Mesa Needs Rework. Join Us If You Think That She Is Boring

[Enchillado]

First things first, I want to say that this frame is extremely boring yet, but seems like overall concept allows her to be great character with unique abilities. Let me explain my ideas at least, then we'll talk about how it supposed to be. And again, her appearance will not be touched here, because it is awesome.

 

1. Logic of 1st skill is screwed up. I bet it's even annoying to use it for many players. But base of the idea is pretty good.

 

2. 2nd skill... "Silence"? No, seriously, if you not remember, there is a character named Banshee with one of her skills been completely copied to a new boring frame. What did you said? This new boring frame has damage buff on top of it? Other animation sets for stunned enemies? There is nothing interesting between skill differences. And while Banshee is old character, I like her and I'm personally not interested in the new mix of an old characters that I like. I hope you too.

 

3. 3rd... Oh please... Now this cowboy-girl became some kind of a tank. W-what? Trinity's "Link"? I'm not even going to act sarcastic about differences, there's nothing interesting too. I'd say that this skill is a cap of the design failure.

 

4. Laughing so hard here. Dude, just... I'll just leave a link with a timestamp:

http://youtu.be/FqnKB22pOC0?t=3m10s

And when you took a short look at the video, let's move on. I have no complaints on this skill actually. I mean, at least it's unique for this game. It is a damaging/channeling skill that has unlimited range of use and, I believe, gives you a choice what enemy to shoot first. But seriosly, this skill is still appears as 3rd evidence about how lazy this concept is.

 

And since you came to this point already, let's have a look at my solution.

 

1st skill. Mostly I'm confused why they're not used the Regulators here. And here what I offer:

 

This skill always store output of the Mesa gunfire. Slowly. Continuously. And once activated, it makes Mesa withdraw her Regulators to shoot 2 times using all stored power with X coef. of damage. Mechanic of this skill will fully resemble regular secondaries with trigger mechanic like Tigris has, but withdraw and holster animations are super fast. Once second shot fired - Regulators will automatically hide. Stored energy decays in a geometric progression while Mesa is out of combat. And, as it works now, each shot that damages an enemy will be stored.

 

2nd skill. Straightly:

 

Once activated, it gives Mesa and her allies in Z meters around her X% trigger frequency and reload speed buff (shouldn't be too much here, of course) for the Y duration. Additionally, during this buff, Mesa herself able to mark enemies with her crosshair to render them more vulnerable to shots of allies that are under the influence of the buff. The buff works as an AoE sphere around Mesa and gives bonuses only to those who remain in this area and follows Mesa. Visually AoE radius should look like a well designed and transparent circle under Mesa feet, and marks look like a sniper optic outline. Marks will be worn off after a YY seconds if target is not continuously remain under Mesa crosshair.

 

3rd skill. Looking at the original 4th skill, we can see that Mesa is pretty masterful and agile. And so it leads to another idea:

 

Upon activation Mesa performs a roll to a desired area (depending on moving direction, not player crosshair) and receive X% chance to evade any projectile for the Y duration. All enemies that attempted to shoot her before will be confused, permanently losing their accuracy slightly. The roll has Z passing distance and can be performed through the enemies, stunning them (like it does impact proc) and ignoring collision. Therefore, skill has blurry effects. Mesa recovers from this roll faster than one does after a regular roll.

 

4th skill. Same as it is now, but with a few bonuses.

 

This ability is fully affected by 2nd skill. 3rd skill can be performed without interruption of this skill (Mesa will roll to the player crosshair in this case, because movement is blocked). 1st skill gains energy during this skill as well. Activation of 1st skill immediately interrupts 4th skill giving a few seconds of slow motion and Regulators prepared to an usual 1st skill usage.

 

 

[X is for Power Strength, Y is for Power Duration, and Z is for Power Range coefficients. Double letters only mean that this value will be different of the one mentioned above]

                                                                                                                                                                                          

 

I'm done, guys. And I really hope that some of you will join this conversation. We are many, and we have a lot of ideas. DE is not going to ignore us if we gather our opinions in this topic, because so far they were doing great on community feedback. Please, don't talk about "DE doesn't care" things, this is not what this topic meant for. Just talk about the character. We can help this design become precious.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Enchillado

[Alan3c]

Well... I mostly agree with changes you offer, they're cool, however I don't think that Mesa is THAT boring. But I guess it's just me.

[XxCurtennoxX]

I have loads of fun with her. I don't think she needs a rework once you learn how to play her. And with her augment mod, her second skill's random nature actually pays off. Especially with this augment, she gains a fairly decent amount of CC. Her 4 works fine, and Shatter Shield is also fine too. I see no need for such a major rework.

[Tali]

the only thing that bothers me right now is the new sound they gave her, the old one was better by far

[Enchillado]

I have loads of fun with her. I don't think she needs a rework once you learn how to play her. And with her augment mod, her second skill's random nature actually pays off. Especially with this augment, she gains a fairly decent amount of CC. Her 4 works fine, and Shatter Shield is also fine too. I see no need for such a major rework.

The point is that there's nothing to learn. I was talking about similar skills that we've seen before.

[UnknownGunneryChief]

She is fine as she is now, the only thing I'd really want and think is a must to be added is Regulators taking status effects off of your secondary weapon(s) so Peacemaker could scale much better compared to how it scales now.

[Sk0L]

I was shocked by discrepancy between such a great design and these boring repeated skills, too. After all this original and exciting concepts of warframes, how could Mesa came out? 

[Stormandreas]

Mesa is completely different from all the old frames, and is FAAAAR from a tank with Scattershield.

Admitidly her 1st to 3rd need reworked to actually be viable, but Shooting Gallery is NOT Silence. Silence silences your weapons, and makes enemies oblivious to your gunshots. Shooting Gallery increases a set persons damage, with rotation, and jams enemy guns... that's not the same.
Scatter Shield, is rubbish, and barely blocks shots (AND ONLY BLOCKS), it's far from Link, which provides damage reduction, and redirects that damage to enemies.

The 4th skill has a 50m range and autotargets all enemies in range with 100% accuracy, and its firerate increases with each shot.

[ZzVinniezZ]

we should really stop with Mesa copy from Reaper (overwatch) when Reaper actually copy from Get Amped 2 - Twin Detonators weapon

 

 

plus, she is fine what she is now except for the part when she is really squishy but her shatter shield really help alot.

Edited December 13, 2014 by ZzVinniezZ

[Varzy]

She's fine. Your replacement of Shattershield is weak -- it might work on another frame, but Mesa's Peacemaker depends on good positioning and the whole "roll to confuse" concept runs at cross purposes. The gunslinger frame gets a shield because it's a reference to Fistful of Dollars.

 

About the only thing I agree with is that Ballistic Battery should store power constantly and be shot from the Regulators.

 

Also, dude, her 4th's shooting animations aren't copied from Overwatch. People have been doing the whole "moves so fast an after image is left behind" for literally years, just look at The Matrix.

[Enchillado]

Mesa is completely different from all the old frames, and is FAAAAR from a tank with Scattershield.

Admitidly her 1st to 3rd need reworked to actually be viable, but Shooting Gallery is NOT Silence. Silence silences your weapons, and makes enemies oblivious to your gunshots. Shooting Gallery increases a set persons damage, with rotation, and jams enemy guns... that's not the same.

Scatter Shield, is rubbish, and barely blocks shots (AND ONLY BLOCKS), it's far from Link, which provides damage reduction, and redirects that damage to enemies.

The 4th skill has a 50m range and autotargets all enemies in range with 100% accuracy, and its firerate increases with each shot.

About Silence (material from the wiki): Enemies entering the aura will experience a sonic disturbance, becoming momentarily stunned.

 

You see, there is no difference between jammed guns or just stunned owners of the guns, because units just stand still and hitting the guns. Even more, Shooting Gallery simply stuns every melee unit. While these skills seem different in some way, it feels boring, because base of the skill is just ripped of other skill. And yet you're talking about damage buff and switching between players.

 

It is great that you're not annoyed by the quality of difference, so it means that you can enjoy it. But imagine that THIS IS gunslinger warframe, and there will be NO MORE warframes based on this idea, because this is wrong way of designing the game. So... Why put such a small effort to make it different? It is sad, because there is a lot more under possible gunslinger mechanics.

[Enchillado]

She's fine. Your replacement of Shattershield is weak

Why so, if it could give you, for example, 70% chance to evade incoming shot while this evasion have its own duration? You could roll before 4th skill to be prepared for enemies focus if you don't want to change position during the Peacemaker. Maybe you misunderstood me because of my english, it's not my native.

 

Also, dude, her 4th's shooting animations aren't copied from Overwatch. People have been doing the whole "moves so fast an after image is left behind" for literally years, just look at The Matrix.

 

we should really stop with Mesa copy from Reaper (overwatch) when Reaper actually copy from Get Amped 2 - Twin Detonators weapon

I know it's a common feature, but The fact is that Mesa appeared almost after the publication of the overwatch character designs. 

[Varzy]

 

About Silence (material from the wiki): Enemies entering the aura will experience a sonic disturbance, becoming momentarily stunned.

 

You see, there is no difference between jammed guns or just stunned owners of the guns, because units just stand still and hitting the guns. Even more, Shooting Gallery simply stuns every melee unit. While these skills seem different in some way, it feels boring, because base of the skill is just ripped of other skill. And yet you're talking about damage buff and switching between players.

 

It is great that you're not annoyed by the quality of difference, so it means that you can enjoy it. But imagine that THIS IS gunslinger warframe, and there will be NO MORE warframes based on this idea, because this is wrong way of designing the game. So... Why put such a small effort to make it different? It is sad, because there is a lot more under possible gunslinger mechanics.

 

They don't work the same at all, though. Shooting Gallery's energy lasso needs to actually hit the enemy to jam the gun/stun them, while Silence stuns them immediately. Shooting gallery hits one at a time at close range, Silence hits all at medium range.

 

Shooting gallery is the wonkiest of her skills, though, I'll give you that. But the Muzzle Flash augment makes the aim of the skill much different. If anything, I'd argue it's in Radial Blind/Roar territory.

[Varzy]

 

Why so, if it could give you, for example, 70% chance to evade incoming shot while this evasion have its own duration? You could roll before 4th skill to be prepared for enemies focus if you don't want to change position during the Peacemaker. Maybe you misunderstood me because of my english, it's not my native.

 

 

Nah, I may just be underestimating the duration you propose.

 

But, in effect, isn't a 70% dodge chance (up to, perhaps, a max of 95% with power strength mods) functionally identical to Shattershield as it is now? Either way, you're avoiding the majority of the damage being sent in your direction. Plus there's the matter of Shattershield only reducing bullet damage and not melee or poison auras, etc. It's a conditional damage reduction, unlike Overheat of old.

 

That, the issue of positioning being thrown off on a roll (what if you want a sniper's perch? etc) and the fact that it's a reference to that Fistful of Dollars scene, makes me doubt the worth in replacing it with a functionally identical dodge.

 

Also, Mesa was in development for a while, and effects and skill concepts take a long time to develop. The "fact" that Overwatch premiered shortly before Mesa was released is a coincidence. They wouldn't have had the time to copy Peacemaker's concept from the trailer, especially considering how it's meant to mesh with Shattershield.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Varzy

[Enchillado]

But, in effect, isn't a 70% dodge chance (up to, perhaps, a max of 95% with power strength mods) functionally identical to Shattershield as it is now? Either way, you're avoiding the majority of the damage being sent in your direction. Plus there's the matter of Shattershield only reducing bullet damage and not melee or poison auras, etc. It's a conditional damage reduction, unlike Overheat of old.

 

That, the issue of positioning being thrown off on a roll (what if you want a sniper's perch? etc) and the fact that it's a reference to that Fistful of Dollars scene, makes me doubt the worth in replacing it with a functionally identical dodge.

And so you gave this topic your idea. I admit that sometimes this roll may mess with positioning, I was just trying to came with something different, but thank you for participation.

 

But look, this so-called reference does not clear enough to be convincing. You forget about damage redirection. That's why I called it "another Link". No matter that Link reduces not only projectile damage and spreads in regardless of damage source, Shattershield is boring in general, because this is another copied base of the skill. You'd say that if skill only reduces damage then it may be picking on Mirage's "Eclipse". Most likely I went incorrect direction in the way of thinking, just as I said about the devs.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Enchillado

[Varzy]

 

And so you gave this topic your idea. I admit that sometimes this roll may mess with positioning, I was just trying to came with something different, but thank you for participation.

 

But look, this so-called reference does not clear enough to be convincing. You forget about damage redirection. That's why I called it "another Link". No matter that Link reduces not only projectile damage and spreads in regardless of damage source, Shattershield is boring in general, because this is another copied base of the skill. You'd say that if skill only reduces damage then it may be picking on Mirage's "Eclipse". Most likely I went incorrect direction in the way of thinking, just as I said about the devs.

 

The damage redirection is random, and really isn't noticeable at all. I can't name a single time a redirected bullet has inconvenienced an enemy of mine.

 

Moreso, you need to remember that Link is a skill used by Trinity, who can heal herself if she's in trouble. Link A) Reflects a large amount of damage, B) Works on every kind of damage, and C) Is a short range skill.

 

Mesa can't heal herself or block anything but bullet damage, she needs to remain at range. Shattershield is similar to Link or Overheat, but the strategies behind it are different.