No Glaive Blueprint? Fine, No Support From Me.

[RawGritz]

After last night's hiatus, I'm here to remind people there's a topic for them to go to if they want their feedback heard by DE.

 

If you don't want your name on the topic, PM me and I'll put it into my own offline file that I'll be sending to Rebecca. The important part is that if you care at all, either way, you should get heard.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/35839-collection-glaive-debut-discussion-breakdown-thread/

feel free to add my point if you like. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/35697-no-glaive-blueprint-fine-no-support-from-me/page-38#entry341918

[Avenwing]

Agreed, new type weapons shouldn't be in alerts. Probably the next one I wouldn't mind but for the first, it's not really fun to not being able to build it.

That's a fallacy, the only reason anyone is butthurt about this is because it's a fancy weapon they want. The new "gameplay mechanic" is gimmicky at best right now there are plenty of other items that have been released the same way but because it's not something a lot of people really wanted people never screamed bloody murder.

 

Entitled, it perfectly defines each and every one of you whiners.

[Gestalt]

So long as they put in some sort of algorithm where after getting something x number of times (let's say maybe 5) that it lowers your chance of getting that versus something else slightly (say maybe a 10% reduction in chance that it comes up) I think that would be an interesting way to change alerts, though they might need to increase frequency of ? alerts if it was rng per player.

 

I think this is a fine idea, with a diminishing chance of getting repeated rewards.  And yes, the frequency of ?-alerts does need tweaking if they were to randomize reward on per player basis.  

[Myo86]

Wow seriously, 36 pages. Over a weapon.

not 36 pages over a weapon 36 pages over a practice get it  straight

[Avenwing]

not 36 pages over a weapon 36 pages over a practice get it  straight

No, it's 36 pages over a weapon. They've done this about 16 times before this and no one *@##$ed then.

[Lifeshield]

***If Stalker drops the Glaive when you kill him, then people will continue to play the game and more so to get the Stalker to appear. It's still random, keeps people playing and you have to work for it a bit more than an alert. 

 

Also it could help prevent some rushers since everyone will want to stick together in case the stalker appears so they can help defeat him and collect the Glaive.

 

I say change nothing. But also add this new way to obtain the Glaive. DE makes money and increases user playtime and concurrent users. All things free-2-play needs to maintain.

 

I support this idea, probably one of the more realistic ideas I've read on this yet, and I'd vote for Stalkers difficulty to be increased with it as well.

 

It's a unique weapon, one of a kind currently, so if people really do want a change then make earning it unique as well as extremely challenging and team building.

 

After all that's what the people want isn't it?

Edited April 28, 2013 by Lifeshield

[Avenwing]

I support this idea, probably one of the more realistic ideas I've read on this yet, and I'd vote for Stalkers difficulty to be increased with it as well.

 

It's a unique weapon, one of a kind currently, so if people really do want a change then make earning it unique as well as extremely challenging and team building.

 

After all that's what the people want isn't it?

That's fine with me but make it so he ignores Rhino's iron skin. I can kill him with one use of iron skin and take 0 damage.

[Myo86]

No, it's 36 pages over a weapon. They've done this about 16 times before this and no one *@##$ed then.

16 times? on what?

and u dont speak for everyone i bought weapons off the market with real money straight up and let me tell they were S#&$ty weapons too

heat dagger anyone?

[Brasten]

I don't understand why it's a bad thing for a company to utilize hype to make money.

Did everyone forget DE is a business and the staff works there as their careers? The whole point of making the game is to make money.

See my post up thread. It is a new mechanic that is only Plat or Random. To date this has not happened for weapons. The Paris is the best example. If it had been Alert Drop we would have seen an equal backlash. It's not totally about the Glaive, it's about it being the only weapon in its catagory (throwable). If DE added a basic boomerang style weapon alongside the rarer Glaive this would be a totally different discussion.

[Lifeshield]

That's fine with me but make it so he ignores Rhino's iron skin. I can kill him with one use of iron skin and take 0 damage.

 

Which was why I suggested increase his difficulty. Make him almost impossible for anyone to solo and really challenging for a team regardless of who's in the group.

 

I would also suggest that only players who do a minimum specified amount of damage (or some other way of measuring someones activity in a battle with Stalker) have a chance of the drop as well to encourage everyone to take him down and to cut out any attempts at leeching or sitting back while others do the hard work.

 

That way if he is killed then whoever gets the Glaive truly earned it.

[Xtorma]

That's a fallacy, the only reason anyone is butthurt about this is because it's a fancy weapon they want. The new "gameplay mechanic" is gimmicky at best right now there are plenty of other items that have been released the same way but because it's not something a lot of people really wanted people never screamed bloody murder.

 

Entitled, it perfectly defines each and every one of you whiners.

They are all most definatly "entitled"....to their opinion. The same way you are "entitled" to whine about them.

[Afroman12]

38 Pages on how they #*($%%@ up... and people arguing back and forward? Why can't we all just agree... get rid of alert missions blueprint rewards... and just put everything into the market? No one cared up until now because seriously who wants that crappy &#! heat dagger? Not me. Weapons should be handled in a simple manner.

 

A) Platinum.

 

B) Credits to buy right off the bat for some weapons.

 

C) Rarer weapons are blueprint only and you farm materials.

 

This RNG of Alerts with me having to be home at the right time and what not is absolutely abusrd. I don't understand why people would defend such non sense. Maybe the people defending are the basement dwellers with no lives and can easily obtain such things because honestly from a logical stand point there should be no two sides on this... only one... unless you have no life.

 

If someone comes to this game to have fun and enjoy themselves... why the hell are you keeping something away from them? Let's just say I can only play between the hours of 3 pm and 5 pm. That's a VERY small window of a chance to get something I want really bad. Devs are out of their mind.

Edited April 28, 2013 by BakaGamer

[Brasten]

That's a fallacy, the only reason anyone is butthurt about this is because it's a fancy weapon they want. The new "gameplay mechanic" is gimmicky at best right now there are plenty of other items that have been released the same way but because it's not something a lot of people really wanted people never screamed bloody murder.

Entitled, it perfectly defines each and every one of you whiners.

What other weapon with a new game mechanics has been released the way the Glaive was? Not the Paris, not the Mire. The only ones that come to mind are the Ceramic and Dark Dagger... which you can't get for Plantium BTW. The fact that the mechanic is rather buggy is another reason a non-cool version should have wider avalaibilty. The mechanic needs to be tested and bug hunted. Making a new mechanic Rare is a bad way to get it tested.

Tell me, what would have happend if the Paris BP had Alert only?

Edited April 28, 2013 by Brasten

[Myo86]

38 Pages on how they #*($%%@ up... and people arguing back and forward? Why can't we all just agree... get rid of alert missions blueprint rewards... and just put everything into the market? No one cared up until now because seriously who wants that crappy &#! heat dagger? Not me. Weapons should be handled in a simple manner.

 

A) Platinum.

 

B) Credits to buy right off the bat for some weapons.

 

C) Rarer weapons are blueprint only and you farm materials.

 

This RNG of Alerts with me having to be home at the right time and what not is absolutely abusrd. I don't understand why people would defend such non sense. Maybe the people defending are the basement dwellers with no lives and can easily obtain such things because honestly from a logical stand point there should be no two sides on this... only one... unless you have no life.

 

If someone comes to this game to have fun and enjoy themselves... why the hell are you keeping something away from them? Let's just say I can only play between the hours of 3 pm and 5 pm. That's a VERY small window of a chance to get something I want really bad. Devs are out of their mind.

couldn't have spoken more truth

 

i remember someone said they are making a game to make money but u forgot the other side of the coin, ppl play a game to have fun

 

no fun no money

[Gestalt]

Maybe all upcoming weapons and Frames will be too. If it were random mission reward, like Banshes BP it's one thing, but Glaive alert could pop-up in three weeks for all I know.

 

WHOA, let's not go down that route shall we?  Actually, the Banshee BP method of obtaining is rather reasonable.  Hard to get, but one can set a realistic goal of going after it.  However, let's not put any more new weapons/warframes up in the alert system...

 

Glaive as Alert reward is totally fine and imho i wish there were 1 new alert only weapon and one BP weapon every friday instead of mostly 2 BP.

 

Can we just move the **** away from the alert-only-weapon talk?  The alert system (at least the ?-alert part) is flawed, arbitrary, unfun (was going to say "unfair" as well, but that might prompt some people to counter by using the now meaningless term "entitled" and we wouldn't want that would we) and detrimental to the longevity of this game.  We either need an overhaul of the system or stop tying more and more items to this current system.

 

Feel like a broken record.

 

Edit: that sounds harsher than I intended.  Not directly at your comment, Nama.  Just trying to wade off the evil curse plaguing this game that is the alert system.

Edited April 28, 2013 by Gestalt

[Avenwing]

WHOA, let's not go down that route shall we?  Actually, the Banshee BP method of obtaining is rather reasonable.  Hard to get, but one can set a realistic goal of going after it.  However, let's not put any more new weapons/warframes up in the alert system...

 

 

Can we just move the **** away from the alert-only-weapon talk?  The alert system (at least the ?-alert part) is flawed, arbitrary, unfun (was going to say "unfair" as well, but that might prompt some people to counter by using the now meaningless term "entitled" and we wouldn't want that would we) and detrimental to the longevity of this game.  We either need an overhaul of the system or stop tying more and more items to this current system.

 

Feel like a broken record.

 

Edit: that sounds harsher than I intended.  Not directly at your comment, Nama.  Just trying to wade off the evil curse plaguing this game that is the alert system.

Steve has already stated that the alert system needs work. They are a small company/team so they can't work on everything at once and right now the alert system isn't all that important to fix considering the total lack of story, clan anything, and a real endgame.

 

Also to someone else, all of the alternate helmets, the heat dagger, and all the alternate weapon skins were released in Alerts and on the market for plat. Sure they don't all have some gimmicky new "game mechanic" but they were released in the same way. Complaining that the Glaive didn't get special treatment because it was different is beyond stupid.

[Myo86]

Steve has already stated that the alert system needs work. They are a small company/team so they can't work on everything at once and right now the alert system isn't all that important to fix considering the total lack of story, clan anything, and a real endgame.

 

Also to someone else, all of the alternate helmets, the heat dagger, and all the alternate weapon skins were released in Alerts and on the market for plat. Sure they don't all have some gimmicky new "game mechanic" but they were released in the same way. Complaining that the Glaive didn't get special treatment because it was different is beyond stupid.

going on ur theory if alert system needs work then why did they put the glaive in a needs work system.  logic not logical?

[Avenwing]

going on ur theory if alert system needs work then why did they put the glaive in a needs work system.  logic not logical?

The whole game needs work, so by your logic we shouldn't even be playing.

[Myo86]

The whole game needs work, so by your logic we shouldn't even be playing.

im not playing im on the forums more than im in the game comments?

[Alure]

39 pages of this? I think having rarer rewards as alert-only is a fine idea for the first month or so, then maybe they should consider moving them to blueprints. If not that, at least increase the frequency of item-rewarding alerts.

[schubalts]

I would just like to say that I find it hilarious that some people have said that the people who want to buy Glaive blueprints for credits want instant gratification.  Let's take  a look at the actual game-time investments required to get the item to the same capabilities (item + Reactor/Catalyst) with both methods (Platinum and credits).

 

 

Buy item with Platinum:  Item instantly shows up in your inventory, ready to use, with a Reactor/Catalyst already installed.

 

Buy blueprint with credits:  Open Foundry to see if you even have the materials needed to craft it.  Grind for materials if you don't already have them.  Pay the cost of the blueprint again in order to start crafting the item.  Wait 12 to 24 hours for the item to be crafted.  Claim the item and put item in your inventory.  Buy/craft Reactor/Catalyst to put in item if you like the item enough.

 

One of these things actually involves getting an item right now (instant gratification), and the other involves waiting at least 12 hours to get the item.

[Gestalt]

Steve has already stated that the alert system needs work. They are a small company/team so they can't work on everything at once and right now the alert system isn't all that important to fix considering the total lack of story, clan anything, and a real endgame.

 

Also to someone else, all of the alternate helmets, the heat dagger, and all the alternate weapon skins were released in Alerts and on the market for plat. Sure they don't all have some gimmicky new "game mechanic" but they were released in the same way. Complaining that the Glaive didn't get special treatment because it was different is beyond stupid.

 

You have a good point with the helmets being both Plat and ?-alert reward (the exact same as the Glaive).  

 

The problem is that this is a new weapon we're talking about.  A new, hotly-anticipated, iconic weapon with a mechanic that (hypothetically in my mind, at least; haven't tested out) supports a pretty interesting new playstyle of more smoothly combining the "melee" with the "gunplay."  This cannot be compared with "alternate helmets."

 

And on that point, I have an issue with them making the blueprints for helmets obtainable by non-platinum means.  What they should've done is make the helmets strictly cosmetic (no gameplay impact), and make them platinum only.  Period.  That is how successful F2P cashshops work.  Sell item/character skins.  They're not doing this, or at least not enough and not in the correct way.  

 

So, yes I know this is not the first time they've released an item for plat and ?-alert only.  But THAT in itself is a bad way to introduce items.  So they should change it:  like myself and Brasten (and others) had been saying, make a generic boomerang weapon that's buyable or craftable with credit; keep the Glaive plat only (or make it ?-alert; whatever, if you love that system so much).  But PLEASE, the difference between a paying and a F2P player should be mostly COSMETIC.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Gestalt

[Gestalt]

Oh and Aven, I also agree that DE is a small team and they have very tight schedules and many, MANY things on their to-do list, and perhaps coming up with a new alert system isn't that high on their priority (just look at how many people clamour for the optional reset and that hadn't gotten done yet).

 

So I would like to qualify our feedback here as "we would like to see this done" as opposed to "we demand this be done NOW, damn the other things."  People will bring it up again and again, because they feel strongly about it, and DE will look at how many people are asking for specific changes and perhaps (or perhaps not) shift their priorities around.  

 

But, yeah.  If the playerbase knows the alert system isn't good, and DE knows we know it isn't good, it would make sense not to compound the issue by keep dropping new items into its reward pool, eh?  As many have suggested, make it like Banshee BP, dropped at high level defense reward.  OR EVEN BETTER!!!  The glaive has THREE (3) blades right?!?!  Sell the master glaive BP in market, and it will need 3 "blade" sub-BPs (call them Glaive Leaf A, Glaive Leaf B and Glaive Leaf C)!  Copy the Banshee BP drop locations and make all 3 drop at those places! (what were they?  2 drop at defense, 1 at M prime?)  Problem solved!  Now we have a new weapon that will take a heck of a lot of time and effort to gather and make!  Don't like all that effort?  Buy it with plat!  At least then we can circumvent the god-awful alert system!

Edited April 29, 2013 by Gestalt

[Namacyst]

Srsly.. when the first Glaive Alert hit most of he people whining here don't say another word about the Topic anways and even forget how evil mean and bad in their opinion the alert only release of the galive was. The only ones that will keep going are the people who missed the alert... and again after the next one even they shut up.

 

The problem right now is that you WANT IT NOW but can only have it now for plat... or you have to wait until the Alert hits. And that's how f2p games do things! Want it fast? Pay up!

[Drusus]

 But PLEASE, the difference between a paying and a F2P player should be mostly COSMETIC.

 

I challenge this to be more correctly worded as:

 

The difference between a paying and a F2P player's uniquely acquirable items should be Cosmetic.

 

All items that provide mechanical impact should be avail to both paying and un-paying customers via both paid and unpaid means, though these means need not be equally convenient; just comparably accessible to both with paid options heightening convenience or ease of accessibility, trading time for money.

 

Your opinions on successful versus unsuccessful cash shops is a subjective one, and while I appreciate your opinion here (and agree with a large part of it in principle) it's not the only way to go whatsoever if one examines the problem more liberally.  Simply including mechanical options in the shop is not instantly a P2W structure either before that gets brought back into the discussion.  

 

Warframe has done a spectacular job of providing multiple paths, both paid and unpaid, towards mechanical and aesthetic options in the game in my opinion and analysis.  I look forward to how they continue to do so.

 

The alert BP model for things you can buy with platinum is not in and of itself flawed or punitive.  The issue that some have rightfully pointed out, including DE-Steve prior to this disappointing Glaive uproar, is that teh implementation of the Alert system needs work and improvement to make it a fairer, more engaging and less real-life random model of item injection, play engagement and risk/reward mechanism.

 

If we want a generic boomerang as well as the Glaive?  Wonderful, I'm in total agreement that now that this is in, lets get some throwing axes, daggers, boomerangs, sickles on elastic chains and (my personal goto favorite) Tron Discs/Captain america shields.  

 

But if those are deployed via the Alert system and the Alert system gets the overhaul for fun and interaction we are told is pending anyways?  

 

I think that is just fine.

 

Things that are Plat only?  By all means, anchor those to pure convenience points and cosmetics.  

 

I personally like that the Skins have mechanical weight, so we can experiment with weapon variations along with weapon looks.  Those skins and minor stat changes are far easier for them to produce into the game over full creations and that alone means if they want to give me 5 flavours of Fragor?  I'll take vanilla, chocolate, strawberry, pistachio and tiger thanks. ;)