An Ember Buff/rework

[Bouldershoulder]

Ive shown that and youve shown how quickly you die against infested

 

Do you really want to argue this?

Yes.

This thread is about warframe abilities

[Azawarau]

Yes.

Alright

 

While im meleeing with ember and her 5x damage boost on enemies that "any frame" might not have the damage or CC to take out you can keep believing ember ist a good melee frame

 

You asked for proof and i gave it to you and then you go on to say any frame can melee

 

Literally the worst troll ever

[Bibliothekar]

Guys, do you think you could stop quarrelling over how to play her "right" and instead get back to the topic viz. if and how she should be buffed or reworked? This kindergarten style arguing is getting a little boring.

[RealPandemonium]

posts

If anything your videos show that abilities in Warframe aren't a huge deal and that their impact should color our gameplay rather than forcibly shape it.  Everyone screaming about how a frame is useless because its abilities aren't overpowered are just relying on abilities to play the game for them rather than developing the skills that lead to fun and success in the long run.  At some point the Rhinos/Lokis/Novas made people bad at the game due to their reliance on them to turn off gameplay.  

[Bouldershoulder]

If anything your videos show that abilities in Warframe aren't a huge deal and that their impact should color our gameplay rather than forcibly shape it.  Everyone screaming about how a frame is useless because its abilities aren't overpowered are just relying on abilities to play the game for them rather than developing the skills that lead to fun and success in the long run.  At some point the Rhinos/Lokis/Novas made people bad at the game due to their reliance on them to turn off gameplay.  

Thanks for the constructive comment, almost what I was pointing at. But I rather said that Azawarau is tying a completely separate and self-sufficient game mechanics to a particular warframe which is a big mistake, because when he uses Accelerant it boosts skills, ranged, and melee weapons of him and everyone in the squad who has fire element on gear. With equal success I could say Nova is the best warframe for melee due to her ult giving x2 damage boost, 75% slow-mo, and when you kill one-two units, everything around you dies due to a massive chain explosion. And he couldn't argue that point.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Bouldershoulder

[Avicou]

This is a great idea.

 

My first time playing Ember, I wasn't impressed. She was slow, and this was before her buff so Fireball was super slow and her ult was terrible. Her only saving grace was Overheat, but that fell off pretty fast.

 

With Ember Prime came Ember's rework. It was definitely a step in the right direction. Accelerant was a great synergizer with her other abilities. Her new 1 and 4 were much more useful. But she still wasn't what I wanted.

[Azawarau]

Thanks for the constructive comment, almost what I was pointing at. But I rather said that Azawarau is tying a completely separate and self-sufficient game mechanics to a particular warframe which is a big mistake, because when he uses Accelerant it boosts skills, ranged, and melee weapons of him and everyone in the squad who has fire element on gear. With equal success I could say Nova is the best warframe for melee due to her ult giving x2 damage boost, 75% slow-mo, and when you kill one-two units, everything around you dies due to a massive chain explosion. And he couldn't argue that point.

Werent you the one saying ember is bad at melee?

 

Nova is overpowered obviously

 

Itd be like bringing old invincible trinity into the conversation and calling her better because she cant take damage or be knocked down

 

If youre relying on something like that then youre out of real arguments to make

 

And even with Novas chain explosions she couldnt keep up with ember without her ridiculously high slow rate as far as damage is concerned

 

But now i hve to call you out on something

 

You used nova as an example here

 

Name some other frames that can outdamage a melee ember and stay alive viably in close range

 

Or show a video of how effective they are and ill beat match it with most any frame to prove my point

[Bouldershoulder]

Werent you the one saying ember is bad at melee?

 

Nova is overpowered obviously

 

Itd be like bringing old invincible trinity into the conversation and calling her better because she cant take damage or be knocked down

 

If youre relying on something like that then youre out of real arguments to make

 

And even with Novas chain explosions she couldnt keep up with ember without her ridiculously high slow rate as far as damage is concerned

 

But now i hve to call you out on something

 

You used nova as an example here

 

Name some other frames that can outdamage a melee ember and stay alive viably in close range

 

Or show a video of how effective they are and ill beat match it with most any frame to prove my point

How many facts have you provided so far? 'ember is great in melee', 'ember has accelerant', 'ember is cool', 'no one compares to ember', 'you've prove nothing'

 

You think yourself deserving as much attention as I give you? You are not following the topic at all. You are wrong. In both cases. Learn to prove your point by solid facts, not by bare words, and maybe then I'll consider continuing this conversation with you. This thread is about abilities. About how they work and how people suggest to redo them, not about how much weakness to fire Accelerant gives.

Edited December 19, 2014 by Bouldershoulder

[DireMoose]

Guys, can we get back to the subject at hand? no matter what she's good at, she's still not good enough. To make it easier on DE, how about we just state the facts and easy (balanced) solutions to fix them. the first one that comes to my mind is how slow she is. she shouldn't be if she's as squishy as she is. it doesn't break her design of Forget all defense for pure DAMAGE!!! because how defensive is being able to sprint logically speaking? also about her previously mentioned design, if she isn't going to have any scaling abilities then i want her to have CC that's going to help her stay alive. give world on fire a chance for blast proc or redesign fireblast so that it's more useful outside of 5 waves of infested defense. accelerant is okay but if she can't get close enough to be in melee range before they come out of the stun then i don't see much of a use for it outside of buffing WoF damage. also accelerant should really buff any element with fire damage in it. radiation burns are totally a thing blast is obvious and gas well gas can be willing suspension of disbelief for the sake of her being useful to more than just herself.

[RealPandemonium]

I think Azawarau has done a poor job of expressing that Accelerant offers Ember a large damage boost in addition to on-demand stuns, making her a good choice for melee combat as she can avoid most damage while being able to increase her damage output enough to make most encounters short and sweet.  Her 1 and 3 also offer some CC/area denial and, in the case of 1, ranged damage without having to switch weapons.  A build that incorporates 4 using Narrow Minded gives her additional DPS without really sacrificing anything since you will be in melee range anyway (and can safely attack enemies while taking cover as well, if needed.)

Edited December 19, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[Azawarau]

How many facts have you provided so far? 'ember is great in melee', 'ember has accelerant', 'ember is cool', 'no one compares to ember', 'you've prove nothing'

 

You think yourself deserving as much attention as I give you? You are not following the topic at all. You are wrong. In both cases. Learn to prove your point by solid facts, not by bare words, and maybe then I'll consider continuing this conversation with you. This thread is about abilities. About how they work and how people suggest to redo them, not about how much weakness to fire Accelerant gives.

Where did i say ember is cool or noone compares?

 

Its not about the weakness to fire, Its about the massive damage boost paired with stun and quick killing AoE melee that ember accels at

 

If you arent taking advantage of that then its your issue, not embers

 

I think Azawarau has done a poor job of expressing that Accelerant offers Ember a large damage boost in addition to on-demand stuns, making her a good choice for melee combat as she can avoid most damage while being able to increase her damage output enough to make most encounters short and sweet.  Her 1 and 3 also offer some CC/area denial and, in the case of 1, ranged damage without having to switch weapons.  A build that incorporates 4 using Narrow Minded gives her additional DPS without really sacrificing anything since you will be in melee range anyway (and can safely attack enemies while taking cover as well, if needed.)

Ive said all of that already multiple times

 

Im talking to a rock here

[RealPandemonium]

Ive said all of that already multiple times

 

Im talking to a rock here

Gotta have dat eloquence, yo.

[Azawarau]

Gotta have dat eloquence, yo.

Ive never been the classy type...

 

Back when i was fighting about every day i could remember i started taking it only as far as the person i was fighting

 

If they were only punching id only punch

 

If they grabbed a stick or friends id do the same

 

If they had a knife i was screwed

 

Anyways... class isnt all that important to me personally

 

I just like getting things done

 

Leave the class to the two faced people and politicians hiding behind smiles and investors

[Bouldershoulder]

Guys, can we get back to the subject at hand? no matter what she's good at, she's still not good enough. To make it easier on DE, how about we just state the facts and easy (balanced) solutions to fix them.

 

Gladly

No need to make her a melee frame, she just needs the fire blast to work similar to Banshee's Sonic Boom in radial form and with damage output around 300*PowerStrength*Accelerant. And the World on Fire should be an AoE DoT with status proc chance, it has to be HELL, not the durned freaking fire pillars spewing half the fire into emptiniess, I just hate WoF 2.0, it's crap.

 

Now there she has both damage and crowd control. Accelerant provides damage amplification, a burst of Fire Blast amplified by Accelerant can't be spammed, as it throws everything every which way, and WoF provides both damage and crowd control in the form of fire procs.

This is a simple solution

Edited December 19, 2014 by Bouldershoulder

[Azawarau]

Guys, can we get back to the subject at hand? no matter what she's good at, she's still not good enough. To make it easier on DE, how about we just state the facts and easy (balanced) solutions to fix them. the first one that comes to my mind is how slow she is. she shouldn't be if she's as squishy as she is. it doesn't break her design of Forget all defense for pure DAMAGE!!! because how defensive is being able to sprint logically speaking? also about her previously mentioned design, if she isn't going to have any scaling abilities then i want her to have CC that's going to help her stay alive. give world on fire a chance for blast proc or redesign fireblast so that it's more useful outside of 5 waves of infested defense. accelerant is okay but if she can't get close enough to be in melee range before they come out of the stun then i don't see much of a use for it outside of buffing WoF damage. also accelerant should really buff any element with fire damage in it. radiation burns are totally a thing blast is obvious and gas well gas can be willing suspension of disbelief for the sake of her being useful to more than just herself.

It is on subject

 

Shes not bad aside from WoF and possibly fire blast

[Xtenz]

It is on subject

 

Shes not bad aside from WoF and possibly fire blast

 

If anything on WoF she'd need Stat you can reduce .  

Below 10 sec WoF make it absolutely useless .

Below 15m WoF is absolutely terrible on semi-open/open areas .(makes accelerant S#&$ in those area too)

Below 80 %  Power Strength WoF is really REALLY weak against high armored enemies even with accelerant debuff on.

Below 70 % Energy efficiency  You can't play ember properly since she is a waaaay too "spam-type" warframe to sacrifice efficiency. Unless you have a trinity spamming the vampiric energy next to you all day .

 

Fire Blast is fine imo .

[Azawarau]

If anything on WoF she'd need Stat you can reduce .  

Below 10 sec WoF make it absolutely useless .

Below 15m WoF is absolutely terrible on semi-open/open areas .(makes accelerant S#&$ in those area too)

Below 80 %  Power Strength WoF is really REALLY weak against high armored enemies even with accelerant debuff on.

Below 70 % Energy efficiency  You can't play ember properly since she is a waaaay too "spam-type" warframe to sacrifice efficiency. Unless you have a trinity spamming the vampiric energy next to you all day .

 

Fire Blast is fine imo .

I have WoF at 8 seconds on my melee build and it still has some mild use

 

If you melee or use shotguns and such then under 15 meters isnt too terrible unless youre against corpus

 

One of my old main builds actually used 75% power STR on ember and the efficiency combined with good enough power made her very viable

 

If you max out power STR or go further and ax out STR and range while sacrificing defenses and efficiency she can be viable but only on survivals and defenses where eney spawns are high enough to get a return on her casts

 

Ive done this myself many times and tried to make it work on other missions but it doesnt

[Veddhartha]

Every weak there is a request to buff Ember. Every week it is ignored. Every week I get to laugh at Ember fans.

[RealPandemonium]

Every weak there is a request to buff Ember. Every week it is ignored. Every week I get to laugh at Ember fans.

True Ember fans are people who ask for a toggle on 4. :D

[Xtenz]

True Ember fans are people who ask for a toggle on 4. :D

 

That wuld be pretty sick , since you could hit on duration ... :D

[BlockshotOrange]

Everyone's already demanding a toggle for her 4.

Now we need to come up with a way to make it comparable to Miasma or Avalanche or Radial Javelin or Crush or whatever uber that wipes out mobs.

It's either a huge damage boost, more fire pillars, or an AOE effect.

 

Also, can we get back to her status and ability reworks?

This isn't the thread to compare builds and say you're not doing X, that's why its Y and Z and stuff.

I'm bored of Aza saying she's fine and we should do things his way.

[cyrus106]

I"m sorry but Aza is wrong. Ember is the least used frame (I literally never see her anymore) and needs severe work. Her 2, 3, and 4 all need a serious tweak/rework.

 

Her ult range is pathetic, its poor duration makes using narrow minded give it a 7m radius, and its cast time is so long its literally gotten me killed various times. Her ring of fire has been nerfed so hard in the past that it is useless even when multiple of them are stacked. Her accelerant is nice but again, poor range. Her movespeed needs a severe buff, or her ult should give her a movespeed boost because as it stands, her ult revolves around running around slugishly for 10~ seconds doing mediocre damage and risking getting killed due to slow movement and extreme squishiness. Ember's original stats were based around her tankiness with overheat, however they REMOVED overheat and did not compensate her stats to fit her new accelerant power

my point is they either need to make her super tanky and rework her all her powers except fireball, or they need to make her FAST and rework all her powers except fireball 

[RealPandemonium]

I"m sorry but Aza is wrong. Ember is the least used frame (I literally never see her anymore) and needs severe work. Her 2, 3, and 4 all need a serious tweak/rework.

 

Her ult range is pathetic, its poor duration makes using narrow minded give it a 7m radius, and its cast time is so long its literally gotten me killed various times. Her ring of fire has been nerfed so hard in the past that it is useless even when multiple of them are stacked. Her accelerant is nice but again, poor range. Her movespeed needs a severe buff, or her ult should give her a movespeed boost because as it stands, her ult revolves around running around slugishly for 10~ seconds doing mediocre damage and risking getting killed due to slow movement and extreme squishiness. Ember's original stats were based around her tankiness with overheat, however they REMOVED overheat and did not compensate her stats to fit her new accelerant power

my point is they either need to make her super tanky and rework her all her powers except fireball, or they need to make her FAST and rework all her powers except fireball 

if you're bad at the game, yeah, maybe

[Azawarau]

I"m sorry but Aza is wrong. Ember is the least used frame (I literally never see her anymore) and needs severe work. Her 2, 3, and 4 all need a serious tweak/rework.

 

Her ult range is pathetic, its poor duration makes using narrow minded give it a 7m radius, and its cast time is so long its literally gotten me killed various times. Her ring of fire has been nerfed so hard in the past that it is useless even when multiple of them are stacked. Her accelerant is nice but again, poor range. Her movespeed needs a severe buff, or her ult should give her a movespeed boost because as it stands, her ult revolves around running around slugishly for 10~ seconds doing mediocre damage and risking getting killed due to slow movement and extreme squishiness. Ember's original stats were based around her tankiness with overheat, however they REMOVED overheat and did not compensate her stats to fit her new accelerant power

my point is they either need to make her super tanky and rework her all her powers except fireball, or they need to make her FAST and rework all her powers except fireball 

Banshee,Mag,Vauban (except infested abuse), Frost (except defenses), Volt,Hydroid,Ash

 

Especially hydroid

 

All appear about the same as ember does from what ive seen

[cyrus106]

Banshee,Mag,Vauban (except infested abuse), Frost (except defenses), Volt,Hydroid,Ash

 

Especially hydroid

 

All appear about the same as ember does from what ive seen

you're joking, right? Volt is lighting fast and has a shield/ steroid. Mag can give herself infinite shield with transference. Banshee has an incredible CC ult. Frost has very strong abilities that work just fine. Ash is still being used for t4 void all the time. Hydroid hasnt been out NEARLY as long as ember. Regardless of your point here, you are trying to be slick and dodge the issue. We are talking about ember here, she needs serious work, regardless of how you feel about other frames.