Grakata

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Because I can kill enemies while running without breaking a stride and get through the missions with incredibly low rewards. In terms of rewards the vast majority of the missions are terrible. You do not even have to be very good to run through the game as long as you have rush. And even if you are just playing the game, as has been mentioned many times, you can use absolutely any weapon as long as it has mods. I don't know why this is so hard to grasp.

Mainly because it seems like it's missing the point of playing a game.

I don't know about you, but I play the game to... Play the game and have fun, not to rush through everything in three minutes ignoring the majority of enemies.

 

Seriously, I don't get it. How is running past your enemies and occasionally taking pot shots at them with a hek or whatever fun? I mean, I farmed Vor like everyone else and it was almost painful. It was so dull - and this primarily because it was a matter of rushing to the boss, killing him, then bailing. The rewards didn't make up for it in the least, but I did it because it was the only way to get enough credits to actually buy guns in a timely manner. Now that missions give decent rewards, why would anyone actually rush missions?

[Vanloth]

Why is this discussion?

 

If you like Grakata you will use it regardless of it's inferiority because maybe you have fun with it.

 

If you don't like it you stick to the generic fotm Hek or BV and ignore the new inferior gun.

 

We have choices.. so choose!

I don't get why you guys don't see the issue here. Defense is the mission that pays out best in terms of reward. Other missions are worthless unless you want materials, or they are an alert. Thus, in order to avoid tedium, weapons need to be somewhat well balanced so we have a strong pool of weapons to pick from. This issue is reflected in a lot of frames too. Over half the frames are completely worthless in defense because they don't have any utility. Right now if you aren't playing Nyx, Banshee, Trinity, Loki, or Frost, then you aren't really contributing as much as you should be to a defense mission.

 

 

 

 

Mainly because it seems like it's missing the point of playing a game.

I don't know about you, but I play the game to... Play the game and have fun, not to rush through everything in three minutes ignoring the majority of enemies.

It's almost like we have different methods of enjoying a game. That doesn't really change the fact that weapons need to be balanced out, though. Everyone knows defense has the best rewards, that's why the game mode is so popular, and that's why it's pretty much the only one that matters in terms of weapon selection since there are only two planets that go above level forty.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Vanloth

[Cpl_Facehugger]

We don't see the issue because we don't care about maximizing numbers on a spreadsheet. Rather, we care about maximizing fun. Which means, sometimes, running mediocre weapons and frames simply because they have interesting effects/sounds/whatevers.

[Vanloth]

We don't see the issue because we don't care about maximizing numbers on a spreadsheet. Rather, we care about maximizing fun. Which means, sometimes, running mediocre weapons and frames simply because they have interesting effects/sounds/whatevers.

Please stay on topic. We are discussing the viability of the weapon, not your method of enjoying the game. Just because you enjoy the game one way doesn't mean the weapons shouldn't be appropriately balanced. I think majority opinion is that most frames and weapons are completely overshadowed by a small handful of other ones. A lot of this stems from the large changes brought in by 7.0, which I think were overall better for the gameplay, but have kind of flipped the table in terms of balance.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Vanloth

[SerosterPrime]

We don't see the issue because we don't care about maximizing numbers on a spreadsheet. Rather, we care about maximizing fun. Which means, sometimes, running mediocre weapons and frames simply because they have interesting effects/sounds/whatevers.

 

That's great, but...

 

These numbers matter and as beta testers we should be providing this feedback to DE.  Because some new-ish player might craft the Grakata thinking IT'S GOING TO BE AWESOME and then find the performance lacklustre and stop playing. 

 

You don't have to care about maximizing numbers on a spreadsheet.  Even something as simple as "a level 15 Grakata is as good asa level 15 Braton" is important, even if that (at level 15) is not going to be used against top level enemies.

 

edited P.S. That isn't to say that the visceral satisfaction you or I get from using a weapon we like is unimportant.  I like the Paris, because I like seeing enemies getting thrown back and pinned to walls.  But I don't think that visceral satisfaction is enough to be really good game design.  Really good game design is going to deliver that AND balanced weapon effectiveness. 

Edited April 22, 2013 by Kempner

[Boxyninja]

I said level 40+ infested. You won't see those outside of defense missions. Go to xini, go to wave 10+ and see where your gun stacks. Everything early level is inadmissible because any weapon on good mods will kill better, and better guns will kill even faster. Hek is an overkill for everything up to lv 45 or so.

 

Everything that grakata can do, Gorgon, Latron, Hek, Akbolto, Boltor do better. That was the point.

 

but u do see level 40+ infested outside of defence missions.

Progression of events:

 

1. Mob decides something arbitrarily.

2. Ced disagrees.

3. Mob demands evidence.

4. Ced provides evidence.

5. Mob is severely offended that someone proves them wrong.

6. Mob drums out Ced and decides they're right anyway.

 

Goodness, this is like watching an honest person argue with Fox News anchors.

 

^this

It's a weapon that is easily outclassed in both efficiency, damage, burst, and cost by almost every other weapon in the game. Trying to argue that it does well against level thirty mobs is stupid since a crush would still be doing good damage at that point, and every other weapon you could compare it to is going to be overkill. The entire point of weapon scaling is that it does well against the super high level mobs. If it doesn't drop high level mobs well, then why would I use it?

or you can hinder ur self thus adding a harder challenge 

 

You do realize there are basically three mission types in this game that matter when it comes to weapon choice, correct? Defense gives you the most mods and experience, and usually the most materials as well. Alert missions hand out credits like they're candy, and boss missions drop materials and blueprints.

Arguing that you can use a mediocore weapon in rescue and do okay is a moot point, because you can use ANY weapon in those missions. I could run this game with a Lato and claim that the Lato was on par with the Akbolto, that doesn't mean I'm right.

I don't need to post proof to back my claims because many people have already done this, which is something you seem to be ignoring the existence of.

 

Also, your argument might be more compelling if you weren't so condescending to everyone who disagreed with you.

cuz skipping 80% of the game is useful to developers

 

I see my example went completely over your head.

 

As does every weapon in the game. Unless they release the cotton candy hammer, I think we are going to continue to get weapons that 'kill'.

 

The entire issue is that a gun that only costs 15,000 credits is on par, if not supremely better than a gun that costs significantly more. Your tests have all been on missions I could have run with nothing but my man mittens, they are not conclusive to the effectiveness of the weapon against high level defense missions. When a weapon is outclassed in every aspect by another weapon, that means the weapon is bad. As I have said, what is bad, and what isn't is subjective, but it's fairly obvious that the majority agrees this weapon needs some love. There needs to be a reason to use it, and currently there isn't one other than looks.

We want this gun to be good, and the fact that you seem to oppose buffing it, is baffling given the numbers.

 

 

 

This is legitimately gibberish, and I have no idea what you are attempting to convey with this paragraph.

hes arguing that the weapon isnt junk but its the the greatest ever

 

So when did Defense Missions become the be-all end-all final-say benchmark on a weapons viability in Warframe? I must have missed that memo.

^this

 

We're not allowed to choose if we want to be the best.

so what is everyone using a supercharged hek then? i doubt it. until warframe has contests to see how fast you can clear something or how long can you survive, there isnt a need to be the best unless ur some hardcore elite gamer which ur playing the wrong game to start with.

 

all in all the gun needs a little buff yes but it is not trash atm 

[mmSNAKE]

but u do see level 40+ infested outside of defence missions.

 

^this

or you can hinder ur self thus adding a harder challenge 

 

cuz skipping 80% of the game is useful to developers

 

hes arguing that the weapon isnt junk but its the the greatest ever

 

^this

 

so what is everyone using a supercharged hek then? i doubt it. until warframe has contests to see how fast you can clear something or how long can you survive, there isnt a need to be the best unless ur some hardcore elite gamer which ur playing the wrong game to start with.

 

all in all the gun needs a little buff yes but it is not trash atm 

 

Other than defense, you can run, or funnel enemies through tiles. In defense you can't. You have to hold your ground.

 

Weapon is trash compared to rest. I mean Braton outperforms it, it's cheaper and easier to get. Braton as is is a pretty meh, weapon. It serves as an early upgrade until you can get your hands on Boltor, Latron, Gorgon, Strun, Hek, Akbolto, Lex, Twin Vipers etc etc. So why would people bother crafting a gun that costs much more to make than Braton, have to wait for it and then get a weapon that performs less than something they can earn in 10 minutes.

[AscendantWyvern]

I don't want what happened to ME3 to happen to Warframe.

 

For those who didn't play ME3 multiplayer: They had a lot of different weapons to choose from, and added more over time. However, MANY of the guns were useless/overshadowed compared to a few powerful guns. There was an illusion of choice, but it really only broke down to choosing from about 15-20% of the existing weapons.

 

At the moment, while it isn't useless, it IS overshadowed by almost any other weapon.

 

This is my biggest concern when it comes to weapons like the Pangolin sword, Snipetron, and Grakata. The last thing I want in a game like this is to introduce a metagame where you "can" use other weapons, but specific weapons are the best to take in (Say, Hek, Akbolto, and Nyx with Chaos currently) and they wind up splitting the community into the "casuals" and the "tryhards" (These are not accurate terms, but terms coined by the opposite sides in my experience with this sort of situation)

[mmSNAKE]

It is extremely difficult to create proper sidegrades. Eventually once you run out of basic ideas it ends up like this: either the weapon is a gimmick, lower than standard OR the weapon is a complete upgrade, higher than standard.

 

I'm fine to have weapons being better or worse. I would actually prefer more weapons being xp locked so people have an incentive to earn that rank to get to use a better weapon. The weapon shouldn't be alpha and the omega (sort of like the Hek is now), but it should be better enough for the effort to pay off.

 

This isn't a simple problem though, because this directly affects difficulty of the game, and balancing how enemies are versus the player. It definitely needs more work, but one step at a time.

[Shaemhameforash]

What?

What I meant is that in my opinion- at a certain point- guns become less viable against infested, than melee. Especially if you're playing a stealth character. 

 

I'm sure a lot don't do things this way, but at that certain point I use weapons for utility(Slowing them down with elemental mods). This allows me to safely close distance, reduce the damage artifact or my team take and release charges with heavy weapon upon them. Why do that? Because with one charge I can hit several ancients. Someone mentioned that with 4-5 shots they can kill an ancient. With heavy melee you can kill two, possibly three Ancients with 3-4 charges. This however requires practice and being aware of your surroundings. Unless You're using Rhino- then it's just IS then charge charge charge charge :D

[Namacyst]

I don't get why you guys don't see the issue here. Defense is the mission that pays out best in terms of reward. Other missions are worthless unless you want materials, or they are an alert. Thus, in order to avoid tedium, weapons need to be somewhat well balanced so we have a strong pool of weapons to pick from. This issue is reflected in a lot of frames too. Over half the frames are completely worthless in defense because they don't have any utility. Right now if you aren't playing Nyx, Banshee, Trinity, Loki, or Frost, then you aren't really contributing as much as you should be to a defense mission.

 

 

 

 

It's almost like we have different methods of enjoying a game. That doesn't really change the fact that weapons need to be balanced out, though. Everyone knows defense has the best rewards, that's why the game mode is so popular, and that's why it's pretty much the only one that matters in terms of weapon selection since there are only two planets that go above level forty.

 

 

Weapons are balanced for all of us and not the people who play defense only and think Rhino & Ash are not contributing in Defense but Trinity is...which is a good thing because then the game would be a piece of S#&$ ^^

[Kitzun]

With the fire rate, isn't this gatakatakathingy a monotarget stunlocking machine with the Thunderclap mod ?

[Namacyst]

Last i heard stun got diminishing returns when coming from the same source repeatedly.

[ekht]

Add some polarities. That way, the gun can compensate its dmg output by having more maxed out mods? Gorgon has no polarities but does well with just a handful of maxed mods. This gun has too many flaws imo :/ 

Edited April 22, 2013 by elvin123456

[Dasmir]

Add some polarities. That way, the gun can compensate its dmg output by having more maxed out mods? Gorgon has no polarities but does well with just a handful of maxed mods. This gun has too many flaws imo :/ 

 

a V polarity and with 10 base damage should do the trick.

[V101]

as i sayd

[Spinner187]

save this for bolt weapons that take a bit of skill to actually use.

Funny, I quit using bolt weapons for the opposite reason.(the only exception is Paris)

[RainDreamer]

Rename the gun to GraDAKKA.

That is all it needs.

[Boxyninja]

Rename the gun to GraDAKKA.

That is all it needs.

we dont need orcs in warframe :)

[Vanloth]

Weapons are balanced for all of us and not the people who play defense only and think Rhino & Ash are not contributing in Defense but Trinity is...which is a good thing because then the game would be a piece of S#&$ ^^

You do know that Trinity's shield works on the cryopod, right?

[Namacyst]

You do know that Trinity's shield works on the cryopod, right?

 

Dead mobs dont hurt pod. Trinity bad at making stuff dead. Other frames with woosh-cc and boom-ae better.

[mmSNAKE]

Dead mobs dont hurt pod. Trinity bad at making stuff dead. Other frames with woosh-cc and boom-ae better.

 

Link+scindo/Gram. It's the same thing as Rhino with Iron Skin. As long as you watch your link, no reason you shouldn't be cleaving the faces off everything. When you get at higher waves, most of those big nuke abilities are useless due to large amount of ancients.

[Vanloth]

Dead mobs dont hurt pod. Trinity bad at making stuff dead. Other frames with woosh-cc and boom-ae better.

You do realize that at high level the only thing that will be killing mobs is weapons, right? The entire reason frames like that are bad is they DON'T have any utility and are just pure damage, which falls off when you are fighting high level ancients.

[Tyrian3k]

Can somebody close this? The thread is getting off topic already.

[Maldhyr]

Pretty bad gun mainly because of the spread. Make it tighter and it's useable.

 

Same thought here. A wee tad less spread would compensate a lot.

 

Having a lot of fun with this gun and tbh I bother less about the specifics and if gun X is better or not compared to Y. Sometimes I use the Boltor, another time my Hek and sometimes I just want to get in.... get the job done and get out... And then the little Grakata does a fine job.