In Game Death = Starting Over!

[Sepharoth]

Another point on the lose everything if you fail the mission that has been pointed out is that you died, so why should you get anything. But if you go by that idea, then when you die in the game, you should lose everything, all xp, all credits, all items, everything, and have to start over at the beginning. Right back at rank 1. Because hey you died right and that is what death means, starting over. No revives, just right back at the begiining of the game. Because that would be fair and if dieing in game is argued as fair to get nothing, then this is how the game should be made. You died so why should you get to keep anything you earned in the game. And since there are those that believe you shouldn't get anything for dieing then this is right up your alley. Of course even all of you wouldn't play a game like that because you are surely going to die at some point and you died, so right back to square one. That is fair according to your arguments. I just wonder how many people that think its fair as it is now would be here screaming at how unfair it is to have to go back to the beginning, losing everything, and starting over. And how long would you continue playing the game if it was like this.

Edited April 23, 2013 by Sepharoth

[TheTenthDoc]

I'd love "hardcore ARPG settings" Warframe as long as I got to pick any frame at level 1 and mods dropped more readily.

[RavenxAngel]

if you got to start over then it'd take out the purpose f the revives we get daily. and on top of that what if you keep doing and starting over again and again. it's get  boring and players would be getting frustrated

[Datasaur]

Man that sounds fantastic. Of course the game had to be designed around it but don't mock the awesome permadeath of rougelikes.

[Xtorma]

Only the Sith deal in absolutes. :D

[-Vondred-]

*facedesks.* .. ..  . This Op...

[Ced23Ric]

"By taking your argument to the extreme, I hope to ridicule it, in turn making your argument invalid. Play with me, person who disagrees with me."

- The OP.

 

"Nah."

- The community.

[Iraetus]

I thought for a moment that, when you fail a mission, you have an option to start over quickly but no, I see this thingy.

 

Nightmare Mode.

[Venarge]

Ok OP.

You actually try to make this system ridiculous.

Maybe you should have thought about this whole thread before writing it down.

Why should you loose mods/stuff you bring back home. Stuff that is safe.

The loosing thing makes sense since you die on th battlefield and cant take home your stuff...

But well. Another whining thread about the new system wont change anything :D

[Sepharoth]

Ok OP.

You actually try to make this system ridiculous.

Maybe you should have thought about this whole thread before writing it down.

Why should you loose mods/stuff you bring back home. Stuff that is safe.

The loosing thing makes sense since you die on th battlefield and cant take home your stuff...

But well. Another whining thread about the new system wont change anything :D

 

 

I wasn't trying to make the game ridiculous, that wasn't the point. If I wanted to make it ridiculous, I would have said if you died in game, you couldn't play the game anymore. That would have been riidiculous. And why should you lose mods/stuff you brought home, well duh, you died, you didn't make it home to reclaim any of it.

 

" Another whining thread about the new system wont change anything " -  I guess unless I agree with every change the devs make in the game I am just whining. Because by that statement, no one can come here and say anything about any changes made to the game unless of course we like the changes because if not then we will just be whining about it. Kind of thought that's what the forums were for. Guess I was wrong.

[Oz270]

I'm all for an Ironman Roguelike Permadeath mode!

[FrostWolf]

So you basically you don't like the fact that you know Failure means something

 

therefore, They should just jump the extreme spectrum and go for one of the fatalistical hard settings.

 

 

Seriously are some of you so spoiled on the fact that you use to farm Defense with little or no abandon cause hey it doesn't matter if we lose?

 

Your revives now have worth, you now have to think about actaul defending the objective to get your reward... and you can't do the Rely one on person to carry you through tactics

Edited April 23, 2013 by FrostWolf

[FARMVILLE]

THIS ISN'T REALM OF THE MAD GOD.

Ty.

[FARMVILLE]

I do agree that is is a little bonkers that you get tons of weapon exp when you die in-game and lose a mission though.

I also agree that it should have a better penalty system than just "let's try it a few more times with benefits." To some extent.

[Argoms]

The game isn't designed around this. Internet ninjas are not serious business.

[BoogieMan82]

Another point on the lose everything if you fail the mission that has been pointed out is that you died, so why should you get anything. But if you go by that idea, then when you die in the game, you should lose everything, all xp, all credits, all items, everything, and have to start over at the beginning. Right back at rank 1. Because hey you died right and that is what death means, starting over. No revives, just right back at the begiining of the game. Because that would be fair and if dieing in game is argued as fair to get nothing, then this is how the game should be made. You died so why should you get to keep anything you earned in the game. And since there are those that believe you shouldn't get anything for dieing then this is right up your alley. Of course even all of you wouldn't play a game like that because you are surely going to die at some point and you died, so right back to square one. That is fair according to your arguments. I just wonder how many people that think its fair as it is now would be here screaming at how unfair it is to have to go back to the beginning, losing everything, and starting over. And how long would you continue playing the game if it was like this.

I would LOVE playing the game like this!  You obviously have never played Eve-Online where exactly what you said happens and it has one of the most loyal playerbases of any gaming community.

Also, how do you know that your body isn't cloned somewhere to come back to life?  The dev's have kept a lot of the lore a secret and they have even said that.

Also... if you keep running out of revives... your are doing it wrong.  You may need to buy some plat and refill your revivies everyday...

[Tetsmeha]

I'd be totally ok with it if the game was a roguelike and had more roguelike options.

[Argoms]

Somewhat related: If our warframes clone eve-style, that would pretty much explain why we lose items yet keep experience, and can keep respawning even if we've apparently been brutally mauled to death.

[Soulfighter]

don't feed the trolls

[neKroMancer]

This argument again.

As butthurt as it sounds, this idea has merit. Perhaps after gaining certain rank, player would have a choice to attach certain frame with ironman/hardcore mode. Run out of revive and fail the mission, you lose that frame. However, there should be some advantages to such punishment. Guarantee increase in mod within the end of mission screen with better rare mod drop.

Risk vs Reward.

[Argoms]

This argument again.

As butthurt as it sounds, this idea has merit. Perhaps after gaining certain rank, player would have a choice to attach certain frame with ironman/hardcore mode. Run out of revive and fail the mission, you lose that frame. However, there should be some advantages to such punishment. Guarantee increase in mod within the end of mission screen with better rare mod drop.

Risk vs Reward.

Judging by the complaints from people losing in defense, I have a feeling every other failure is going to create another whine thread. The game right now seems to be based on the premise that you can't lose anything- only fail to gain it (and even then, people complain ¬_¬). Seems quite different from the original hardcore space bounty hunting I think was intended ages ago before development began, but it's still fun. 

[Azure_Kytia]

I think if we run out of revives and fail a mission, or even abort a mission in progress, then we should not come back. The reason for this is simple: The Lotus controls our lives. The hidden corporation, secret leader of the Tenno, should not see fit to restore to glory those who bring shame and failure to themselves.

 

So yeah. Requesting DE to:

 

a) Delete the WarFrame upon death with no revives or abortions; no exceptions. Death is self explanatory, Abortion. Well. You left your WarFrame behind on that Corpus ship, remember? Lost.

b) If the last owned WarFrame dies, You are no longer. Your account is removed from DE's active account systems and you cannot recreate an account with your name. You are such a failure that the Lotus does not even allow you to return.

c) If b) occurs and the account has had a platinum transaction applied (Founders/Outright Plat Purchases), make crazy laughter audible at the Login Screen. This laughter occurs until a new account is logged into (with a different name, obviously).

Edited April 24, 2013 by Azure_Kyte

[neKroMancer]

Judging by the complaints from people losing in defense, I have a feeling every other failure is going to create another whine thread. The game right now seems to be based on the premise that you can't lose anything- only fail to gain it (and even then, people complain ¬_¬). Seems quite different from the original hardcore space bounty hunting I think was intended ages ago before development began, but it's still fun.

Hardcore/Ironman mode is an aspect that create challenge within boundary of PvE game. However, many games don't have enough incentive to draw player into such endeavor. Diablo2 offered no benefit to hardcore mode at all (if you count having animation within character selection as benefit then, well, sure). Torchlight didn't offer any benefit too (afaik, it was a long time ago).

The idea of one life, one death is fun and realistic. However, many players in Warframe seem to have a bad time coping with the idea of losing that actually matter. Some of them even proposed a no-lose scenario.

Game without chance of defeat or defeat that actually has impact isn't a game at all, imo. However, the risk should be proportionate with the benefit.

[Argoms]

Hardcore/Ironman mode is an aspect that create challenge within boundary of PvE game. However, many games don't have enough incentive to draw player into such endeavor. Diablo2 offered no benefit to hardcore mode at all (if you count having animation within character selection as benefit then, well, sure). Torchlight didn't offer any benefit too (afaik, it was a long time ago).

The idea of one life, one death is fun and realistic. However, many players in Warframe seem to have a bad time coping with the idea of losing that actually matter. Some of them even proposed a no-lose scenario.

Game without chance of defeat or defeat that actually has impact isn't a game at all, imo. However, the risk should be proportionate with the benefit.

There's a very vocal minority against any sort of challenge or coordination, and hopefully they don't drown out any good ideas that get brought up about this.

 

Having said that, I think it's too early to try and figure out how a hardcore sort of mode would work. There's no real endgame content yet, and we're at a point where large portions of the game (eg. mods) can still be overhauled. Some mechanics like stealth and parkour seem like they'll be greatly expanded on before release (and could completely change our options). 

[Ryjeon]

I played a sort of hardcore mode for a bit. If I died I deleted all my mods and started from terminus, and had to travel via connected waypoints. It was a fun diversion, but it gets old. I prefer the collecting aspect of long-term rpgs, and can leave perma-death-roguelike play to the shorter session games like FTL and Binding of Isaac.

 

It was interesting not having access to all the warframe abilities though. So I made do with whatever abilities dropped and played the warframe/used the weapons that the mods I was finding best supported.

 

Stakes are nice. I like the new lose rewards on failure stakes.