No Glaive Blueprint? Fine, No Support From Me.

[Ageless_Emperion]

There are currently 53 weapons in this game.

Out of those 53, 4 are exclusive weapons.

This leaves a pool of 49 that every normal player has access to.

All 24 non-exclusive firearms can be either purchased directly or via blueprint at the Marketplace.

 

There are currently 25 non-exclusive melee weapons.

Out of 25, only 8 can be acquired only via alert missions.

Out of the remaining 17, one blueprint is laid in your lap for free: the Cronus, awarded for killing the boss of Tolstoj.

Out of the remaining 16, 2 are accessible via Marketplace or Alert missions only.

 

Out of these 2, one is making you quit supporting the game.

 

 

Just about sums up the level of how rediculous the response to this is,,,thank you kind sir.

[Vespoidian]

Isn't a potato more core to gameplay than a weapon? You have plenty of other weapons to choose from but everyone needs potatoes.

Yeah, I'd much prefer potatoes and weapon/frame slots being able to be purchased with credits rather than the newest weapons. In fact allowing cash users to be the early adopters of the newest equipment makes a lot of sense (that's how it works in the real world anyways). After a certain period of time (IE the next rotation of new stuff) the oldest of the unavailable stuff could then become available to the free users.

[Mir.]

You know what, there was nothing abhorrently wrong with the launch of Glaive. This community is at fault here.

Brave statement, care to explain?

[plznohurtme]

-snip-

And no one is saying they want all the items now. They are saying that earning the Glaive should be effort based rather than luck based. And stop insulting and assuming things about people, it's not conducive to debate and doesn't help anything.

You keep saying effort based... what is your definition effort based? In this game (so far) everything is time, luck, or pick the right frame based.  

Edited April 28, 2013 by plznohurtme

[Myo86]

and let me tell you again they can't if they don't have the resource in this case money to do it.. they probably don't generate the needed income which resulted in this decision

broken radio

 

to ageless_emperion maybe if u actually read my post you will find the point instead of randomly replying to my post and several others.

Edited April 28, 2013 by Myo86

[Xtorma]

ur point was that instead of focusing on making money they should cater to the playerbase 1st right?

The second often leads to the first in business.

[Story4]

There are currently 53 weapons in this game.

Out of those 53, 4 are exclusive weapons.

This leaves a pool of 49 that every normal player has access to.

All 24 non-exclusive firearms can be either purchased directly or via blueprint at the Marketplace.

 

There are currently 25 non-exclusive melee weapons.

Out of 25, only 8 can be acquired only via alert missions.

Out of the remaining 17, one blueprint is laid in your lap for free: the Cronus, awarded for killing the boss of Tolstoj.

Out of the remaining 16, 2 are accessible via Marketplace or Alert missions only.

 

Out of these 2, one is making you quit supporting the game.

 

 

Actually, a new player has access to only 8 weapons because for the rest he has to buy slots. Even if a player is able to get every weapon in the game, he will only be able to get 8 at a time, so it's not really 49 weapons that a player has access to, it's actually just 8, less than 20% the total weapons that he can acquire.

 

Hmm yeah misunderstood the post, sorry.

Edited April 28, 2013 by Story4

[Shizzuie]

I don't know if this has been said yet!

 

 

 

 

 

150p for 1 weapon?

 

thats 10 dollars for one virtual weapon!

 

 

Even though I do have the money to get it that doesnt mean I'm willing to spend a dollar poorly.

 

 

 

 

[Story4]

and let me tell you again they can't if they don't have the resource in this case money to do it.. they probably don't generate the needed income which resulted in this decision

 

A game shouldn't rely on a beta to make it's money, a beta should just be a way that warframe gets attention and a way to get some money to be sure that you won't have any financial problems. It should be more like a safety net than a requirement. Also Warframe being one of the most played games on steam, I think DE gets enough income for a game that isn't even released.

Edited April 28, 2013 by Story4

[GrimJr]

The second often leads to the first in business.

 

it does but also the way around you can't do the 2nd without the 1st

[GrimJr]

A game shouldn't rely on a beta to make it's money, a beta should just be a way that warframe gets attention and a way to get some money to be sure that you won't have any financial problems. It should be more like a safety net than a requirement. Also Warframe being one of the most played games on steam, I think DE gets enough income for a game that isn't even released.

 

just because it's one of the most played doesn't mean they get payed for every player out there among the 1 million accounts possible only about 10% are actually paying customers and the 90% they aren't really giving anything considering everything is available easily.. it's not about making money.. it's about having money to keep the game going.. in business there are quota's and when quota's aren't met business tends to go down

[Gestalt]

I don't see how that is true?

 

You mean to tell me that you would prefer to not play and watch twitter or something to let you know when alerts pop then just play and be told in game when they pop?

 

Odd that.

 

I personally don't.  I'm always logged on, customizing my warframes' colors (the dress-up part of the game lawl), doing every single alert that pops up, ? or not, doing solo runs here and there to test out new maneuvers (right now I'm addicted to the chainable slide-slash that you can do with the fang to move super fast; I know, I just got the fang and I never knew about this awesome move), trying to find the next weapon to max, and all the while frapsing a bunch of videos both solo and co-op to try to get a cool run where I/we pull off cool moves and do a great job to upload to youtube (most of it is junk and I delete; cus I'm BAD at this game).  

 

I do a LOT.

 

But it's not secret a LOT of people never log on except to get the daily reward and to do alerts with rewards they care about.  And that's no way to foster a healthy online community.  

 

 

I understand people want easier access to brand new items but frankly I don't have any issue with what they have done.  Of course I spent hours and hours and HOURS praying to the RNG gods back in my EQ days so this kind of thing does not faze me I guess.

 

 

And about the "easy access" part you seem to think people are clamouring for, let's just say, IF in the current system, the Glaive blueprint comes up on average once every two weeks.  Let's then say there are a total of 100 ?-alerts on average, during 2 week's time.  So, that's about 1% chance, again on average, for an ?-alert to give Glaive blueprint.  

 

What I'm saying is, how about we randomize the rewards for ?-alerts, so that it's random for each person.  Give each ?-alert 1% chance to drop the Glaive blueprint.  So then going by the statistics, you'll have a good chance of getting the bp if you've done as many as 100 ?-alerts (I know that's not how probabilities work; let's just go with that for the sake of argument).  The numbers can be tweaked.  It can be a 5% chance or a 0.5% chance, whatever.  I'm just saying, make the obtaining of a sought after item be based at least somewhat on how much effort you put into the game, and not whether you can play or not when an arbitrary alert happen to pop up.

[Myo86]

it does but also the way around you can't do the 2nd without the 1st

gonna give a perspective here. League of legends is pretty popular and is also free but jsut  an example let's say league of legend is in its beta phase and not yet a full release game and it just brought out a new hero on top of its small hero pool and has been much anticipated but they decided it can only be acquired through purchase with money. It be pretty f***ed up if u put it in that perspective.

 

Just giving a perspective.

[Worira]

It has nothing to do with easy access, though. In fact, the problem is, arguably, exactly that - you could get the Glaive by being lucky because you happened to be online when it spawned on a Terminus alert. The alert system has nothing to do with effort and everything to do with luck; if you're there, you're there, and if you're not... too bad, even if you've played every day and the other guy that got it played the game for one hour.

The alert system is not a system that should be used to introduce a new class of weapon, I feel.

 

 

Man, I'd be really annoyed if the Glaive was in a Terminus alert, since Terminus alerts are invariably broken.

[Xtorma]

just because it's one of the most played doesn't mean they get payed for every player out there among the 1 million accounts possible only about 10% are actually paying customers and the 90% they aren't really giving anything considering everything is available easily.. it's not about making money.. it's about having money to keep the game going.. in business there are quota's and when quota's aren't met business tends to go down

You cannot possibly know this. Where did you get your information?

[Story4]

just because it's one of the most played doesn't mean they get payed for every player out there among the 1 million accounts possible only about 10% are actually paying customers and the 90% they aren't really giving anything considering everything is available easily.. it's not about making money.. it's about having money to keep the game going.. in business there are quota's and when quota's aren't met business tends to go down

 

Free players are actually free advertising to get paying players into the game. Even if 10% are actually paying, if the other 90% weren't there then the total of paying people would have been much lower. I actually saw an article, but can't remember where it was, where a F2P game developer said that if the total paying players would exceed 20% it wouldn't be good because then a lot of F2P players would leave and by extension not advertise the game anymore or bring more friends to play it.

Edited April 28, 2013 by Story4

[Quetzhal]

Baseless assumptions? Do tell what they are.

This one:

 

drop the 10 dollars its worth and if you can't part with that pittance on a grame you obviously like

 

And this one:

 

Curb your damn need for instant gratification.

As I said, I bought the Glaive. You assumed I hadn't and was arguing for it to be easy to get because I wanted instant gratification. These are baseless assumptions.

 

Really, grow up and learn to deal with your emotions so you can make more reasonable posts even when your dissapointed.

Also, technically, this one. I have been quite reasonable in my posts and conceded the points that nullqasael made, among other points I feel are relevant; it does not change that the Glaive's release was mishandled, resulting in it letting down a lot of players. Those players are not me. However, I understand how they feel and feel that the system is unfair to them. That is an opinion.

If you feel my posts have been unreasonable, then clarify and tell me how.

 

Also as a side note just because you put money into the game it does not give you the magical gift of building a legitimate argument for the point your trying to make.

I did not say putting money into the game gives me a legitimate argument. Clarification:

 

if you can't part with that pittance on a grame you obviously like and crusade the forums of then you really have no right to talk about money grabbing or it being inaccessible. Curb your damn need for instant gratification.

By your logic, not spending money to buy the Glaive = not allowed to talk about the situation. I merely pointed out that your logic was self-defeating, as I had bought the Glaive, and by that line of logic, I am therefore allowed the right to talk about money grabbing or it being inaccessible.

Do I agree with your logic? Absolutely not. I dislike that sort of thinking. I simply found your wording humorous given the context of the situation. I personally do not make any distinction between free and paying players. Apparently, you do. On that note, free players are important to the survival of a game.

 

Those cool suggestions should be then taken to the suggestion forum instead of 34+ page rant thread.

They have been. nullqasael was kind enough to make a thread breaking down each opinion into something easier for DE to see, instead of them having to read through this thread. Do post there if you can distill your opinion into a short, logical summary. Without personal attacks.

I am still in this thread to correct the many assumptions people are making about the people who don't like the way the Glaive was released, and to try to stop things from coming to a boil. There is no need for anyone to throw insults at each other; I hope to calm things down by responding rationally to each post.

Finally, that response doesn't really address any of the points I made. The next one you made does, however, so I'll move on to that now.

[Quetzhal]

Perhaps the glaive is a unique case since it adds an interesting mechanic to melee combat that surpasses the limit of having to be up close to everything while you fight

Yes. Alert system is inadequate for such a weapon because it is gameplay changing.

 

but really, if the option was there EVERYONE would use it save for the people who prefer other weapons for their looks.

Debatable, but I don't think anyone against the alert system wants everyone to just get it easily. We're not arguing for it to just appear on the market for cheap and be easily buyable/craftable.

 

It has nothing to do with its placement in my opinion and everything to do with its function. Mind you its not a necessary weapon by any means.

My point was that the placement is not appropriate for the function, but not that the weapon should be easily accessible. It should be a weapon that can be worked for, and not necessarily easily. If they were implementing a story, I would suggest that the Glaive be locked from Platinum purchases and be made so that it is a melee weapon alternative obtained at a certain point through the story, perhaps after an especially tough boss fight. This, however, is clearly not feasible at this stage.

It's not that it's a necessary weapon, it's that a gameplay-changing weapon should be accessible through effort, as opposed to the alert system's randomness that could easily award a new player that just played Terminus and M Prime before an alert popped. Plus, the weapon does give you a significant advantage in Infestation missions. You need do nothing more than find a tall box to stand on in and have some patience in order to be able to clear virtually any room. =/

 

The item should have been given out to everyone because lets face it, people are too petty and impatient to wait for it. I also make statements towards others based on a very lengthy collection of experiences with online communities and the kind of statements people are making here and now, when people say things that are downright stupid I am not going play along.

In my opinion, it should be worked for. Plenty of suggestions in this thread and others, though DE will likely come up with a good solution on their own.

And to the guy who asked me my definition of effort, I am referring to playing the game extensively and beating the challenges it throws at you in order to obtain the reward you want. Grinding and farming is a fair way to handle it, if not ideal. For ideal solutions, look around: plenty of people have made suggestions.

This thread turned into constructive rather than destructive feedback many pages back. I'll appreciate if we try to keep it that way.

[Myo86]

Posted Today, 01:59 AM

Baseless assumptions? Do tell what they are.

This one:

 

drop the 10 dollars its worth and if you can't part with that pittance on a grame you obviously like

 

And this one:

 

Curb your damn need for instant gratification.

As I said, I bought the Glaive. You assumed I hadn't and was arguing for it to be easy to get because I wanted instant gratification. These are baseless assumptions.

 

Really, grow up and learn to deal with your emotions so you can make more reasonable posts even when your dissapointed.

Also, technically, this one. I have been quite reasonable in my posts and conceded the points that nullqasael made, among other points I feel are relevant; it does not change that the Glaive's release was mishandled, resulting in it letting down a lot of players. Those players are not me. However, I understand how they feel and feel that the system is unfair to them. That is an opinion.

If you feel my posts have been unreasonable, then clarify and tell me how.

 

Also as a side note just because you put money into the game it does not give you the magical gift of building a legitimate argument for the point your trying to make.

I did not say putting money into the game gives me a legitimate argument. Clarification:

 

if you can't part with that pittance on a grame you obviously like and crusade the forums of then you really have no right to talk about money grabbing or it being inaccessible. Curb your damn need for instant gratification.

By your logic, not spending money to buy the Glaive = not allowed to talk about the situation. I merely pointed out that your logic was self-defeating, as I had bought the Glaive, and by that line of logic, I am therefore allowed the right to talk about money grabbing or it being inaccessible.

Do I agree with your logic? Absolutely not. I dislike that sort of thinking. I simply found your wording humorous given the context of the situation. I personally do not make any distinction between free and paying players. Apparently, you do. On that note, free players are important to the survival of a game.

 

Those cool suggestions should be then taken to the suggestion forum instead of 34+ page rant thread.

They have been. nullqasael was kind enough to make a thread breaking down each opinion into something easier for DE to see, instead of them having to read through this thread. Do post there if you can distill your opinion into a short, logical summary. Without personal attacks.

I am still in this thread to correct the many assumptions people are making about the people who don't like the way the Glaive was released, and to try to stop things from coming to a boil. There is no need for anyone to throw insults at each other; I hope to calm things down by responding rationally to each post.

that's what im talking about, set that wanker straight

Edited April 28, 2013 by Myo86

[Gestalt]

I don't understand why so many people on this game think they're owed instant gratification. 

 

Many games wouldn't even add an alternate venue like Alert missions for acquisition of a cash shop weapon.  You'd buy your item or you'd do without it.  DE has at least given you options.  They're not obligated to give you free cash shop items, and they certainly aren't obligated to do it on YOUR time table.  Be glad we have Alert BPs at all.

 

I agree with this general sentiment, even though personally I'm not after instant gratification, and I think quite a lot of people who haven't paid a dime into this game aren't after that either.

 

If DE released the Glaive exclusively for platinum purchase, I'll personally be perfectly ok with that.  I know a lot of people will not be, since they will consider this Pay2Win and that is highly frowned upon (and I fully understand why they don't like this), but that's just me.  

 

A better alternative is to make the default Glaive craftable with credit, and make a more awesome looking one, or just a skin of it, for plat only.  Again, this beckons back to the Free2Play-Pay2LookAwesome model, which I'm sad to say DE hasn't been utilizing much.  Right now it's just a few poorly done color palettes and some helmets that actually effect gameplay.

 

The problem is that you are saying that them offering it as a random, arbitrary reward to ?-alerts is better than not offering it outside of platinum purchase.  This is false.  The Glaive will not be rare at all.  It will be owned by a large portion of the playerbase who just happen to be able to play when the alert pops up.  Those who miss the alert will feel even WORSE than if they knew it's only buyable with plat and they can't get it ever w/o paying.  By offering them through such an arbitrary and flawed alert system, they're actually creating annoyance among the players -- unnecessary annoyance.

[plznohurtme]

And to the guy who asked me my definition of effort, I am referring to playing the game extensively and beating the challenges it throws at you in order to obtain the reward you want. Grinding and farming is a fair way to handle it, if not ideal. For ideal solutions, look around: plenty of people have made suggestions.

So your definition of effort is playing the game for a period time and not failing?  I'm pretty sure that's what my point was earlier when I said "effort and time aren't the same thing" because you're literally saying that time and effort are the same thing.  If there was anything challenging currently in the game I'd agree with you wholeheartedly, but currently there simply isn't.  I play the game a lot so I have a lot of materials/credits and can easily make any weapon the day that it goes live so all I'm doing is reaping the rewards of having played the game, that isn't effort.

 

I've yet to see any solution (granted I stopped reading most of the thread at page 20) that doesn't involve being rewarded for just playing the game. It being an alert reward is only different in the fact that you cannot get it on your own time.

Edited April 28, 2013 by plznohurtme

[AngelGuardcc]

so much rage...

[CaligoIllioneus]

So your definition of effort is playing the game for a period time and not failing?  I'm pretty sure that's what my point was earlier when I said "effort and time aren't the same thing" because you're literally saying that time and effort are the same thing.  If there was anything challenging currently in the game I'd agree with you wholeheartedly, but currently there simply isn't.  I play the game a lot so I have a lot of materials/credits and can easily make any weapon the day that it goes live so all I'm doing is reaping the rewards of having played the game, that isn't effort.

 

I've yet to see any solution (granted I stopped reading most of the thread at page 20) that doesn't involve being rewarded for just playing the game. It being an alert reward is only different in the fact that you cannot get it on your own time.

 

Including a chance to get the BP in a high level tier of Endless Defense rewards would be a step in the right direction. It takes patience and focus to arrive to a very high wave and currently it's not worth it, for the rewards are the same. High defense waves are simply the most challenging thing we have in the game at the moment, since difficulty modes are not implemented yet.

 

There are two main problems with the alert system, both of them are very similar and connected to each other. The first one is that they are not fair. People are "rewarded" simply for being online at the time the alert whimsically decided to appear. Time, effort, or anything else goes out of the window - you're either online at that specific and brief moment in time or you're not. It's just dumb luck, thus unfair to good players who may have been sleeping or doing something else when they happened.  The second and most important issue is that you don't work towards alerts. There's nothing you can do about them, it's a passive thing, you don't feel like you're working towards a goal that you eventually accomplish: you're just waiting for the item to be freely given to you. This takes out the feeling of accomplishment...."wow I worked hard for that item and it finally dropped" trumps "I got lucky and the game decided to award me this item just because".

 

The Alert system does not need to be eliminated completely, currently I feel like it works for some items, like the other weapons, which are mainly aesthetic choices, skins, and the helmets which are also purely aesthetic (their gameplay effects are really small).

Making Alerts the main way of obtaining potatos and the Glaive BP, however, is just wrong, in my opinion.

Edited April 28, 2013 by CaligoIllioneus

[Gestalt]

I've yet to see any solution (granted I stopped reading most of the thread at page 20) that doesn't involve being rewarded for just playing the game. It being an alert reward is only different in the fact that you cannot get it on your own time.

 

Then it's simple.  Shall we suggest changing how the alert works?  Make the reward random for each individual player.  Give a low chance for any ?-alert to give the glaive bp.  Now you can get it on your own time! (albeit still through RNG)  At least then we move from being-able-to-play-at-the-right-time to being-able-to-keep-playing-for-a-small-chance.  It's an improvement imo.

[plznohurtme]

Including a chance to get the BP in a high level tier of Endless Defense rewards would be a step in the right direction. It takes patience and focus to arrive to a very high wave and currently it's not worth it, for the rewards are the same. High defense waves are simply the most challenging thing we have in the game at the moment, since difficulty modes are not implemented yet.

 

The Alert system does not need to be eliminated completely, currently I feel like it works for some items, like the other weapons, which are mainly aesthetic choices, skins, and the helmets which are also purely aesthetic (their gameplay effects are really small).

Making Alerts the main way of obtaining potatos and the Glaive BP, however, is just wrong, in my opinion.

 

1) While I think they should do that with all alert rewards even though currently it's not hard at all to get to so long as you have a Nyx, but I don't think that the glaive bp should be alone in this (not that you're saying it should be, just a statement regarding it).

 

2) I don't agree with your assessment regarding the glaive versus potato... one is required for maximum effectiveness and one is just another weapon.  Also a good chunk of the weapons have dramatic differences regarding charge damage (+50% damage or more, I don't call that "mainly aesthetic")... not to mention the helmets which increase range or damage on attacks which does make a noticeable difference.  There is no actual gameplay effect from the glaive other than it being "new and different".

 

Your opinion on the glaive is based on the fact that although it provides no actual difference to your ability to play the game it is different than other melee weapons with regards to mechanics so it's not fair that isn't only available via paying or alert.  I obviously disagree with this since I'm only concerned with my ability to play the game and so long as something is eventually available it's fine for me.  I will also note again that if they started doing this with all weapons I can easily see where this is a problem, but so long as it only happens every once in a while (we've had how many weapons since the last alert/plat only weapon was released) I don't see an issue.

 

Then it's simple.  Shall we suggest changing how the alert works?  Make the reward random for each individual player.  Give a low chance for any ?-alert to give the glaive bp.  Now you can get it on your own time! (albeit still through RNG)  At least then we move from being-able-to-play-at-the-right-time to being-able-to-keep-playing-for-a-small-chance.  It's an improvement imo.

So long as they put in some sort of algorithm where after getting something x number of times (let's say maybe 5) that it lowers your chance of getting that versus something else slightly (say maybe a 10% reduction in chance that it comes up) I think that would be an interesting way to change alerts, though they might need to increase frequency of ? alerts if it was rng per player.