Elemental Mods Are Too Good

[Gildemesh]

When I started playing Warframe, I thought elements would be like specializing yourself. You fight one kind of enemy poorly, and another more effectively. You even get a new kind of proc to sweeten the deal. After a while, though, I noticed that the damage boost granted by elemental mods were very powerful. In fact, I could completely ignore enemy resistances; my damage output was too high.

 

With the addition of the "event" mods combined with raw damage boosts (Serration, ect.), you can gain an extreme boost to DPS. I feel that elemental mods are part of the reason why Tenno mow down enemies so quickly. Shouldn't the damage boost from enemy weaknesses, combined with a special proc, be enough?

 

Sure, from event mods alone, you get a moderate 60% damage boost. But, when combined with the other event mods, and raw damage boosting, plus weaknesses, you become insanely powerful. 240% damage boost are common, and you can equip a catalyst to bolster this even further. The only thing that can take more than a single burst from a well-modded Burston Prime is a boss-type enemy. This should not be the case.

 

I propose that we remove the damage buff that elemental mods give, and make it so they only grant elemental types. I'm not sure what upgrading an elemental mod would do after that, but it could offer alternatives (X% chance to inflict an elemental proc).

 

It's a drastic change, but it would prevent enemies from being torn apart with a single click. Not to mention, this is only weapons.  It is still possible to stack on things like Sonar to get even more damage, but that would take power. Thus, the change would require more effort to kill a group of enemies, and prevent players from absolutely destroying an elite squad of militaristic space marines without even having to reload.

 

Also, when playing with other Tenno, you could plan to equip an element so you are able to take down different types of enemies that your team cannot (Teamwork!). The change would even give you a reason to avoid equipping elemental mods ("Maybe it's not worth having to deal with enemy resistances...") so players are well-rounded.

 

tl;dr Remove elemental damage boost, so it only determines the type of damage dealt. This avoids killing everything so quickly.

[CounterOne]

1. Dude bad Idea the DE's have yet to even add something in so players can make their own build style more effective.

 

2. We have no alternate damage booster. If we had one this would go by with no care what so ever but that is not the case.

 

3. Damage can be increased by other means yes but only the elemental mods actually increase the damage accurately enough to even matte in battle

 

4. Try going it at a T4 survival and see if it is possible to survive with out such mods.

 

If you can you are a real good player. If not well you are like the rest of the players who depend on the damage boost given by the elemental mods.

[Noabettiet]

So let me get this straight, despite there are other mods that are relatively more effective than elemental mods, you decided that they are far too strong, so they should not award no damage or have such role in Warframe.

 

Before anything, remember that the game was intended to be fast pasted, not tactical oriented. Meaning, that making every enemy out there a beef is not the way to go. 

 

And that in fact, slash/puncture and impact are elements too! And are recognized as such. Removing the damage elements provide would change more than what you assume it would.

 

----
For my actual opinion:

 

I think this idea was rushed and requires a bit more research and elaboration. But yes, overall damage mods reign king in weapon modding, but a system was built around it, so you can't just straight up ignore that and wish for they to remove it.

[CounterOne]

For my actual opinion:

 

I think this idea was rushed and requires a bit more research and elaboration. But yes, overall damage mods reign king in weapon modding, but a system was built around it, so you can't just straight up ignore that and wish for they to remove it.

You meant "them" right?

[fatpig84]

They are not too good. They are needed.

With the maps going up to level 40s now (Ceres and Pluto), they are largely needed. 

 

Also their IPS counterparts suck so hard.

Seriously it won't kill DE just to bump those up to 90% with a 9 point cost.

Those IPS already suck since they cannot rely on a weapon's base damage but the IPS factor it has.

 

That is bad enough as it is.

Edited November 21, 2014 by fatpig84

[quan256]

Don't remove them, adjust them and IPS mods.

[Gildemesh]

So let me get this straight, despite there are other mods that are relatively more effective than elemental mods, you decided that they are far too strong, so they should not award no damage or have such role in Warframe.

 

Before anything, remember that the game was intended to be fast pasted, not tactical oriented. Meaning, that making every enemy out there a beef is not the way to go. 

 

And that in fact, slash/puncture and impact are elements too! And are recognized as such. Removing the damage elements provide would change more than what you assume it would.

 

----

For my actual opinion:

 

I think this idea was rushed and requires a bit more research and elaboration. But yes, overall damage mods reign king in weapon modding, but a system was built around it, so you can't just straight up ignore that and wish for they to remove it.

 

1. Dude bad Idea the DE's have yet to even add something in so players can make their own build style more effective.

 

2. We have no alternate damage booster. If we had one this would go by with no care what so ever but that is not the case.

 

3. Damage can be increased by other means yes but only the elemental mods actually increase the damage accurately enough to even matte in battle

 

4. Try going it at a T4 survival and see if it is possible to survive with out such mods.

 

If you can you are a real good player. If not well you are like the rest of the players who depend on the damage boost given by the elemental mods.

 

You guys bring up some valid points. The damage system would need a lot of tweaking for this change to occur. Still, the game's not going to become any better when it's stagnant, right? I can't say my solution is the best, but it's a start, and we need some sort of limiter to our damage. At this point, we can take down entire armies in less than a minute. The game is fast-paced, but there's a difference between fast-paced and overwhelming.

 

If you were without your incredible damage output granted by mods, or you were out of power, the game would become slower, but . Naturally, you would take cover against a strong enemy team, and think what you can do next (or, at least, I would hope so). Restore shields, set down a Specter, run across a wall and try to get past them, ect.

 

The short time spent in cover gives players a breather from the 20+ enemies spraying down a hallway. Between the explosive rockets, fires, laser beams, and countless lens flares, at some point, I would figure that you'd have to take just a few seconds to recover. Reducing player damage would prevent the threat from being put down so quickly, forcing them to take cover. This is kind of a preference thing, I suppose, but at this point, I am literally doing front flips while shooting my gun in the air; I have essentially become Sonic the Hedgehog with a gun.

 

And no, I have not played T4 yet. I haven't obtained a key. I would assume that the enemy's durability isn't the problem, but their damage output, based on the current scaling system of Warframe. Higher tier enemies still drop like flies for me but deal massive damage, in my experience. Also, I'm yet to encounter mods significantly more effective than event mods (without a heavy economic investment of fusion cores...I'm looking at you, Serration)

Edited November 21, 2014 by Gildemesh

[CounterOne]

My final take on this is not that the elemental mods are to strong (referring to heat, ice, poison, and electricity) but that the main elements the guns come do not have good enough upgrade mods.

 

An easy fix would simply be increase the effective amount of damage boost from them.

 

1. take that 30% rifle slash and change it to 360% at max so that you don't feel cheated because the serration mod and element mods give more damage.

 

2. make it so the base damage mods work as add effect mods for guns that don't have it this could greatly increase damage and probally do something for this problem in long run.

[CounterOne]

You guys bring up some valid points. The damage system would need a lot of tweaking for this change to occur. Still, the game's not going to become any better when it's stagnant, right? I can't say my solution is the best, but it's a start, and we need some sort of limiter to our damage. At this point, we can take down entire armies in less than a minute. The game is fast-paced, but there's a difference between fast-paced and overwhelming.

 

We are the feared Tennos of the Galaxy because of our power.

 

If can't take out an army better yet fleets filled with ships holding an army each what good is have that kinda rep?

we would look like fools rather than fearsome opponents the Grineer feel so adamant to get ride of.

[Gildemesh]

My final take on this is not that the elemental mods are to strong (referring to heat, ice, poison, and electricity) but that the main elements the guns come do not have good enough upgrade mods.

 

An easy fix would simply be increase the effective amount of damage boost from them.

 

1. take that 30% rifle slash and change it to 360% at max so that you don't feel cheated because the serration mod and element mods give more damage.

 

2. make it so the base damage mods work as add effect mods for guns that don't have it this could greatly increase damage and probally do something for this problem in long run.

 

I don't think that first part is a good idea. You're boosting the base amount of damage your gun does, which is the measure of how much elemental damage you do at the moment. Increasing your slash, puncture, or impact damage with indirectly increase elemental damage. Granting 360% extra slash damage would cause a very massive fluctuation in DPS.

[Gildemesh]

We are the feared Tennos of the Galaxy because of our power.

 

If can't take out an army better yet fleets filled with ships holding an army each what good is have that kinda rep?

we would look like fools rather than fearsome opponents the Grineer feel so adamant to get ride of.

 

Isn't the Grineer also to be feared? According to the current story on the main site, we were awoken to prevent the Grineer from rising to power. I guess our circumstances have changed since then.

 

Are Tenno really to be feared if their power comes from their weapons and Warframes? From my limited understanding, you get Warframe powers from going to the void (and becoming infected?...) and coming out alive. Then they create a suit for you, and it allows you to use abilities.

 

If our power comes from our guns, blades, and suits, why are we to be feared, and not, say, the weapons? In the hands of a single Grineer marine, he could devastate the Tenno just as easily, right? I was under the impression that Tenno gained their reputation from skill, not equipment. Running on walls, avoiding shots, then descending onto the enemy, and finishing them. Stealthily stalking behind our foes, who are found dead the next day...

[CounterOne]

I don't think that first part is a good idea. You're boosting the base amount of damage your gun does, which is the measure of how much elemental damage you do at the moment. Increasing your slash, puncture, or impact damage with indirectly increase elemental damage. Granting 360% extra slash damage would cause a very massive fluctuation in DPS.

Dude this info is beyond wrong go check it yourself.

I know I have used a base damage increasing mod then put an elemental on after it does not increase the elemental one at all.

[Brimir]

Indeed.

Increasing Slash damage works like a Elemental mod in that it adds extra damage without technically affecting the weapon's base damage when it comes to calculating other Elemental damage.