No Glaive Blueprint? Fine, No Support From Me.

[Quetzhal]

 What position in the Industry? Don't say Nexon employee. Just keep it to yourself if Nexon was the answer. Better on both ends.

 

 Bad jokes aside, I'm real interested for you to actually come back and explain to me how you consider the fact that anything DE says wiill create Hype an 'assumption'.

 

 Because you might have your definition of the word mixed with 'fact' in that case.

 

 If DESteve mentioned that they briefly spoke about a gun that fires technicolor dildos and everyone at the office really liked it the next week or so would be littered with excitement about how fun it will be to violate the Grineer with it if it hits. 

 

 If DESteve mentions we are getting it soon? Yep. Hype train has no brakes. Now it is just when.

 

 

 

 All of this while DE sits back and watches the community. They can see the full spectrum of the hype train just fine both in-game and here on the forum. They should know how much hype they've generated.

I think the thing that nullqasael said that convinced me to give DE the benefit of the doubt (moreso than I already was, I mean) was the idea that it may have been last minute decision made by a financial team within DE that was entirely unaware of the hype. If that's the case, then I can at least understand how this whole situation came to be, even if I do think it could have been handled better.

[Avenwing]

Or, you think we aren't entitled to something, which we should be. It's only a matter of perspective.

They have given you a game to play for free, and just about everything is accessible without paying for it. They do not have to give you access to this game they created for free, but they have. Asking for anything more than that is being entitled and is NOT a matter of perspective.

[Staggered]

 It's sad seeing this game go the way of Tribes and Planetside. I really wanted it to make it big but after this we all know more weapons like the Glaive are going to come. Buy them day 1 for $10 or wait months for an alert to pop up amongst all the sniper scavengers... I'll probably unistall once I get my Banshee to level 30. I'm glad I only spent 20 euros for the colors and didn't get one of the more expensive founder packages. Such a pity this game...

Edited April 27, 2013 by Staggered

[nullCassielle]

I think the thing that nullqasael said that convinced me to give DE the benefit of the doubt (moreso than I already was, I mean) was the idea that it may have been last minute decision made by a financial team within DE that was entirely unaware of the hype. If that's the case, then I can at least understand how this whole situation came to be, even if I do think it could have been handled better.

 

 

The financial team would have been the ones preventing a rapid backpedaling in order to figure out what its the best course of action in the future.

 

The ones responsible for the availability tier would have been the lead designer and their team, who tend to be wayyy too busy to give a crap about hype or community or sleep.

[LegendairyWarframe]

When a player don't feel entitled to a game, to ingame items;

Then the player is not far from abandoning the game.

[CaligoIllioneus]

If you feel entitled to anything, you're really playing games wrong.

 

If you don't feel entitled to anything, you're living life wrong.

[cknives]

When a player don't feel entitled to a game, to ingame items;

Then the player is not far from abandoning the game.

This^^

 

You end up with a dead game if nobody wants anything from it.

Edited April 27, 2013 by cknives

[Sikab]

They have given you a game to play for free, and just about everything is accessible without paying for it. They do not have to give you access to this game they created for free, but they have. Asking for anything more than that is being entitled and is NOT a matter of perspective.

You are mistaking something.

 

DE did not create the game out of Charity and to be all cool just so "you can play it for free".

 

They need to make it so it appeal to us. I don't agree with their choice, I give me two cents about it.

 

They are a Company, I am a Consumer. We are not friends with DE. If they make a service I don't like, I have every right to make my opinion heard about it.

 

The "this game is free" is a false argument.

[LegendairyWarframe]

The financial team would have been the ones preventing a rapid backpedaling in order to figure out what its the best course of action in the future.

 

The ones responsible for the availability tier would have been the lead designer and their team, who tend to be wayyy too busy to give a crap about hype or community or sleep.

No one complained sentinel skins as plat only; only some trolls asking it to be ? alert reward, which I and most player base disagree.

And even more, players are also suggesting Dagger Axe skin, which is also pure cosmetic shouldn't be ? alert reward, it should be plat only.

 

Players are not greedy, when population mass forms, they have a very fine line of judgement of what is acceptable and what is not.

[Regentlord]

This patch leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I really love the game, and have the plat to buy the glaive... but ever since it was announced I saved up the suspected mats and credits.

[nullCassielle]

You are mistaking something.

 

DE did not create the game out of Charity and to be all cool just so "you can play it for free".

 

They need to make it so it appeal to us. I don't agree with their choice, I give me two cents about it.

 

They are a Company, I am a Consumer. We are not friends with DE. If they make a service I don't like, I have every right to make my opinion heard about it.

 

The "this game is free" is a false argument.

 

After this post, I can't argue with Sikab anymore. Not being he's being unreasonable or anything, but because he's the kind of (badly behaved) customer every company wants. He makes his opinions heard, offers solutions, and gives ZERO fucks. He is a true beta tester, and I've had to DIG for those guys before. He is someone DE should pay attention to, and it took THIS post to help me see that.

[Fezzul]

I just wanted to open a theard like that.

I am a free player but why blocking us?

we want to see what's the new wapone about and I didnt play dark sector and i want to see the glaive in action but i cant cues i get the BP ONLY FROM THE GODDAMM ALART!!!!!

why?

 

Here is a little secret. The only reason F2P games exist is the potential to get someone who otherwise wouldn't pay for the game to pay for the game. How do they do this? Make the items very hard to get or take long amounts of time to aquire. They don't really care about the freeloaders that come along and never pay anything at all.

[Blatantfool]

There's this thing in marketing that very few people are trained to tell the difference between, and that is the line between hype and genuine interest.

 

Hype? Hype is BAD. Hype is a TON of short term gain for little long term profit, it's a sudden burst of money that dies fast. It's wonderful for full retail console games, and the very death of F2P. It usually is caused by large marketing campaigns.

 

Genuine interest is longterm profits with a VERY slow, gradual decay. It is WONDERFUL. It's caused by building community interaction and talking with your fans.

 

The problem is that hype/genuine interest are very similar from a distance. It's about word choice and focus and that takes a lot of work to properly decipher. They're doing things that BUILD genuine interest, but getting hype in return because of ---

 

The community. The community is taking honest open attempts at comment and question and interaction and turning it into a kind of worship.

 

The devs aren't responsible for the hype, and at this stage they can't combat it without closing themselves off to the players. That's the community's fault, not theirs. Blaming them for hype is absurd.

 

 This is true, hype is bad 9.9/10 (The .1 being the game turns out to actually be golden.). But that doesn't change the nature of the beast - does it?

 

 Anything they say is going to cause a title wave of it, for better or worse. There is no escaping it. These developers have fans loyal enough to throw 250$ at an incomplete game - that is no small amount of appreciation. I'm not even being sarcastic or snide saying that.

 

 

 There are fans here that say dense things like "I'm okay with things being overpriced because I want DE to make money" in cases like the Latron being around 14$ or Frost/Ash/Rhino randomly sporting a 375 (roughly 25$)  price tag. That is dedication.

 

 

 So like I said - if DESteve or DERebecca so much as mentioned "We might get X" or "Expect Y" they'll generate a monsoon of interest and hype.

 

 

 

 And if anyone making significant choices at DE isn't aware of this kind of thing then they have a problem. This isn't really a case of DE being evil or the fans being stupid. It was just a stinker release for a weapon people where really excited for.

 

 Hopefully DE does the fantastic thing and simply avoids this crap in the future. They've done it FINE until now. I intend to treat it that way. 

 

 I don't happen to think any less of DE, I simply think this update was poor. They seem to have left many people disappointed. 

Edited April 27, 2013 by Blatantfool

[Azure_Kytia]

If you don't feel entitled to anything, you're living life wrong.

 

"Hey, an entirely free game!"

 

"WAIT A MINUTE, THIS GAME HAS AN IN GAME SHOP AND NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NEW WEAPONS CAN'T BE BOUGHT THERE FOR REAL MONEY NO."

 

Never mind the fact that there is already a free method of obtaining it. Free players have to wait to get what they want. How is that a problem? 

[Blatantfool]

You are mistaking something.

 

DE did not create the game out of Charity and to be all cool just so "you can play it for free".

 

They need to make it so it appeal to us. I don't agree with their choice, I give me two cents about it.

 

They are a Company, I am a Consumer. We are not friends with DE. If they make a service I don't like, I have every right to make my opinion heard about it.

 

The "this game is free" is a false argument.

 

 I want to give you a particularly personal bubble invading hug you silly bugger. Big h0m0. 

 

 Good post.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Blatantfool

[LegendairyWarframe]

"Hey, an entirely free game!"

 

"WAIT A MINUTE, THIS GAME HAS AN IN GAME SHOP AND NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NEW WEAPONS CAN'T BE BOUGHT THERE FOR REAL MONEY NO."

 

Never mind the fact that there is already a free method of obtaining it. Free players have to wait to get what they want. How is that a problem? 

Your logic: Poor bugger step aside, wait till I am happy to spare you some food; now, let me serve my precious paying customer first.

[Blatantfool]

I think the thing that nullqasael said that convinced me to give DE the benefit of the doubt (moreso than I already was, I mean) was the idea that it may have been last minute decision made by a financial team within DE that was entirely unaware of the hype. If that's the case, then I can at least understand how this whole situation came to be, even if I do think it could have been handled better.

 

 I happen to be taking him very seriously. He seems to know what he is talking about, so I feel like I should respond honestly.

 

 My opinion on this matter is pretty straightforward.

 

 I agree, hype is bad. But it is a wild thing that you can't honestly expect to prevent. You can however shoot yourself in the foot when you have a situation like DE's Glaive.

 

 And when I say 'Shoot yourself in the foot.' I mean aggravate/worry/disappoint very, very loyal fans who typically have very, very high expectations.

 

 

 Neither side is entirely at fault for the hype train derailing like this - however DE did manage a real stinker. They shouldn't do that again.

[Mak_Gohae]

 If they want to take all the Alert only weapons and make them purchaseable with Platinum they can knock themselves out. If they want to keep adding new weapons like this, they can knock themselves out.

 

 

 But I'll make damn sure to make sure any friends or acquaintances of mine knows to just wait to get it free. I've never really had to advise another person against spending money on something in Warframe. This would be the sort of thing that'd get that started.

 

 "You'll get it free anyway. Just wait for that, not worth 10$. Maybe you can get around to finally buying some slots or something instead."

 

 I'm okay with "Pay or Grind for it."

 

 I'll advise people against supporting 'Pay or get lucky someday."

 

So you are saying are selling the game EXACTLY like it should be sold?

You can pay for stuff and get it now or you can wait for it and build it. That's what this game has always been like from the start.

[GrimJr]

You are mistaking something.

 

DE did not create the game out of Charity and to be all cool just so "you can play it for free".

 

They need to make it so it appeal to us. I don't agree with their choice, I give me two cents about it.

 

They are a Company, I am a Consumer. We are not friends with DE. If they make a service I don't like, I have every right to make my opinion heard about it.

 

The "this game is free" is a false argument.

 

True, But doesn't this also mean the company has every right to trash your opinion about it.

 

so basically it's like we are protesting outside their company building :D

[nullCassielle]

 This is true, hype is bad 9.9/10 (The .1 being the game turns out to actually be golden.). But that doesn't change the nature of the beast - does it?

 

 Anything they say is going to cause a title wave of it, for better or worse. There is no escaping it. These developers have fans loyal enough to throw 250$ at an incomplete game - that is no small amount of appreciation. I'm not even being sarcastic or snide saying that.

 

 

 There are fans here that say dense things like "I'm okay with things being overpriced because I want DE to make money" in cases like the Latron being 14% or Frost/Ash/Rhino randomly sporting a 375 price tag. That is dedication.

 

 

 So like I said - if DESteve or DERebecca so much as mentioned "We might get X" or "Expect Y" they'll generate a monsoon of interest and hype.

 

 

 

 And if anyone making significant choices at DE isn't aware of this kind of thing then they have a problem. This isn't really a case of DE being evil or the fans being stupid. It was just a stinker release for a weapon people where really excited for.

 

 Hopefully DE does the fantastic thing and simply avoids this crap. 

 

 I don't happen to think any less of DE, I simply think this update was poor. They seem to have left many people disappointed. 

 

The people making significant choice ARE aware. They're paid to be aware.

 

As far as I can tell, Steve and Rebecca are not. They're community management (or community something else, or PR -- all of these do not deal with the press and generally don't deal with hype-vs.-interest and marketing stuff, though in some cases (like my company) there's overlap). I'd wager a guess they run the livestreams mostly without any kind of serious oversight of the marketing-related variety, or they'd be a LOT more staged -- less joking, less nervous people, and more WHOOSH and BAZOOM.

 

That said, you and I seem to agree on the factual side of this, my assumptions regarding the rest are purely assumptions based on my experience and I COULD BE WRONG. I really could. That means that I have no more to discuss here with you, because we're largely on the same page -- I'm only trying to defuse a volatile community and steer them towards reasonable discussion which is the ONLY THING that can help DE fix this and avoid doing it again. You seem to feel that arguing my points is necessary, and that's perfectly valid because DE can't come in to see us all acting like nothing's wrong, or nothing will change. So I don't feel like we need to argue on this. We agree on the details and disagree on the what-if. That's going to go nowhere.

[Blatantfool]

The financial team would have been the ones preventing a rapid backpedaling in order to figure out what its the best course of action in the future.

 

The ones responsible for the availability tier would have been the lead designer and their team, who tend to be wayyy too busy to give a crap about hype or community or sleep.

 

 And it leads to disappointed/aggravated customers in this case. 

 

 They don't have to do anything with the hype - but it'd be silly to ignore the elephant in the room. 

 

 The solution is to go back to what doesn't cause this sort of reaction. 

 

 Many people are making a pretty clear statement when you get to the heart of it. DE asking us "Pay or Grind?" is okay. DE saying "Pay or RNG." is not.

[Sikab]

True, But doesn't this also mean the company has every right to trash your opinion about it.

 

so basically it's like we are protesting outside their company building :D

As people love to yell "It's Beta", it's true. We are in Beta. So it's not a protest. It's giving our thoughts about this new trend, and hinting them to change it (sooner the better).

[nullCassielle]

 I happen to be taking him very seriously. He seems to know what he is talking about, so I feel like I should respond honestly.

 

 My opinion on this matter is pretty straightforward.

 

 I agree, hype is bad. But it is a wild thing that you can't honestly expect to prevent. You can however shoot yourself in the foot when you have a situation like DE's Glaive.

 

 And when I say 'Shoot yourself in the foot.' I mean aggravate/worry/disappoint very, very loyal fans who typically have very, very high expectations.

 

 

 Neither side is entirely at fault for the hype train derailing like this - however DE did manage a real stinker. They shouldn't do that again.

 

While I remember this, I have one comment only here.

 

She, not he. If the name change option were currently implemented I'd snatch that up like a heartbeat to stop this kind of thing.

[Guest]

Or, you think we aren't entitled to something, which we should be. It's only a matter of perspective.

to be real here we aren't entitled to anything aside from the founders and platinum according to this thread here

this information also appears on the launcher before every new patch

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/28-open-beta-agreement-read-me/

Edited April 27, 2013 by Guest

[Quetzhal]

DE asking us "Pay or Grind?" is okay. DE saying "Pay or RNG." is not.

I like this.

At the heart of it, I suppose you could argue that the alert system is flawed. As an occasional thing, it can be a cool surprise when you log on; making people reliant on it, on the other hand, seems off considering the fact that it's RNG that can run across months. The most dedicated of people (to the game) might have the worst of luck.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Quetzhal