Beta TEST (<- how?!) & why reset would be good

[AmmokK]

So, after getting more and more bored because there is nothing to do, i thought a bit about the game and my "duty" as tester, when suddenly a lightning hit me and i was like: How the hell am i supposed to test anything if i can only have 2 slots for warframes and for weapons not enough either?!

You want feedback? Bug reports? Useful information on frames and weapons?

Well, then it´s a great way to limit us to testing so few things. And an even greater move to make us actually pay to test, by the need to unlock additional slots!

If you are decent and want to step away from the average rip-off betas and want feedback from more than only the founders, you should unlock all those slots, as well as everything else you can´t obtain without Platinum.

In addition to that, every serious beta needs a reset, for several reasons.

Almost all of the players that are playing for 50h+ are "done" with the game. All bosses farmed while sleeping, rushing through missions

Even if you are going to offer a reset (you said you will be able to choose if you want one or not somewhere), most people will stick with their maxed chars anyway. Mainly because they would lose all weapons, mods, warframes and so on. So the few people restarting might get behind to their friends they made so far.

On the other hand, if you chose to stay highlevel, you will be lacking much content, because that is actually being created for us. Yet, you can´t enjoy - let´s say level 5 content - with a level 30 warframe. It´s just plain boring onehitting everything, no matter if there is new enviroment or the most clever AI ever created, you will still stare it to death. So these players might get bored extremely fast and you won´t be able to add new content for those highlevels fast enough to keep them staying.

So either way, a reset is a smart choice and for now, we could actually do what we are supposed to do: test things, search for exploits, try to crash the game and so on.

So long,

AmmokK

Edited January 13, 2013 by AmmokK

[Gaiters]

A reset would make me sad panda. I don't care if you're reset, just leave me be. :)

[Sikab]

A reset would make me sad panda. I don't care if you're reset, just leave me be. :)

Amen.

to the OP: Don't worry about the devs. They get enough data this way too.

you can help the most by funding them. 3 more days... 3 more days and i get my Shiny Master pack :)

Edited January 13, 2013 by Sikab

[Enfo]

There is absolutely no point in a reset in the middle of a beta

[Sikab]

There is absolutely no point in a reset in the middle of a beta

OP meant reset After the beta. Which will not happen unless something really goes wrong. That's what a Dev said.

Yep, we don't want to do account reset. We are warning in the unlikely event we have to. *If* that happens all Platinum is restored.

Things we are looking at:

-1-time optional reset when we open up

-Leaderboards ought to be reset

Edited January 13, 2013 by Sikab

[Comatose]

They might give us extended slots later when they need us to really test it out. For now, i reckon they are looking at their metrics to see what popular platinum purchases are, and how likely people will pay for extra slots.

[KGeddon]

There is absolutely no point in a reset in the middle of a beta

You misunderstand. He wants everything unlocked so he can play now for free.

[AmmokK]

you can help the most by funding them.

Hell no! I´m not gonna fund something i don´t even know where it´s going! For now (as i already mentioned in another thread), this isn´t worth more than any kickstarter wannabe project:

- we want to ...

- we do our best

- as fast as possible

- soon

A timeline? A set goal? Detailed information on milestones? Where is that information?

Will every mission have a single design? Every planet? What about customising? Cosmetics? More Warframes or planets?

We actually know nothing about this game and it´s goals and as it seems, the devs don´t neither - which is pretty sad for a beta!

Throwing money at devs for something that might never happen? Sorry, my money is too precious to do that. If you are counting on founders money just to be able to continue working (which i doubt actually!) you are doing it wrong. If you don´t need the money, then why offer purchases just yet anyway? Oo

[AlastorOni]

reset would annoy a lot of people, people got quite attached to their characters and stuff already.

[AmmokK]

You misunderstand. He wants everything unlocked so he can play now for free.

Well yeah, of course i want to play for free, it´s beta ffs. I shouldn´t be "forced" to PAY to HELP them create a better game. IF there is someone that should pay somebody, it´s them for granting them my precious time.

I really like contributing to alphas, betas or whatever name they might have. But especially in F2Ps, betas are an early income and the actual testing is just a minor sideeffect. When people rant about something, you just say "it´s beta". NO! If i actually pay for something, it´s got to be ready and done (not asking perfect, no game is perfect!).

reset would annoy a lot of people, people got quite attached to their characters and stuff already.

They shouldn´t care about people that are attached to to their warframes, they should care about people wanting to test! Any serious tester would know that everything can vanish from one moment to another.

Edited January 13, 2013 by AmmokK

[Sikab]

Well yeah, of course i want to play for free, it´s beta ffs. I shouldn´t be "forced" to PAY to HELP them create a better game. IF there is someone that should pay somebody, it´s them for granting them my precious time.

I really like contributing to alphas, betas or whatever name they might have. But especially in F2Ps, betas are an early income and the actual testing is just a minor sideeffect. When people rant about something, you just say "it´s beta". NO! If i actually pay for something, it´s got to be ready and done (not asking perfect, no game is perfect!).

They shouldn´t care about people that are attached to to their warframes, they should care about people wanting to test! Any serious tester would know that everything can vanish from one moment to another.

I think i'm gonna talk in most of the testers name now.

Thanks for wastign your "precious" time here. Now get out.

PS.: A lot of Betas follow this design. Planetside 2 Beta had this same model. You didn't got everything handed to you either. You had to farm for it.... even in beta. The horror... working for something... some1 call the doctor.

PPS.: Most of your questions has been answered by Devs, but rather use the Search and do some digging, you make a useless topic, demanding without any clue about the game. Good we had you. Now bye.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Sikab

[Evesoris]

Well yeah, of course i want to play for free, it´s beta ffs. I shouldn´t be "forced" to PAY to HELP them create a better game. IF there is someone that should pay somebody, it´s them for granting them my precious time.

I really like contributing to alphas, betas or whatever name they might have. But especially in F2Ps, betas are an early income and the actual testing is just a minor sideeffect. When people rant about something, you just say "it´s beta". NO! If i actually pay for something, it´s got to be ready and done (not asking perfect, no game is perfect!).

They shouldn´t care about people that are attached to to their warframes, they should care about people wanting to test! Any serious tester would know that everything can vanish from one moment to another.

Get rid of the ego and you might be taken seriously

[Ced23Ric]

This is a Free to Play game, with a cash shop. Opening all slots would distort the metrics on buyer's behaviour. Since DE honours price changes with Platinum refunds, there is no need for a reset from that angle. And since the cash shop is DE's primary way of making money on this, and the metrics on that are also part of the Beta, testing this under live conditions is prudent to future planning.

You can test, right now, every frame and weapon. There is not a single item in the game that has relevance that you cannot test. There is no rip-off, if all content is accessible, both by Founder's and unpaying testers.

As for a reset: It's irrelevant. People who can play this game eyes closed can play it eyes closed with any frame, regardless of level or mission. If your really think that there's is a massive difference, gameplay-wise, for rank 30 geared frames and rank 1 geared frames, there is a simple problem: more shields and health don't make you a better player, just give you a larger cushion for error. Avoiding the errors is what makes a good player stand out - and those who are good can easily play with frames and gear regardless of rank. For example, I leveled up all eight frames, in short time - and everytime I started a new frame, I gave him unranked gear, too, to maximize XP gain, until I ran out of gear to level. Didn't phase me much if we hit Mercury, Earth or Pluto. Playstyle remains the same - the margin for error is just slimer is all.

Resets will occurr for statistics, Tenno ranks, leaderboards and such. That is good. When this goes live, no one will take their insane beta stats (Volt Overload Energy Siphon Pluto, anyone?) into the released game. Nevertheless, after a few days of play, the same people will be up there. Their nature is merciless grind and playing the engine. They know already what they need to know to get there.

As for the entire "Why go Founder`s?" debate: Pointless. You either want to support this or you don't. Investing is a measure of risk. If you don't have the disposable income, don't. If you do and you like the concept, do. You have the place here to shape the game as it goes along. Write concise feedback, make inputs, find bugs. There is nothing sad about a Beta not having fleshed out direction. Instead, look at it as a dialog between customer and developer before the product is finalised.

I for one decided to put down about US$ 250 on this, because I want to see DE make this game work. Me and my friends have a lot of fun here. I bought Master for myself, Disciple for three friends and I got about a dozen people into this Beta. We come for fun, and fun we received. We help each other, because we are friends - and Warframe gives us a platform to enjoy our friendship.

If this isn't what you want, don't buy into it. No one is forcing anyone.

I think i'm gonna talk in most of the testers name now.

Thanks for wastign your "precious" time here. Now get out.

+1, Sikab. FULL ACK on that.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Ced23Ric

[Yutty]

last week after i got into beta i didn't want a reset. But now after a week or so I think a wipe would be a good idea since its the common practice in most beta. It really didn't take long at all to complete most of the missions that are available. The mods have been changed throughout and so has the drop. Good thing i stocked up on sword blueprints from bosses kinda feel back on ppl who missed out and now only have the chance from those ? marks.

Beta is beta

[KGeddon]

Keep in mind you are not a paid employee Amook. You got one of the many "closed beta" keys floating around. They don't owe you anything. In fact, you probably owe them seeing as how you've played all this time for free. So shoot off some actual legitimate bug reports(balance, meh. Opinions are plentiful, and you don't seem to have a good grasp on abstract thinking or systems)

[neKroMancer]

CBT is still bug-ridden and there's not enough content for players to test. I can count the time which I actually teamed up with other non-starter frames. I'm not really sure how they're going to have enough data to sort most of the bugs out. Players is the best tester since we have more playing hours than the dev can test play it for an entire year. Think about team of 50 people playing for 8 hours a day compare to 10,000 players play for 2-3 hours per day.

I'm thinking that the limited slot actually detriment the overall development progress. We can test limited content and there's no way the dev can test everything by thenselves. I'm not asking it to be free in the full game, just in CBT.

[[DE]Steve]

I appreciate the passion and really respect the desire for getting all bugs out if system.

I am paying and playing plenty of betas right now, so beta definitions are elastic. As was mentioned, you need beta to show you problems not just with bugs but with service and economy. This is an indie game and we have to be sure it can work. The Founders have made it possible to pull in additional people and make this game extraordinary.

And it's not just supporting players who have benefited from having the beta be as "real" as possible. There were significant changes (umm Pro?) that would not have been seriously considered if the stakes weren't high and milk was free.

I will make sure the beta weapon you get is totally sick and hope that you can understand how our beta is the way it is.

(And be civil to each other so I don't lock!)

[Sp1nKuro]

last week after i got into beta i didn't want a reset. But now after a week or so I think a wipe would be a good idea since its the common practice in most beta. It really didn't take long at all to complete most of the missions that are available. The mods have been changed throughout and so has the drop. Good thing i stocked up on sword blueprints from bosses kinda feel back on ppl who missed out and now only have the chance from those ? marks.

Beta is beta

There already was the one planned reset. Now it's essentially a "head start" for beta testers/keep testing things before it goes open beta.

If there is going to be a reset I would rather it be optional. I'm absolutely fine with a leaderboard reset on live, that would make complete sense. But I for one don't really want to lose all the stuff I've farmed for (warframes, rare weapons, etc).

Now, if they reset level across the board but I get to keep all my mods/items and just have levels reset I think I would be accepting of that. but that's iffy.

[eelektrik]

KGeddon, they need us more than you think. Go make an online-only game and only test internally and your launch will be a disaster, guaranteed. This is not a matter of playing free, we don't owe them anything for that because we provide a service they need. Beta testers provide them with more feedback and data than they can accumulate themselves, and in return we know we hopefully helped make a game we are enthusiastic about a better experience for future players. Those that get attached to their characters in beta and complain about a wipe, do not have the right mindset for beta testing and should refrain from signing up and taking up slots from those that want to help. Beta is a test, Beta is not a headstart.

Just because its free to play does not make the development process drastically different than retail online games. There will always be a period of testing, gradually adding more players to get more feedback from a wider variety of people before release, but when was the last time you saw a retail online game launch without doing a wipe at the end of beta? As far as I know, that has never happened.

So for those of you insulting the original poster for caring enough about the game to want to test more things to make it better, are completely missing the point of a beta. I agree with him that beta is not the time to charge your userbase for content, if you want to get as much testing on the game done as possible. You can(and I have seen this done in other free to play closed betas) test payment systems and more content by giving out game currency and regularly doing wipes. I personally did contribute through the founders program because I want to support the developer, but they would get more testing done if they unlocked more things for everyone and wiped later.

[KGeddon]

I appreciate the passion and really respect the desire for getting all bugs out if system.

I am paying and playing plenty of betas right now, so beta definitions are elastic. As was mentioned, you need beta to show you problems not just with bugs but with service and economy. This is an indie game and we have to be sure it can work. The Founders have made it possible to pull in additional people and make this game extraordinary.

And it's not just supporting players who have benefited from having the beta be as "real" as possible. There were significant changes (umm Pro?) that would not have been seriously considered if the stakes weren't high and milk was free.

I will make sure the beta weapon you get is totally sick and hope that you can understand how our beta is the way it is.

(And be civil to each other so I don't lock!)

....

O_o

Are you implying that in the future you will be making a milk related weapon?

[[DE]Steve]

Should have spoiler tagged?

[Sp1nKuro]

KGeddon, they need us more than you think. Go make an online-only game and only test internally and your launch will be a disaster, guaranteed. This is not a matter of playing free, we don't owe them anything for that because we provide a service they need. Beta testers provide them with more feedback and data than they can accumulate themselves, and in return we know we hopefully helped make a game we are enthusiastic about a better experience for future players. Those that get attached to their characters in beta and complain about a wipe, do not have the right mindset for beta testing and should refrain from signing up and taking up slots from those that want to help. Beta is a test, Beta is not a headstart.

Just because its free to play does not make the development process drastically different than retail online games. There will always be a period of testing, gradually adding more players to get more feedback from a wider variety of people before release, but when was the last time you saw a retail online game launch without doing a wipe at the end of beta? As far as I know, that has never happened.

So for those of you insulting the original poster for caring enough about the game to want to test more things to make it better, are completely missing the point of a beta. I agree with him that beta is not the time to charge your userbase for content, if you want to get as much testing on the game done as possible. You can(and I have seen this done in other free to play closed betas) test payment systems and more content by giving out game currency and regularly doing wipes. I personally did contribute through the founders program because I want to support the developer, but they would get more testing done if they unlocked more things for everyone and wiped later.

To name a few: TERA had no reset after Open Beta for paid players, Path of Exile has no reset after open beta, DotA2 is not going to have account resets when it's eventually released. Those are just recent ones I can think of.

Plus, even if it never happened before, why can't it happen ever? There is no issue with it, especially with a game like this which is PvE only as of now.

[AmmokK]

I appreciate the passion and really respect the desire for getting all bugs out if system.

I am paying and playing plenty of betas right now, so beta definitions are elastic. As was mentioned, you need beta to show you problems not just with bugs but with service and economy. This is an indie game and we have to be sure it can work. The Founders have made it possible to pull in additional people and make this game extraordinary.

And it's not just supporting players who have benefited from having the beta be as "real" as possible. There were significant changes (umm Pro?) that would not have been seriously considered if the stakes weren't high and milk was free.

I will make sure the beta weapon you get is totally sick and hope that you can understand how our beta is the way it is.

(And be civil to each other so I don't lock!)

Thanks for the heads-up that you actually DO need the funding during betas as a F2P developer. For what i know, most F2P devs not really rely on them, since they are either publishing their X. game or are not willing to take the risk of having to rely on abslotely unsure fundings which might or might not come.

Personally i like turtles betas and am always willing to improve the experience be adding my 2 cent to them. After a bit more than 10 years of participating, there is s strong trend to those betas like they are here and mostly by greedy companies, sometimes even charing money for a product that doesn´t get release after all, without a refund!

Luckily it seems you are really passionate about your game (yes, sadly there are exceptions to this in other companies) and, although some people are trying to cut my head off here, i am considering on investing a few bucks even way before there is even a planned releasedate anywhere.

But, as i stated in my first post here, i don´t even know where you want to take the game. Sure, there is a basic construct, a very decent one that is, still, far from "releaseable" and even with all bugs fixed, there is huge lack of ... many things! Therefor it would be great to at least know what milestones you have set yourself, so i don´t invest my money into something that may or not be something that offers the diversity and things i like (or maybe not). As no sane person would buy a car when he only got a shot at the wheels and liked them, i won´t pay for a game i just see a construct standing there.

That´s why i was asking for the possibility to do more testing, because after just a bit more than 50 hours, i´m done testing and a part of this feedback is already online. Got my warframe maxed, my weapons maxed and another 3 warframes building of which i can only test one, because there are only 2 slots. Sure, i could go ahead and delete my first one but then again, there is only a reset if you want to and well, since most people i play with consider NOT resetting, i guess i woon´t be neither, so: no deleting.

You may now continue ripping my head off, dear (part of the) community.

[Wiawyr]

Keep in mind you are not a paid employee Amook. You got one of the many "closed beta" keys floating around. They don't owe you anything. In fact, you probably owe them seeing as how you've played all this time for free.

But that's wrong. Do you not understand what beta testing and quality assurance entail? Besides, the game is going to "launch" as free to play.

[eelektrik]

To name a few: TERA had no reset after Open Beta for paid players, Path of Exile has no reset after open beta, DotA2 is not going to have account resets when it's eventually released. Those are just recent ones I can think of.

Plus, even if it never happened before, why can't it happen ever? There is no issue with it, especially with a game like this which is PvE only as of now.

Tera is the only one of those that was a retail game, and I was not aware that they did not wipe after Open Beta, but from what I am reading they did have a level cap of 32 during that time, so players could not reach max level during open beta. Path of Exile however is doing a wipe at the end of closed beta, which is the stage Warframe is currently in. DotA 2, does it even have any sort of persistent content between games? I haven't played it, but the typical MOBA formula involves leveling your hero from the start in each game, with everyone still starting on equal footing even if one player owns more heroes and cosmetic items. It doesn't really compare to any sort of RPG where someone would start at launch with a max level character and max level items.

I understand for free to play games, Open Beta is often sort of a soft release and there are expectations that once the public is let in that they should keep their progress, but before this game reachs that point there should be a wipe at the end of closed beta, which is what a lot of people are arguing against and whining about losing their progress from. They have made it clear that they currently have no plans for that, but I feel they should reconsider. I am seeing some others here on these forums that feel the same way I do. Either way, you can't please everyone.

Edited January 13, 2013 by eelektrik