Possible Fix For Valkyr's Hysteria?

[Ronyn]

No, just on par with maxed out melee combat.

But what about the high damage dealing aspect of the berzerker theme?

That is just being left out of Valkyr's design at this time.

[Zyion]

But what about the high damage dealing aspect of the berzerker theme?

That is just being left out of Valkyr's design at this time.

 

Isn't that what we should be using Warcry for?

[Ronyn]

Isn't that what we should be using Warcry for?

Warcry is great for what it is, more speed certainly fits into the theme however it's not reliant on hysteria nor does it negate the existing concerns with hysteria.

 

Ok so in a nutshell....

Hysteria, in my understanding, is meant to represent the iconic "berzerker rage" moment.

Berzerker rage, (from Scandinavian histery to d&d to other games) is most commonly portrayed as a state that grants a person additional offensive and defensive power. 

 

My problem with Hysteria's current design it lasts along time, is heavily slanted toward defense, lacks in offense.

For the sake of balance, it cant have length, high damage and invulnerability all at once. Something has to give.

For the sake of gameplay depth, it shouldn't take away the need for interesting choices in how we approach enemies.

So my opinion is that it should be re-balanced. 

[Zyion]

Warcry is great for what it is, more speed certainly fits into the theme however it's not reliant on hysteria nor does it negate the existing concerns with hysteria.

 

Ok so in a nutshell....

Hysteria, in my understanding, is meant to represent the iconic "berzerker rage" moment.

Berzerker rage, (from Scandinavian histery to d&d to other games) is most commonly portrayed as a state that grants a person additional offensive and defensive power. 

 

My problem with Hysteria's current design it lasts along time, is heavily slanted toward defense, lacks in offense.

For the sake of balance, it cant have length, high damage and invulnerability all at once. Something has to give.

For the sake of gameplay depth, it shouldn't take away the need for interesting choices in how we approach enemies.

So my opinion is that it should be re-balanced. 

 

Well, I think a compromise then would be to have its duration based on how much damage you deal or how many enemies you down, and have a cooldown for after it is finished. The invulnerability will make it so that you don't have to worry about getting downed during it, and you would still have the aspect of having to deal damage to stay alive longer. And the cooldown would make it so that you can't have it active all the time, but the increased duration based on damage rewards the player for activating it at the right moment.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Zyion

[Ronyn]

Well, I think a compromise then would be to have it's duration based on how much damage you deal or how many enemies you down, and have a cooldown for after it is finished. The invulnerability will make it so that you don't have to worry about getting downed during it, and you would still have the aspect of having to deal damage to stay alive longer. And the cooldown would make it so that you can't have it active all the time, but the increased duration based on damage rewards the player for activating it at the right moment.

There is certainly some logic in that compromise.

 

Still have to ask though...

Why is it you want to not have to worry about being downed at all?

Being extra resilient, being able to wade through knock downs, being able to rush onto people....

all stuff I want to retain.

But full on being able to ignore all incoming damage seems bland. 

[Zyion]

There is certainly some logic in that compromise.

 

Still have to ask though...

Why is it you want to not have to worry about being downed at all?

Being extra resilient, being able to wade through knock downs, being able to rush onto people....

all stuff I want to retain.

But full on being able to ignore all incoming damage seems bland. 

 

If I have to worry about getting downed during the duration of Hysteria, I'm not focusing all my faculties on dealing as much damage as possible. Being invulnerable makes it so that all the time and effort I would have spent on staying alive instead focus on attacking as hard as I can.

 

Invulnerability isn't is a bad or boring mechanic as long as you try to find a way to make it interesting. Plenty of other games have done that. Halo had an invulnerability mechanic that was amazing for taking out vehicles. Team Fortress 2 has one that is really great for doing big pushes. League of Legends has several, each with their own little quirks that makes them unique in how they are used.

 

Edit: Not to mention that the usefulness of damage reduction tends to fall off at higher levels, while invulnerability doesn't.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Zyion

[Ronyn]

If I have to worry about getting downed during the duration of Hysteria, I'm not focusing all my faculties on dealing as much damage as possible. Being invulnerable makes it so that all the time and effort I would have spent on staying alive instead focus on attacking as hard as I can.

Honestly I don't think there is enough depth to pure attack that it requires all of ones faculties.

It's like this, say you're running down a hallway and you see a heavy shooting a rocket at you.

I'd prefer that I at least have SOME reason to slide under it, roll out of the way, or jump over it to reach that heavy to rip his lungs out.

Just running headlong into the rocket because it does literally nothing to me feel cheap and mindless.

 

Invulnerability isn't is a bad or boring mechanic as long as you try to find a way to make it interesting. Plenty of other games have done that. Halo had an invulnerability mechanic that was amazing for taking out vehicles. Team Fortress 2 has one that is really great for doing big pushes. League of Legends has several, each with their own little quirks that makes them unique in how they are used.

I'm familiar with most of the games you mentioned as well as a few others that use invulnerability in some way..

Though in most (if not all) of those cases I recall invulnerability being either very short lived (only a couple seconds long) or its directional (like a sheild) or it has severe drawbacks (like you cant move while its active).

I'm not against invulnerability in every form, I'm against the way it has been used for Valkyrs hysteria.

[Azawarau]

Oh I read it, I just think that invulnerability fits the berserker theme better as it makes it so that Valkyr can shift her entire focus on dealing as much damage as possible without having to worry about getting downed. The current damage model the probably needs a bit more rework though as it tends to become useless at higher levels.

Assuming thats true it wouldnt change that she can be a berzerker perfectly without being invincible nor does it change that this is an MMO and complete invulnerability is bad for those

[LittleSober]

If Hysteria was to be reworked to add more armor, it wouldn't make sense.

With Steel Fiber maxed (1260 Armor) you get 80% damage mitigation. Try running into a group of high level enemies (50+) on Nightmare Mode like that, you'll be dead in a second.

If Hysteria were to buff Armor up to 2460 (2x Base Armor) you'd mitigate 90% of damage. With that, you'd still die while running into a group of high level enemies.

Maybe they could make it so while you're not attacking enemies you wont take damage, until you start attacking, then you'll take reduced damage.