Problem With Walls: Mesa Is Grindwall, Waitwall, Rng Wall

[Makya]

The moment that I learned about the concept of getting Mesa, I just bought her.

 

 

Alert Rng -> 3x Rush Farm -> Alert Rng -> 3x Rush Farm -> Alert Rng -> 3x Rush Farm -> Resource Key Craft Dump -> Boss Rng -> Repeat

Still better than how you used to have to get Banshee unless I am misremembering.. Having to go through defense of different tiers for a 4-5% drop chance at drop table C?

[Makya]

Pretty much this, however to put up with anymore of this kind of vile insult to quests..... I'd probably do the same.  Hell, even generic MMO quests are more bearable than Mesa's quest, and those are the lowest of the low to me-- until now.  That says something.

You mean NRG a raid boss to hope it drops a 1% quest item to start a chain of quests that require you to raid and kill certain things and get a RNG drop (which you can only kill once a week and wait for lockout to reset) to continue for 4-5 stages until you get your new weapon/armor/class?

[blasron]

today i got my first key.I gather a team of people 4 with each one having his own key (i proced to a key check and a screen shot to save my &#! in case of a runner). My result were system, helmet, helmet, chassie. i was lucky like hell to get her in 4 run, but how many people will be stuck grinding there &#! to have her. It's unacceptable.

[_Je_Suis_Bruxelles_]

My frist five runs.... FIVE FREAKING CHASSIES in a row .. God ,I'm so &!$$ed right now.

If DE was a person ,I would like him/her ..de...very uncomfortable.

 

I mean , do they have any idea what it takes to farm 5 keys?

 

 

Edit. I got the chassis number 8 .no trace of systems or helmet.

Edited December 6, 2014 by Mr.Cristian

[Davoodoo]

The fact that all nav coords invasions ive seen so far except one were long type, def, surv or mdef doesnt help at all. Even if i would like to help my clan get some extra keys i lose all enthusiasm when i notice it means 30mins off my life.

 

 

i believe it's called voting with your wallet  and buying her is tantamount  to  supporting  higher and higher grind walls 

 

the state  of the state is that  DE put profit before their players and alot of people saw the huge grind wall and just bought her , my worst if wiser self wonders -  will they do this again ?  

Ofc they gonna, enough ppl bought hydroid while still complaining so they made this now.

 

And voting with your wallet is what i believe ppl should do, if de wont get enough money they will need to make something to encourage ppl to spend their money, grindwalls dont work anymore?? maybe finally lower prices on plat and add incentives to purchases instead of punishing players for playing their game??

Ofc theres also possibility that de would just pull their support for the game, but is it really that bad?? it would be equal to saying "all we cared about is your money" which should be clear sign that it wasnt ever gonna get better.

 

Quests were meant to reduce grindwalls, at least thats what community hoped for, so take that as warning and dont cheer on top of hypetrain for void trader and other "awesome ideas to reduce grind".

Edited December 6, 2014 by Davoodoo

[akira_him]

Still better than how you used to have to get Banshee unless I am misremembering.. Having to go through defense of different tiers for a 4-5% drop chance at drop table C?

Banshee is totally grind-able, and it's on MY schedule

Mesa cannot

[Innocent_Flower]

Saw a nav point from an invasion today.

 

Thought "nah, I'm not doing this" 

[mrmburns]

Just wasted almost an hour doing this survival infestation to get a single mutalist nav coordinate. I somehow don't think this is worth the effort.

[DSpite]

But more posts makes the topic more visible. If I ignore him, he might use his functioning brain and stop helping us raise awareness!

 

Each run generates 1 nav per player, which means that all you have to do is play with a bunch of people - and hey, If someone like ME can play with others in this game, surely you can manage it too - and then after EACH nav drop, CRAFT A FRIGGING KEY and STILL have a nave left over for next time.

Edited December 7, 2014 by Haldos
Cleaning

[Davoodoo]

Each run generates 1 nav per player, which means that all you have to do is play with a bunch of people - and hey, If someone like ME can play with others in this game, surely you can manage it too - and then after EACH nav drop, CRAFT A FRIGGING KEY and STILL have a nave left over for next time.

Sure gr8, dont want to pay 20$ for something that many consider not worth it??

 

Bring 3 friends in, waste their time with 3 10 minute survival runs and everything for a chance at 1 out of 3 parts. Thats ofc if theres even nav invasion going on and all of your friends have time to do it.

 

Whether you can do something to get it easier/faster isnt even relevant here. What is relevant is the fact that de still continues to make grind harder instead of finally looking at their buisness model which was continously criticized as overpriced.

[tseng_]

This is too bad, everytime i enter to the game, i don't see any invasion with nav as a reward, or if there is one has like 10% left. I really hope DE really see this topic.

[Makya]

Banshee is totally grind-able, and it's on MY schedule

Mesa cannot

Would you prefer a chance at drop table C as the RNG grind or a wait grind of 3-6hrs to forge a accurate Mutalist nav core? I am not being an &#!, I am actually asking. Once I get an answer I'll pose up an option then on a topic and get reactions from such.

[Davoodoo]

Would you prefer a chance at drop table C as the RNG grind or a wait grind of 3-6hrs to forge a accurate Mutalist nav core? I am not being an !, I am actually asking. Once I get an answer I'll pose up an option then on a topic and get reactions from such.

I would honestly prefer alad to be a boss on eris.

Worked for all old frames and even oberon and valkyr

 

Whether i would prefer coords as rng on normal missions depends on drop chance, if its 80% i doubt anyone would complain about these, but still that wouldnt change the fact that you need key to attempt a boss which was complained about since nekros release.

[CaptainohCaptain]

I just came here to say that there is a wild concrete wall that makes you stuck in it, nullifying the progress of a whole mission.

[akira_him]

Would you prefer a chance at drop table C as the RNG grind or a wait grind of 3-6hrs to forge a accurate Mutalist nav core? I am not being an !, I am actually asking. Once I get an answer I'll pose up an option then on a topic and get reactions from such.

You missed the point, the nav acquirement system make players have to follow the schedule of the invasion RNG

I do not mind grinding, as long as I have control on it so it fits MY own schedule

 

Don't talk about Vauban, no matter how long it takes, it is always 3 missions, I don't mind waiting either

But waiting+RNG+grind, NO

This goes too far

[DSpite]

Sure gr8, dont want to pay 20$ for something that many consider not worth it??

 

Bring 3 friends in, waste their time with 3 10 minute survival runs and everything for a chance at 1 out of 3 parts. Thats ofc if theres even nav invasion going on and all of your friends have time to do it.

 

Whether you can do something to get it easier/faster isnt even relevant here. What is relevant is the fact that de still continues to make grind harder instead of finally looking at their buisness model which was continously criticized as overpriced.

 

Someone check my math:

 

Clan with 300 players, with only 100 online at right time each day at once, and alert once per day only, running for navs with a full team (4) will generate 100 navs per day, 700 per week. With 3 navs per key, that's 233 keys per week put together.

 

A full team running one key gets a part each, so if takes 10 runs to get all 3 parts per team, 23 Mesa's get assembled each week.

 

With a bad RNG scenario, a full clan of 300 people ends up with a free Mesa in 10 weeks, and that's using pretty bad numbers, as the "perfect run" would be (all Clan, perfect drops, etc) would be 700 keys/week, or 233 Mesa's per week.

 

The numbers become more stupid when you factor people with multiple accounts that can run the event multiple times, and taxi the alt's - which is probably why it's timed, and people do this on events to sell the "spares" for plat - to get something faster.

 

If DE waters it down any further so people can "game the mechanics" even more, they might as well stop putting things on the market.

 

Pretty sure a lot of people assembled a Mesa rather fast anyway with "trust" key sharing, and swapping a Prime part for a lone nav here and there, or from a mate. You only need 15 navs to make 5 keys, and 5 keys give a pretty good chance to get the 3 correct parts to get 4 Mesa's assembled. A handful of players with alt accounts will take 1-2 days to assemble a Mesa tops.

 

Pretty sure DE can do the same calculations.

 

How badly do you want your Mesa? How badly does DE want to slow that down to make some money on a brand new asset?

[Makya]

I would honestly prefer alad to be a boss on eris.

Worked for all old frames and even oberon and valkyr

 

Whether i would prefer coords as rng on normal missions depends on drop chance, if its 80% i doubt anyone would complain about these, but still that wouldnt change the fact that you need key to attempt a boss which was complained about since nekros release.

What was the complaint more about the key itself, the time to build the key to get access? I want to know so I can work out how to give it an option of close to 5-7+ days of work on average to unlock the new frame which is the theme with the more recent frames

 

You missed the point, the nav acquirement system make players have to follow the schedule of the invasion RNG

I do not mind grinding, as long as I have control on it so it fits MY own schedule

You missed my point. I was going to open a suggestion for alternate ways to get said nav cores, not just invasions. I was asking for what kind of grind you prefer (RNG or TIME) to flavor my answer.

[DSpite]

You missed the point, the nav acquirement system make players have to follow the schedule of the invasion RNG

I do not mind grinding, as long as I have control on it so it fits MY own schedule

 

Don't talk about Vauban, no matter how long it takes, it is always 3 missions, I don't mind waiting either

But waiting+RNG+grind, NO

This goes too far

 

You probably will be able to do just that, as all DE has to do is change frequency of missions, or run more then one at the same time, or just multiple per day. Simply screaming that something that is brand new, on the market for Plat, where DE is trying to make some money first, will not help anyone.

 

When the logs show that people stop buying her frequently, DE might even tie her to a planet.

 

Kubrow mechanics are totally different from the starting mechanics, as far as upkeep, freeing slots etc etc.

 

DE did not change them simply because people were screaming, they would of looked at logs and noticed they were not getting the numbers they expected, say, for people keeping them out of stasis, or how often they were getting killed in missions, etc etc, and adjusted.

 

Feel free to scream at DE over stuff, but I suggest you do from a tester point of view, not an angry customer point of view. We have no rights as customers, we never did.

[Davoodoo]

How badly do you want your Mesa? How badly does DE want to slow that down to make some money on a brand new asset?

How much does it &!$$es community?? alot it seems.

 

And if they are willing to put that money above making customer happy then surely we got something a reason to complain.

 

Btw its not me being a $&*^ because i want mesa, i got her on 2nd day within 3 runs, still seems pretty $&*&*#(%& to me.

 

 

What was the complaint more about the key itself, the time to build the key to get access? I want to know so I can work out how to give it an option of close to 5-7+ days of work on average to unlock the new frame which is the theme with the more recent frames

Why 5-7 days?? i should be able to go enjoy a new boss with some fun mechanics and get some reward out of it. Thats what fun time playing a game is for me.

 

If de wants to punish their players for actually playing then they might increase acquisition time even more, i wont support that and i surely wont pay a cent to support that.

 

Also they didnt seem to be doing that bad when bosses were actually at solar chart or they wouldnt keep it running for so long while still keeping it 1 of more popular free 2 play games.

Greed over gameplay is what i call here.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Davoodoo

[Makya]

How much does it &!$$es community?? alot it seems.

 

And if they are willing to put that money above making customer happy then surely we got something a reason to complain.

 

Btw its not me being a $&*^ because i want mesa, i got her on 2nd day within 3 runs, still seems pretty $&*&*#(%& to me.

Reactions like this makes me think DE will return to Limbo/Mirage style releases from now on. Time Walls with minor grind.

[Innocent_Flower]

The best games are the ones that cut the content that lessens the fun. 

[Makya]

The best games are the ones that cut the content that lessens the fun. 

Such as?

[DSpite]

How much does it &!$$es community?? alot it seems.

 

And if they are willing to put that money above making customer happy then surely we got something a reason to complain.

 

Btw its not me being a $&*^ because i want mesa, i got her on 2nd day within 3 runs, still seems pretty $&*&*#(%& to me.

 

All this means is that me and you are looking at it from different ends. I already had expected it to be a long process - to start anyway, while she's new - and just focused on playing the game as per normal, with Nav runs as "extra".

 

With all due respect, I once again state, we are not "customers".

 

8.    Warranty Disclaimer

TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, THE GAME AND ALL INFORMATION, CONTENT AND SERVICES CONTAINED THEREON ARE PROVIDED ON AN “AS IS” BASIS WITHOUT WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED. DIGITAL EXTREMES EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS ANY AND ALL WARRANTIES OF TITLE OR NON-INFRINGEMENT OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OTHER THAN THOSE WARRANTIES WHICH ARE INCAPABLE OF EXCLUSION, RESTRICTION OR MODIFICATION UNDER THE LAWS APPLICABLE TO THIS AGREEMENT. USE OF THE GAME IS AT YOUR SOLE RISK.

 

We have no rights, based on that, so no warranty of any type.

 

I'm pasting that there just to point out that we do not in fact have any rights to complain. We can complain, sure, but we would do that anyway.

 

RNG is nowhere near as bad as the other games I play. It just feels that way when you try and focus too much. How many hours you have here anyway? Do you have other games with as many hours? Borderlands for me is still REALLY high, but I was running it at LAN's every weekend for years while running a computer store, and for fun in my spare time.

[Davoodoo]

All this means is that me and you are looking at it from different ends. I already had expected it to be a long process - to start anyway, while she's new - and just focused on playing the game as per normal, with Nav runs as "extra".

 

With all due respect, I once again state, we are not "customers".

 

8.    Warranty Disclaimer

TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, THE GAME AND ALL INFORMATION, CONTENT AND SERVICES CONTAINED THEREON ARE PROVIDED ON AN “AS IS” BASIS WITHOUT WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED. DIGITAL EXTREMES EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS ANY AND ALL WARRANTIES OF TITLE OR NON-INFRINGEMENT OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OTHER THAN THOSE WARRANTIES WHICH ARE INCAPABLE OF EXCLUSION, RESTRICTION OR MODIFICATION UNDER THE LAWS APPLICABLE TO THIS AGREEMENT. USE OF THE GAME IS AT YOUR SOLE RISK.

 

We have no rights, based on that, so no warranty of any type.

 

I'm pasting that there just to point out that we do not in fact have any rights to complain. We can complain, sure, but we would do that anyway.

 

RNG is nowhere near as bad as the other games I play. It just feels that way when you try and focus too much. How many hours you have here anyway? Do you have other games with as many hours? Borderlands for me is still REALLY high, but I was running it at LAN's every weekend for years while running a computer store, and for fun in my spare time.

I am a customer, i paid money and received product, law of my country says so.

 

You can throw that end user agreement, no court here will accept that.

 

Whatever is accepted in america doesnt need to be accepted in europe.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Davoodoo

[DSpite]

Off topic, so sending as PM.

Edited December 8, 2014 by DSpite