So Disappointed With This Game

[Madotsuki]

Just a heads up, your english is kind incomprehensible to me due to bad grammar, so i may have understood some points wrong.

1. Stealth mechanics. Yes, the stealth is pretty bad. The moment one guy makes it to the control panel your stealth run is just over, go back to being rambo. The devs said they're going to work on it, and I hope they are. Theoretically, the enemies have you on their ship's radar, so they know your exact location. Maybe just give players the ability to shut down the alarm and radar, and keep enemies alerted and wary, but not zerg rush to your exact location from across the map unless the alarm is triggered again. There's a lot of potential for that idea.

2. Enemy spawning behaviour. Yes, the spawning can be BS at times. I could go on and on about how entire waves would spawn behind me in that deadend room i just cleared seconds ago, or even spawn IN SIGHT. As in, I can SEE them spawn on-screen. There's a funny story actually. Recently i was trying to stealth a Grineer mission, and i was sniping a bunch of Grineer in the next room with my Lex. You would think this was a good idea, right? WRONG. Every time I kill one, another respawns almost instantly in that room. I was WATCHING them materialize on-screen. I think i sniped a good 20-30 of these respawners before i gave up and just ran in, some jerk triggered the alarm and there goes my stealth run. The devs do have to take a look at this.

3. Map design. They really can't do much about this. This isn't an open-world game shooter, levels are mostly linear, with some offshoots that may or may not contain loot. Yes the objective marker wonks out every once in awhile, but I really don't think the linear-ness of the maps need to be changed.

I don't really have much of a problem soloing in this game. Maybe it's because I started playing before U6 and the game has changed for new players since then, and I'm sufficiently geared to solo now. Indeed the game does a bad job of scaling enemies to player number, or even enemy level. Having more players in any mission makes it objectively easier than with less players. A Mercury mission can have just as huge of a Lancer Zerg Swarm as an Earth mission. XP barely scales with enemy level at all. These are all legit problems that DE needs to look into.

Also, for all you readers of the thread. Yes, the OP's english isn't very good. Yes, he sounds angry and b*tchy throughout the post. Yes, some of the things he says makes no sense. But I have to admit, opinions like these are actually important for the developers. As a certain youtuber once said, "First impressions matter". If new players aren't captivated by the game immediately, why would they play further? Why SHOULD they play further? Don't diss a new player's complaints because "they haven't truly played the game".

 

Edit: What is up with the forum post encoding? Suddenly all these <p>s and   things...

Edited April 26, 2013 by Madotsuki

[securitywyrm]

I think what the OP wants is a more Metal Gear approach to stealth. Enemies all over the base start unalerted, and if one sets off an alert it only alerts in that particular area, meaning that you can clear out the area and move to the next and resume being 'stealthy.'

[Azure_Kytia]

Snip

 

Quite possibly the most constructive post in defense of someone who has had qualms with the game. I'm not sure who downvoted you but take my Green thumbs up as equalization.

 

In response to the OP, I believe a little research beforehand or during the game may have shed some light on some of the things you found problematic. If you didn't already notice, this game borrows from a number of different genres, and Randomly Generated "roguelike" Maps are one of the borrowed features. As has been previously stated, a lot of the mechanics currently are not fully explained, if at all. I believe DE is working on resolving this particular issue in time. Preferably sooner than later.

 

Stealth is another mechanic that is currently being worked on. Far from complete, there are no mechanics to downgrade an alert once it's been issued, and because of that, stealth gameplay can be much harder and frustrating. Disregarding that there are no points or incentives for doing so. Stealth will be developed further; The past few livestreams with the developers have been very telling as to what they plan on doing over the coming months.

 

The enemy spawning issue, I believe is a non-issue, however it stems from you not completely understanding the nature of this game. We are on a ship that is completely full of a given enemy type. When we clear out a room, we can reasonably assume that more troops will come out of the waxwork to come and try to defend their ship. Technically speaking however, enemies have a chance of spawning in the rooms adjacent to the one you are currently in. Cleared rooms can occasionally get more enemies spawned into them, as more come to defend their territory. The Tenno are a fearsome race, one which the Grineer despise with an intense passion. It is not unreasonable that a sole Tenno's existence would set the whole ship off, as you can generally see, the Tenno can easily wipe the floor with a hundred Grineer troops. 

 

Later down the line though, it would be good if the enemy alert system downgraded over a period of time.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

First big downside was map design.

The current way the maps are made are through randomise placing of room tiles. Imagine a jigsaw puzzle with each piece a room.

 

Every mission, the pieces are pieced up together via exit to entrance. Some room pieces have more than one door so as to allow piecing with other rooms through different doors and not just the same one all the time. When the door is not pieced to another room, it is usually locked. In other words, there usually is nothing behind the door.

 

I have however heard of key-farming or something where there is a key to unlock SOME of the locked doors.

 

I would like to assure you however that the valuable things to note in this game are actually the mods and resources.

 

Mods drop from killed enemies only and resources might drop from lockers and killed enemies.

 

Credits can be found in lockers but they are pathetically little compared to what you get at the end of the mission (you must reach extraction to get this) and what you need to craft items and buy stuff with.

 

Now we can come to the second downside (one maybe thinks this is good side but for me it is maybe the worst).

The stealth gameplay. As huge stealth and invisibility mechanic fan in the games I was so disappointed how poorly it was designed in this game. I know it is really hard to put into effect and balance and that not all like it but stealth could be nice way to play this game solo. I'd love to sneak silently to enemies and oneshot them from behind. Now there is no way to play game stealthy as if you make one little mistake whole map goes alert and enemies come endlessly. After you get spotted once you cant get back to shadows and hide behind objects because somehow all enemies seem to be a telepath and have some kinda ability to see through 10 walls and to 10 miles away. Even if i stealth with Loki after getting spotted and run to another room to become visible and start sneaking again. NOPE! Enemies still know exact point I am. Now the only way complete levels seems to be just rush through them. And there really should be alternative way to play this game for those who prefer stealth and playing solo over rushing with 4 man party. I really hope you keep patching stealth (in better way).

They are working on stealth gameplay if I'm not wrong. The issue you mentioned about enemies seemingly knowing where you are at all times is valid.

 

However, enemies are only alerted when someone presses the console after he sees you so kill him before he does so and you won't have to break stealth.

 

Also, please note the sound you make from your weapons.

 

I can assure you that at later levels rushing through enemies might get you killed too. Accuracy of enemies are not affected by movement.

 

 

Third flaw i kinda mentioned already but want to be more specific about. It is again bigger problem for solo players but good mechanic to make missions harder for groups. I'm talking about enemy spawning rate and locations. 

 

Enemies are always spawning once alerted except on Elimination missions.

 

This means the longer you take to finish the mission or linger around an area, the more likely you have to kill more enemies and eventually run out of ammo (assuming your weapons are not ammo-efficient).

 

 

Just in case you are not doing this,

 

When playing alone, please make sure you set the game mode to SOLO from ONLINE. It is just above the solar system map.

 

This is because an earlier patch made enemies spawn less in SOLO mode. Thus,playing an ONLINE mode mission alone is not playing SOLO.

Edited April 26, 2013 by OoKeNnEtHoO

[MyXmaN]

I remember playing DayZ and reading its forums. Approximately every fifth post was like this. Somebody didnt like something. Moreover, ppl demanded a REFUND for a free-to-play mod (dayz is a mod for arma2, which isnt free-to-play, still a lot of ppl bought it for dayz).

 

So, duh.

[stacey69]

I made a post called New accounts. Its about the first few hours of the game. Maybe have a look OP.

 

Also guys relax on the hate when people come to post. You lot are awful at the moment and Warframe is getting a reputation for having a bad community. If he didnt like the game and wants to make a post about it just let him vent. Some of what he said makes a lot of sense. When you all leveled your chars the game was a lot different then. Make a new account and play it back through as this guy did and use Loki aswell. Then read what he has said and you wont be half as harsh on him.

 

All this down voting for someone having an opinon thats a little emotional or something you dont agree with puts people off from coming here. Look how many View and how many Post. If you treat people like this they will only learn from you and become the same and they will probobly be bigger arseholes than you making you pale into the background and never be noticed again.

 

Chill out...

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

I made a post called New accounts. Its about the first few hours of the game. Maybe have a look OP.

 

Also guys relax on the hate when people come to post. You lot are awful at the moment and Warframe is getting a reputation for having a bad community. If he didnt like the game and wants to make a post about it just let him vent. Some of what he said makes a lot of sense. When you all leveled your chars the game was a lot different then. Make a new account and play it back through as this guy did and use Loki aswell. Then read what he has said and you wont be half as harsh on him.

 

All this down voting for someone having an opinon thats a little emotional or something you dont agree with puts people off from coming here. Look how many View and how many Post. If you treat people like this they will only learn from you and become the same and they will probobly be bigger arseholes than you making you pale into the background and never be noticed again.

 

Chill out...

Agreed and well said.

[Saint_Tan]

This OP is ridiculous.  Just go away. This game is not for you.

 

Warning: Defensive Rant Alert – Grineer inbound…

 

Point #1 – you’re on an uncharted enemy vessel/world.  So there are locked doors you encounter (that you were not expecting to be locked.)  A space ninja would break in, or move on to the next best solution.  And: Need you be reminded that there is ALWAYS a mini-map telling which way you need to go.  Stop complaining about inconvenience and enjoy the challenge.

 

Point #2 – playing stealth and “you make one little mistake (and the) whole map goes alert…”. Um yes.  Imagine you are on your home world’s military vessel.  An alarm is sounded about an intruder.  Would you forget about it 10 minutes later?  No.  Lame point, dude. You admitted yourself “one mistake”.  Mistakes have consequences.  Well, in warfare, one mistake will cost you.  If you’re looking for a sugar coated experience, go play chutes and ladders.  Developers, please don’t water down your great game for a whiners like this.  Not to mention, it’s not like the moment you get “spotted” it is game over.  The game continues.  You just now have to play a slightly different (dare a say, aggressive Ninja) style.  Different, but just as fun in my book.

 

Point #3 – it’s a PC game.  Enemies need to spawn from somewhere.  And we have all seen/experienced this ‘phenomena’ of computer generated enemies just ‘appearing’ from thin air at a spawn point.  Get over it.  And again – you triggered an alert – so now deal with the consequences. You think a vast ship the size of half the moon is going to house just a dozen or so soldiers to thwart you.  Get real.  There will be tons.  And if you don’t like having to deal with them (which for most of us = combat, which in turns = fun, and also = experience) then see above about other board games like Candy Land.

 

Heaven forbid there is an ounce of challenge.  If the whole game was a cake walk, you would be gripping about how this FREE game was way too easy and boring and not worth the time of day.

 

Sorry for the rant.  But I am really enjoying this game.  It is a Beta, so there is definitely room for improvement.  But this seems like such an invalid set of complaints.

 

Just my 2 cents. (worth about .5) Ha ha.

[Shaftronics]

I made a post called New accounts. Its about the first few hours of the game. Maybe have a look OP.

Also guys relax on the hate when people come to post. You lot are awful at the moment and Warframe is getting a reputation for having a bad community. If he didnt like the game and wants to make a post about it just let him vent. Some of what he said makes a lot of sense. When you all leveled your chars the game was a lot different then. Make a new account and play it back through as this guy did and use Loki aswell. Then read what he has said and you wont be half as harsh on him.

All this down voting for someone having an opinon thats a little emotional or something you dont agree with puts people off from coming here. Look how many View and how many Post. If you treat people like this they will only learn from you and become the same and they will probobly be bigger arseholes than you making you pale into the background and never be noticed again.

Chill out...

This is hilarious, coming from someone who was significantly so upset with DE's previous patch and made a rage thread about it.

[Saint_Tan]

Okay - Apologies to the OP.  I looked back over my post - and yes, I came offlike an A hole.  Sorry - tough day at work + a few beers = rant fest. 

 

I get it.  The game is lacking in a few areas (for you) and you wanted your voice to be heard.  I have done the same.  So, sorry.  I don't want to quelch anyone from posting about their comments (positive or negative) because a few of us respond as angry four year olds. 

 

So let me say (as 'adult-y' as I can) "I disagree with you."

 

There.  I feel better.  Peace and Love.

[Carcharias]

Wow dude, I gotta hand it to ya, when I don't like a game, I just stop playing and move on. You wrote a book ! Most of the points you made like the non existant stealth and the map have been covered. I would just like to point out that it seems to me in reading your post that you came to this game with expectations. Not really a good way to approach a game you've never played before. I also rolled Loki first, went all the way to about twenty five and decieded that I wanted a frame that actually used its power to damage the enemy, especially for playing solo, which is most of my play to date. So first, if you really Hate it that much, just go to the uninstal section of your PC and remove the game and move on with life, it is after all A GAME. If you've cooled off a bit and are still intrested I suggest adjusting your thinking. For now, abandon any and all thoughts of stealth. Grab a differnt warframe. Have fun kicking &amp;#&#33; and taking names. It's a F2P Beta, and compared to some other betas I've seen this one is actually pretty clean.

 

BTW, if you want a bigger map and the ability to go anywhere in a shooter platform, try the Firfall beta, but remember that game is still in it's beta too. (I think given as long as FF has been in beta it's probably just gonna stay that way :p)

Edited April 26, 2013 by Carcharias

[Scandroid]

Now, now, thats no way treating a long thought out opinion. While I agree there are some flaws in the system they are working on it.

I guess you didn't read the whole post did you because im just quoting his last line

[coincience]

I see my post got alot hate and differing opinions from my own. Which I understand as there is way less players who prefer "stealth" in this game than players who prefer to be godmode killers. I'm also glad to see how many agree with me for some points I stated and I hope you guys keep devs informed about things you want from this game.

As some of you stated my points are not valid because game is designed for co-op. And as i told in my first post, I am fully aware of that. But the game is giving you option to play solo and the game is also trying to give you option to play stealthy. (I know for sure that I am not onlyone around wanting to play this game solo and stealthy. And ofcourse I go and try to play the game the way I want to play it.) But what the game didn't told me: "it's gonna be sh*t if you try to play game that way". yes, I am disappointed with option that is given to me but (the option) is broken as little boy's bike with empty tires. So it is still fixable and I am waiting to see the progress devs have made when I come back to try this game later.

 

I am sorry for language in my first post as it is abit unreadable from some points. And as many of you can see, english isn't my first language.

I hope this thread got enough attention to devs to read and so on contribute development of the game in the way players want to.

I am probably going to make one more thread on offtopics later today, and ofcourse read comments on this thread. Thanks for all kinda opinions.

Edited April 26, 2013 by coincience

[Story4]

 

He does make some good points, but most of them will be ironed out as the game is still in beta. The most annoying problem is the enemy spawn locations, mostly because i just secured a room and after i went a bit further from it another enemy was standing in the door and because it was opened i actually saw the enemies spawn from an empty room 10 meters away... extremely annoying. 

I think it would be better to have some hatches that spawn enemies from some pods that come from space (which you can hack so that no more enemies will spawn from there). Or some dorm rooms/infestation pods etc. that can also be locked out by using a hacking mini-game in order to prevent more enemies from spawning.

[ASH_PRIME]

Nice NOVEL You just wrote...

anyone get past the first whiney sentence?

 

[rhoenix]

Nice NOVEL You just wrote...

anyone get past the first whiney sentence?

 

 

Everyone else in the thread so far has, yes.

[Strac_CRO]

Everyone else in the thread so far has, yes.

 

I just read the title (didn't read the wall of text)

[GrandMasterV]

No offence but this is still a Beta state hence there will be some bumps in the road.

 

Implementing stealth is not easy this game has to work in a certain way.

Recent addition since the 7.0 release.

 

Spawn rates are fine might even be more in groups of 4 in my book.

And you did not secure everything there locked doors on a ship.

Unless you sweep the whole ship/colony that will happen.

[Story4]

Spawn rates are fine might even be more in groups of 4 in my book.

And you did not secure everything there locked doors on a ship.

Unless you sweep the whole ship/colony that will happen.

Problem is that they spawn in adjacent rooms that were cleared 10 seconds before. I've actually seen enemies appearing out of nowhere when a mob was standing in a door so i could see them spawn.

[GrandMasterV]

Problem is that they spawn in adjacent rooms that were cleared 10 seconds before. I've actually seen enemies appearing out of nowhere when a mob was standing in a door so i could see them spawn.

pointing out a simple facts, most of those rooms got closed elevators/doors etc.

And that this strange way of spawning is a simulation of some sorts to that.

[Strac_CRO]

I installed HAWKEN free2play to try it, played it 30 mins. (+/-). I didn't like it so I uninstalled it. I didn't fell the need to go to forum and say I didn't like the game.

If you don't like WARFRAME and want more stealth, buy and play SPLINTER CELL (also there is game MGS-ninja Revenant or something)

[11.11.11]

Here's a thought: 

 

Because someone is disappointed with a game / book / movie you like - doesn't mean that it is a bad game / book / movie.

 

I've seen it in this thread and I see it time and time again. Someone says they didn't enjoy something, that the fanboys/girls leap on them, beating them with sticks of solid conviction. Angrily taking up arms in defence of thier coveted game. 

 

The thing is, it's OK for someone to not enjoy something you do. And even if their reasons seem a bit flimsy or weak to you, you're only being equally childish by going on the defensive. 

 

In this case, the OP has said that their disappointed in Warframe for several different reasons. One being the lack of "open-ness" to the maps, and the poor stealth gameplay. ANY warframe fan should know - that the maps are procedurally generated, so the kind of detailed alternative routes and hidden areas the OP asked for, arn't likely to happen. They'd also know that the poor stealth game play is indicative of the fact that DE were not initially focused on stealth content. It's only because of the feedback from their playerbase, who are eager to see such things put in - that there's been the addition of such things as the silent kills and the Paris, for stealth players.

 

In the end, the OP should realise that their dissappointment in the game - while perfectly valid - dosn't condemn the game as bad. Just not suited to them.

 

And we all should remember that, before we start taking offence at how much they're hating on our game. 

[Subzero42]

I installed HAWKEN free2play to try it, played it 30 mins. (+/-). I didn't like it so I uninstalled it. I didn't fell the need to go to forum and say I didn't like the game.

If you don't like WARFRAME and want more stealth, buy and play SPLINTER CELL (also there is game MGS-ninja Revenant or something)

What?!? hawken is awesome asdfdfdgjgnpgapdf....worthlessbabble. jk each person likes diffrent things. anyway Strac is right that that you don't have to complain about something you dont like about the game. a good forum discussion post would be nice . the stealth was a afterthought and is relatively new in warframe and they will improve it overtime. to each is own as i love both hawken and warframe. main point is that each game is different even if it is only by a slight bit.

Edited April 26, 2013 by Subzero42

[Foofmonger]

Problem is that they spawn in adjacent rooms that were cleared 10 seconds before. I've actually seen enemies appearing out of nowhere when a mob was standing in a door so i could see them spawn.

 

I still don't understand why people complain about having enough enemies to fight. Just because you clear a room doesn't mean that no new enemies should spawn at all ever. The spawn system is fine, and I can't fathom why people need to think that there should be less spawning or that once you clear a room it means it stays clear forever.

 

If anything, 99% of the time I wish more enemies would spawn.

[Urash]

I don't see why everyone is so defensive about this. I think every point this person made is at least valid, if not productive.

 

-One slip up and steath is over and you get to eat a bag of &#036;&amp;*^s for the rest of the mission. I'm all in favor of changing that.

 

-One route to take to get to the end, no alternatives. Don't tell me that doesn't irk you as being dumbed down sometimes. Think of the potential to explore if they made the maps a little more complex. You wouldn't actually have to give up stealth just because there's two minigunners standing back to back.

 

-The AI is kind of potato. Sometimes it'll just be one sawman running at you to his doom, but a full fledged assault team and they all pussy out behind cover and cry for mommy over the intercom. Doesn't help that they're all hive mind. I cut up one who decided to run headlong for the panel to lock down the doors, even though I'm standing in front of it, then suddenly the next one becomes overwhelmed with the urge to touch the shiny panel. I killed five people in a row all doing that and I didn't even have to move.

 

There really is room to improve and these are all valid points, so I don't think, "Lol you just don't understand this game," -which is still in beta and has an entire 100,000 credit item with the words "Stealth robot" stamped on it but started off not stealthing itself- is a valid answer. The game can and should change. I don't think the dev's vision was of a game where everyone buys Dual Heat Swords, Akboltos, and a Hek so they can all rush the boss then run to extraction.