Update 7.9.0: The Glaive

[Slayblaze]

Part of the problem is that both Hek and Gorgon used to be great all-purpose weapons that filled several roles at the same time, and now that aspect has been removed. It would be different if we could carry more weapons than 1 primary/1secondary/1melee, but with those arbitrary limitations in place having a primary that can do short/medium/long range competently is super-desirable. If we could carry 2 primaries instead of just 1 we wouldn't feel like we are being forced into making the tradeoffs in decisions of which to carry. But thanks to games like Halo (for one example of many) we're forced into this fake limitation of 1/1/1 (rifle/pistol/blade) when it doesn't have to be that way. Its a design decision.

 

Nerfs to a single weapon really hurt when that is the only weapon you're allowed to carry. Granted, in WF pistols are actually useful unlike most other shooters where they are just filler, but still having only 1 primary equippable at a time seems forced especially to us old-school shooter fans who grew up with games where you could carry an entire arsenal of weapons at the same time and switch between them at will and just blast away without even having to reload. Was it realistic? No, no, a thousand times no. Was it fun... pure unadulterated destructive bliss? Oh yes, it was.

 

Now, I'm not suggesting that Warframe should adopt Doom the weapon system of Doom II (the Super Shotgun(Hek) in Doom II used to be so awesome!) but Warframe doesn't have to be CoD/Battlefield/MoH level realistic either. Somewhere there is a happy medium and right now it is tending to the less-fun-more-realistic weapon model instead of erring on the side of fun, growing moreso with every nerf, little by little. I hope this patch is where that trend ends, and reverses itself in the future.

[Bakim0n0]

Think about it this way... you figure you'll get good penetration at 50 yards with a shotgun just against modern tactical armor?

[OffbeatNinja]

Given full-choke shotguns have an effective range nearer 40m, the Hek should have an effective range around 2.5x what it currently is at. .  The range was its selling point, it has the smallest clip of the 3, no polarity and requires rank 4 to unlock..

 

Pretty sure nobody is asking for it to be a sniper rifle, but the concept that all shotguns have to have an effective range similar to heavy melee is pretty silly,  Think about it, the Remington 870 has an effective range of close to 80ft on buck, the 11-48 a bit more than that too, and given the Hek is hardly standard, the SGT 1187 is probably the closest youll get to what it's like IRL

[PlusEighteen]

Shotguns and Gorgon are borked after this patch

Gorgon was nerfed to useless a while before this patch

[Unholyskacer]

Awsome i loved you're studios last game "Dark sector" and there i so much of that in this game 

[MilesCadre]

Think about it this way... you figure you'll get good penetration at 50 yards with a shotgun just against modern tactical armor?

Nope, but I cant mod my shotgun to do fire, ice, and shock damages. Your point?

 

Gorgon was nerfed to useless a while before this patch

idk I liked how it sat before this patch.

[arune]

I don't know what people are complaining about, Hek is just fine, in line with the other close-to-medium range weapons like Gram, Fragor and Scindo.

[Arrmon]

Thats sweet

[Izonami]

The Hek's effective (max) range needs to be around 35-50m with damage becoming 'minimal' at around 60-70m. It also needs a buff either in damage done, clip size, or reload size to distance itself a bit from the Strun.

 

This is how I see the shotguns working:

 

Strun

Low range (Up to 20-25m)

Very high damage

Medium fire rate

Medium clip (~6-8)

Medium reload (~1.5s)

 

Boar

Very low range (15-20m)

Medium damage

Very high fire rate

Very high clip (~20)

Very long reload (~3-4s)

 

Hek

Medium range (35-50m)

High damage

High fire rate

High clip (~12-14)

Long reload (~2.5s)

 

Thus the Strun would be good for reasonably close enemies and small groups. The Boar would be a (small) room clearer where raw damage is traded for a large clip and fast fire rate but balanced with a long reload. Finally the Hek would be the finesse weapon that doesn't hit quite as hard or shoot quite as fast but is very accurate from most distances and has noticeably less downtime than the other two. It wouldn't be 'super OP' but it would be good enough that it would win 'overall'.

[Izonami]

Also you should be able to make your Sentinel carry around a secondary primary weapon. Not only would it give you more choice in-mission, you'd also have more of a reason to care if your Sentinel died or not.

 

Oh, also, Sentinel only mods so it can stop stealing my rifle mods (though it's gonna suck leveling those new mods up..).

[Bakim0n0]

Nope, but I cant mod my shotgun to do fire, ice, and shock damages. Your point?

 

idk I liked how it sat before this patch.

You're not firing at space marines in heavy armor, robots and alien mutants either.

My point was even in just modern context shotguns aren't really effective for combat targets at 100m, more like 35-40m

[Bakim0n0]

Given full-choke shotguns have an effective range nearer 40m, the Hek should have an effective range around 2.5x what it currently is at. .  The range was its selling point, it has the smallest clip of the 3, no polarity and requires rank 4 to unlock..

 

Pretty sure nobody is asking for it to be a sniper rifle, but the concept that all shotguns have to have an effective range similar to heavy melee is pretty silly,  Think about it, the Remington 870 has an effective range of close to 80ft on buck, the 11-48 a bit more than that too, and given the Hek is hardly standard, the SGT 1187 is probably the closest youll get to what it's like IRL

Funny... I said that Hek should be effective around 30m and I got a ton of downvotes. You say the same thing and you get upvotes. ;)

I think DE needs to remove the upvote / downvote feature.

[Izonami]

But then how will we judge each other?

[BadlandsHyena]

Not sure how I feel about Glaive being part of the plat store and YET the only way to acquire it in BP form is to do alert missions.

 

It's the first of it's kind DE, not so sure this is a good move, but you're the experts.

Personally I'll just not put any more money in than I already have and wait for the BP.

 

(That and I want to reset more than anything because in the end, all my progress will count for naught. Might just take a break from Warframe for a few weeks or until Optional reset hits.)

 

Disclaimer: This isn't a hate post. 

[Bakim0n0]

The Hek's effective (max) range needs to be around 35-50m with damage becoming 'minimal' at around 60-70m. It also needs a buff either in damage done, clip size, or reload size to distance itself a bit from the Strun.

 

This is how I see the shotguns working:

 

Strun

Low range (Up to 20-25m)

Very high damage

Medium fire rate

Medium clip (~6-8)

Medium reload (~1.5s)

 

Boar

Very low range (15-20m)

Medium damage

Very high fire rate

Very high clip (~20)

Very long reload (~3-4s)

 

Hek

Medium range (35-50m)

High damage

High fire rate

High clip (~12-14)

Long reload (~2.5s)

 

Thus the Strun would be good for reasonably close enemies and small groups. The Boar would be a (small) room clearer where raw damage is traded for a large clip and fast fire rate but balanced with a long reload. Finally the Hek would be the finesse weapon that doesn't hit quite as hard or shoot quite as fast but is very accurate from most distances and has noticeably less downtime than the other two. It wouldn't be 'super OP' but it would be good enough that it would win 'overall'.

This would be good... if they gave a  boost to every other weapon in the game to compensate for shotguns being significantly more powerful.

IMO the game is easy as it stands and shotguns used to mow down targets at any range and still have very high damage potential at medium-close range.

I think all that really needs to happen is a slight adjustment to the damage fall-off range rather than a huge buff to shotguns.

Most of the time there isn't even 50 meters of distance between you and visible targets.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Bakim0n0

[Jalal76]

Tks Devs. Loving the fixes to Frost. I just put it on build in the foundry...three days...three long days.

 

Oh well. I can always while away the time, farming alerts for the Frost Aurora Helmet and that SWEET SWEET Glaive. 

[Izonami]

A smart F2P system will provide players with a headstart on getting items and such as well as giving them cool looking things that don't give them any additional strength/ability. No one should be able to 'pay to win' which, thankfully, Warframe does not do. Chances are they'll add a bunch of neat toys and things to buy with Platinum once the main game is more finished/expanded.

 

Right now, as a gamer, I'd be concerned on when new higher level content is coming so there is a sense of progression/growth again and less so worrying about getting a weapon that really won't change how you play the game much anyhow. Do I want the Glaive? Sure, of course. However, I know that it won't really add much of anything to the experience outside of the cool factor. I'd much rather hear more about Patch 8* and what new, more difficult things I can achieve!

 

Though I do hate to point out that there are at least a handful of bugs that have been in patch after patch (and reported, I'd assume) that I wish they'd hammer out. Not that I blame anyone or am particularly put out, but it is a bit disconcerting to see an issue for months and not have it fixed.

 

* The rate of information dissemination is somewhat low and it can be kind of disheartening to only hear about new things once in awhile. The new weapons and things are nice, don't get me wrong, but even that is starting to feel kind of unimportant. 

[Izonami]

This would be good... if they gave a  boost to every other weapon in the game to compensate for shotguns being significantly more powerful.

IMO the game is easy as it stands and shotguns used to mow down targets at any range and still have very high damage potential at medium-close range.

I think all that really needs to happen is a slight adjustment to the damage fall-off range rather than a huge buff to shotguns.

Most of the time there isn't even 50 meters of distance between you and visible targets.

 

I said in an earlier post that enemies should be redone so that they can be inherently strong against certain things. Like maybe one has a shield that can't be broken but only activates if hit by several things at once (such as several pellets). Thus you would need to use a weapon that shoots one bullet at a time (rifles/pistol) and thus you would NEED to switch. You could also have enemies that can heal small wounds very quickly but struggle to do with large ones (shotgun/melee/etc). While I do agree non-shotguns need to be buffed, at the same time there needs to be an actual forced reason to mix up your arsenal.

[PlusEighteen]

idk I liked how it sat before this patch.

Terrible spread + not having 400% multishot made it pretty useless to me

 

I'd say it would probably work better if it had some multishot by default and lower damage per bullet to compensate

At least then it would be interesting to use and work as a cone of death properly

 

Also it would be really interesting if we got a second set of mods that gave bigger bonuses than what we have now, but come with some sort of debuff to balance it out (ex. +150% fire damage -20% base damage) so we could specialize for real

As it is all you do is swap out an elemental damage based on what you're fighting and everything else is optimal for every occasion

[Darkius]

Great this game just keeps getting better Great work team!

[Kurou]

why not put glave bp in stalker some % chance  that conserve the rarity to obtain and is more fun ^_^

[MilesCadre]

Not sure how I feel about Glaive being part of the plat store and YET the only way to acquire it in BP form is to do alert missions.

 

It's the first of it's kind DE, not so sure this is a good move, but you're the experts.

Personally I'll just not put any more money in than I already have and wait for the BP.

 

(That and I want to reset more than anything because in the end, all my progress will count for naught. Might just take a break from Warframe for a few weeks or until Optional reset hits.)

 

Disclaimer: This isn't a hate post. 

isnt Heat Swords or some other weapon like this?

 

just curious and a tad bit lazy to do my own homework atm.

 

Terrible spread + not having 400% multishot made it pretty useless to me

 

I'd say it would probably work better if it had some multishot by default and lower damage per bullet to compensate

At least then it would be interesting to use and work as a cone of death properly

 

Also it would be really interesting if we got a second set of mods that gave bigger bonuses than what we have now, but come with some sort of debuff to balance it out (ex. +150% fire damage -20% base damage) so we could specialize for real

As it is all you do is swap out an elemental damage based on what you're fighting and everything else is optimal for every occasion

single shotting the gorgon before allowed it ot be a epic semi automatic HMG, and the high rof was gret against bosses or crowd control. I never used full auto unless I was point blank and I have yet to find a multishot mod for my rifles (grrr)

 

But yea, Gorgon was fine before this patch. I wish they woulda left it alone.

[Leyden]

+1

 

edit : another thing is now when we stop shooting for a brief moment the rotating speed doesn't change, that make the weapon a little more efficient ( still far far lamer than before )  but drag it away from a heavy machine gun mechanic , now ts more like a strange mk-braton.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Leyden

[SoulEchelon]

I've *repeatedly* tested it and shotguns still work just fine; you just can't snipe with them anymore. Getting many downvotes for pointing this out and not jumping on the bandwagon about how horrible the nerf was.

If people would spend as much energy actually testing as they would spewing negativity they would likely understand the changes aren't nearly as drastic as people are making it out to be; you just have to close range to within 15m

 

This.

[MilesCadre]

This.

Guess mid range is defined as 15m. I hate to think what long range is considered as =P

 

+1

 

edit : another thing is now when we stop shooting for a brief moment the rotating speed doesn't change, that make the weapon a little more efficient ( still far far lamer than before )  but drag it away from a heavy machine gun mechanic , now ts more like a strange mk-braton.

Except a mk Branton can actually hit its target.