickering above

 

 

Is the Boltor Prime killing the game? Yes.

 

Should we care? No.

 

Let the new players leave the game after buying the Boltor Prime, they don't affect your gameplay at all. Warframe was supposed to be a 10 hour game anyway. They've had their 10 hours, why do you care if they leave the game? And DE? Well, they're going to be screwed anyway with the PWE deal, we're probably never going to see Update 16. Just enjoy the game while it lasts and move on.

Many games, usually p2p and b2p, forget that players are also content.

[Rakshal]

Agree wholeheartedly.

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

Many games, usually p2p and b2p, forget that players are also content.

And so they are. It's not like the Boltor Prime is making every single player leave simultaneously. There will still be veterans who stick around and the game will still have a sizable population if new players keep coming, even if they leave in 10 hours.

[Deccode]

What beliefs have I forced in here? I only want weapons that are powerful to be reserved for more experienced players. Is that such a radical and fallacy riddled notion to you? I'm not even calling for nerfs like a lot of other players have been. And yeah, I'm absolutely serious, name some non-P2W games that utilize such mechanics. Go on. Do it. You can't say that Warframe is P2W since paying for a weapon doesn't bypass it's MR requirements. (Though we are treading on a fine line since Warframe has made their prime access weaponry MR0, which is something I'm opposed to.)

 

You sure do like misconstruing things, though, don't you? The only reason I've given as to why Boltor Prime needs to be MR restricted (which is still my only point in this thread) is that it is powerful (undeniable) and shouldn't be attained at the beginning of the game. Yes, that is a matter of opinion, but this is a forum where everyone's opinion is considered equal and is encouraged to be shared. I've said multiple times that it's not just Boltor Prime that needs to be restricted to a higher MR but that all the guns need to be re-tiered again. Some of them might not change but re-classifying them according to their base damage output certainly is a good start.

I did not say warframe is pay to win dude you are consuming drugs now for real? I just said that in most p2w games you can unlock everything on the beginning and I'm misconstruing things. And that is not a reason it's a claim. The reason behind your claim was "because it kills the fun" and "because it's not balanced". I agree with your 2nd part but first one is funny dont you agree?

[_Fracture8]

It doesn't "destroy" my fun.

 

Come back to me in a month and say that... oh wait you probably won't be here

[LukeAura]

I'd actually find it interesting to make an experiment on that because to me what you guys says is still too simplified ; but it'd need a number of conditions and a good sample.

It's sort of readable here as an economic concept. And the market is essentially a macrocosm for the human mind, as it is the masses that influence the market. 
"Relative Value."  
"In Reality it is that most assets are valued on a relative basis. We look at how the market prices similar items... judged by a standardized variable."
 
http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~adamodar/New_Home_Page/littlebook/intrinsicvsrelative.htm
Just scroll down to the relative value part. 

Except we'd look at items at similar times of obtainability, as similar items. General power, as our standardized variables. Level of general desire is our 'price' that is influenced the general desire of other comparable items. The five bucks it costs to get the Boltor Prime should factor in here as part of the standardized variables, but I'm not sure it seems to have a significant effect or that its penalty compared to the general power is so small it just doesn't show up. It can be included, but it doesn't change what we're seeing in reality.  

Boltor Primes higher general power compared to other weapons, has created such a strong general level of desire, that it influences other weapons to be less desirable. If I understand the theory correctly, I'm not an economics student. 

[Deccode]

Come back to me in a month and say that... oh wait you probably won't be here

So if I tell you that I got some friends in the game who did the same you would probably be like "lier" or "omg they noob". Nice argument really.

[_Fracture8]

@the people bickering above

 

 

Is the Boltor Prime killing the game? Yes.

 

Should we care? No.

 

Let the new players leave the game after buying the Boltor Prime, they don't affect your gameplay at all. Warframe was supposed to be a 10 hour game anyway. They've had their 10 hours, why do you care if they leave the game? And DE? Well, they're going to be screwed anyway with the PWE deal, we're probably never going to see Update 16. Just enjoy the game while it lasts and move on.

We should care because this is EXTREMELY bad for business. Like wow how do you not understand that? People who spend 10 hours in a game are less likely to spend ANY sort of money in the game than person who spends 100 hours. Also you're relying on old knowledge with the PWE thing, that's pretty much been confirmed by Rebeeca Steve himself that they are merely an investor and will have no control over the development of Warframe.

 

Btw I'm not going to let my favourite game just die off, that's just lazy and really doesn't help anyone.

Edited September 23, 2014 by KilelrDrone492

[_Fracture8]

So if I tell you that I got some friends in the game who did the same you would probably be like "lier" or "omg they noob". Nice argument really.

Not at all, in fact I would be more likely to sympathise wiith you. And considering you were mainly against the entire thread and bickering with decent, solid arguments and opinions over the past 3 pages I assumed you were another Boltor Prime over-enthusiast. Do you actually have friends in the same scenario? If not, then your silly remark and entire post is invalid. If so, then I'm sorry, I should not have judged a book by it's cover.

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

We should care because this is EXTREMELY bad for business. Like wow how do you not understand that? People who spend 10 hours in a game are less likely to spend ANY sort of money in the game than person who spends 100 hours. Also you're relying on old knowledge with the PWE thing, that's pretty much been confirmed by Rebeeca herself that they are merely an investor and will have no control over the development of Warframe.

 

Btw I'm not going to let my favourite game just die off, that's just lazy and really doesn't help anyone.

You're not part of the company, why do you care what happens to them? All lazy capitalists deserve the same fate anyway, regardless of how talented they are. And people already did spend money on the game, the 5 dollars worth of plat they bought should give DE about the same amount of income mobile game companies. Where's the update on the PWE thing, I didn't see anything about it apart from Drew locking the megathread.

 

I lol'd at that part. You can't do anything about it. DE made the Boltor Prime, if it's a mistake then they're going to have to deal with the consequences. I've seen every single game I've ever played (and its company) die off, and spent countless hours in despair because of it. Then I learned to move on, and stop caring about the future of the goddamn game, because you're playing the game right now. And you're having fun. Right now.

[_Fracture8]

You're not part of the company, why do you care what happens to them? All lazy capitalists deserve the same fate anyway, regardless of how talented they are. And people already did spend money on the game, the 5 dollars worth of plat they bought should give DE about the same amount of income mobile game companies. Where's the update on the PWE thing, I didn't see anything about it apart from Drew locking the megathread.

 

I lol'd at that part. You can't do anything about it. DE made the Boltor Prime, if it's a mistake then they're going to have to deal with the consequences. I've seen every single game I've ever played (and its company) die off, and spent countless hours in despair because of it. Then I learned to move on, and stop caring about the future of the goddamn game, because you're playing the game right now. And you're having fun. Right now.

And I would like the opportunity to have more fun in the future, if thats not clear enough already. Just because people are trying to do whats best for the game doesn't give you the right to mock anyone. (Also its a mistake they can easily fix, read the suggestions in this thread for good examples on how to fix the BP's issue)

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/256374-re-warframe-shares-late-response-is-late/

Here's the statement by DESteve (not Rebecca but hey close enough)

Edited September 23, 2014 by KilelrDrone492

[Deccode]

Not at all, in fact I would be more likely to sympathise wiith you. And considering you were mainly against the entire thread and bickering with decent, solid arguments and opinions over the past 3 pages I assumed you were another Boltor Prime over-enthusiast. Do you actually have friends in the same scenario? If not, then your silly remark and entire post is invalid. If so, then I'm sorry, I should not have judged a book by it's cover.

Oh that's nice.

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

And I would like the opportunity to have more fun in the future, if thats not clear enough already. Just because people are trying to do whats best for the game doesn't give you the right to mock anyone.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/256374-re-warframe-shares-late-response-is-late/

Here's the statement by DESteve (not Rebecca but hey close enough)

That statement said absolutely nothing about what went on in the PWE deal and smelled of obvious PR manipulation. They basically said: "Yep, we're still going to be working on the game." (no indication of whether PWE would be allowed to tamper with the game, or how long the current developers going to keep working was given and "love" is meaningless) Also, the 40 days ended a long time ago. If nothing that they were afraid of telling the players happened, then wouldn't they have made another statement about it? Instead, the devs' response to people begging for another statement was locking the thread.

[_Fracture8]

That statement said absolutely nothing about what went on in the PWE deal and smelled of obvious PR manipulation. They basically said: "Yep, we're still going to be working on the game." (no indication of whether PWE would be allowed to tamper with the game, or how long the current developers going to keep working was given and "love" is meaningless) Also, the 40 days ended a long time ago. If nothing that they were afraid of telling the players happened, then wouldn't they have made another statement about it? Instead, the devs' response to people begging for another statement was locking the thread.

It was locked because of the amount of satiracle, non-productive, toxic hate that was spewing around the thread, not because they were ashamed. Also it's tied in legality so they really cannot disclose any business information.

 

That was the response to the megathread, not the megathread itself. I don't see anything too bad in regards to PWE's supposed "manipulation" in Warframe. Yet.

 

If you had any idea of the history of Warframe you would know that DE would NEVER sell off Warframe like they did to DarkSector (Their previous game).

 

Old DarkSector:

What was released after 3rd party meddling:

 

Theres a full blown interview around here in which Steve highlights the dissapointment of DarkSector's release, but I can't find it anywhere : /

Edited September 23, 2014 by KilelrDrone492