Proposed Solution To Rushers, Slow Warframes, Lost Tenno!

[Baigan]

Rusher: player who is objective minded, maybe tunnel vision is question. He wants something out of that stage, its completion, he doesn't cares about the side objectives. He can make the run faster, if people would follow his lead. Would rather do 2 or 3 runs in the time the Non Rusher does 1.

 

The Non Rusher: player who takes his time, probably thinks he may come across something useful if he kills those guys on the side, or that the secret dead end room with 2 lockers will finally drop a potato like the rumors about it. He weights the possibility that skipping content means skipping potential mats, mods and experience. He is methodical, more aware and possibly prone to helping others more than the Rusher due to his broader vision of the picture.

 

These are 2 generalized perceptions of the sides at stake here, but there is one truth: both are players and they want to have fun. The way they have fun conflicts with each other, and this kind of behavior will always come up when you do a random group, for such is the nature of randomness. You are advised to look for like minded people to play with by befriending em and making your own games.

 

Asking for rushers to be penalized for the way they play the game is about as fair as asking the non rushers to be penalized for taking too long or the ship is gonna blow.

[smithf]

1. Rusher's are not the problem.

2. A Player who does not cooperate with the rest of the team is the problem.

3. Number (2) is not necessarily a Rusher.

 

And no. I am not a Rusher. I use a Rhino currently. I am just trying to put up a fair word.

[Rowr]

I always rush In Alerts I dont see the point in not doing so. Im the kind that hates "explorers" in alerts, wasting everyones time because all the maps are so similar anyway. Z_Z.. An easy way to solve this would just to be that everyone gets the rewards in the end even when the timer ends.

[Insanityman]

Im always concerned about some form of exploitation, but you seem to have most of the forseeable bases covered (until we get multiple accounts resource farming and resource trading, but that can be dealt with later if this is something the community really wants).

 

From an implementation perspective, we have grineer commanders with teleport, have this function like one of them, just it tosses you across the asteroid, works for both lore and function.  Only, because it is terminal activated it automatically sets off the alarm, and summons some other grineer to go with it (think automatic security protocols: an undesired activation results in automatic security investigation, pulling whoever is on patrol in the area).  This balances some of the "loki goes invisible, sneaks past everything, avoids all fights, summons allies to boss, melts boss and runs" by giving the players at least one mandatory fight (and a big brawl if they skipped a lot of the level).  Last remaining issue with my suggestion is how to balance who/what/where enemies get summoned just so you can't have a Saryn melt everything as soon as the teleport gives control back to the Tenno.  Make a specific teleport tile and have the enemies enter from security checkpoint rooms overlooking the main floor?  If the enemies have some advantage, at least it will give the players a bit of an uphill fight.  Removes most of the "you just got carried" stigma, adds some element of challenge (or reshapes the challenge into one big fight rather than a dozen one sided small ones), and might save a little time (it will for sure if any of the frames are overgeared for the arena).

 

How to apply to corpus maps? Jury of my brain is still out on that one. 

[2ply]

I always rush In Alerts I dont see the point in not doing so. Im the kind that hates "explorers" in alerts, wasting everyones time because all the maps are so similar anyway. Z_Z.. An easy way to solve this would just to be that everyone gets the rewards in the end even when the timer ends.

 

The solution you proposed may just promote people to go AFK at spawn and still recieve rewards.

 

Also you may want to consider that the loot found in ALERT missions including the rewards are some of the best loot in the game, Lockers, mob kills all of these things generally provide more resources and more credits and sometimes even better than average mod drops.

 

So explorers in Alert missions are simply taking advantage of the oppertunity to clean the map for what its worth, in many respects they can obtain twice the amount of drops than found in a standard  map of identical properties such as level range and mission type.

Edited April 29, 2013 by 2ply

[2ply]

Im always concerned about some form of exploitation, but you seem to have most of the forseeable bases covered (until we get multiple accounts resource farming and resource trading, but that can be dealt with later if this is something the community really wants).

 

From an implementation perspective, we have grineer commanders with teleport, have this function like one of them, just it tosses you across the asteroid, works for both lore and function.  Only, because it is terminal activated it automatically sets off the alarm, and summons some other grineer to go with it (think automatic security protocols: an undesired activation results in automatic security investigation, pulling whoever is on patrol in the area).  This balances some of the "loki goes invisible, sneaks past everything, avoids all fights, summons allies to boss, melts boss and runs" by giving the players at least one mandatory fight (and a big brawl if they skipped a lot of the level).  Last remaining issue with my suggestion is how to balance who/what/where enemies get summoned just so you can't have a Saryn melt everything as soon as the teleport gives control back to the Tenno.  Make a specific teleport tile and have the enemies enter from security checkpoint rooms overlooking the main floor?  If the enemies have some advantage, at least it will give the players a bit of an uphill fight.  Removes most of the "you just got carried" stigma, adds some element of challenge (or reshapes the challenge into one big fight rather than a dozen one sided small ones), and might save a little time (it will for sure if any of the frames are overgeared for the arena).

 

How to apply to corpus maps? Jury of my brain is still out on that one. 

 

I really like this addition to the OP, Having to actually pay for the convienience of the teleport with a fight that has to be completed after teh teleport is made...locking down extraction until the wave that spawned due to the teleport is all wiped out.

 

Perhaps have the number of enemies scale based off the distance the other team members had to be teleported, for instance if the group teleported from a 25 kilometer distance have 25 badguys spawn and decend onto the group...in larger scenarios wave of elite enemies could poor in...this would make a single person trying to multi-box 3 other accounts have a really hard time taking down the waves of enemies had he just teleported said alts from or near spawn 150 kilometers away =P

[Inez]

Also you may want to consider that the loot found in ALERT missions is the best look in the game, Lockers, mob kills all of these things generally provide more resources and more credits and better mod drops. So explorers in Alert missions are simply taking advantage of the oppertunity to clean the map for what its worth, in many respects they can obtain twice the amount of drops than found in a standard level map.

 

 

That's strange. I've done hundreds of alert missions, and for mine and they all drop the same mods, credits and mats as other missions.

[2ply]

That's strange. I've done hundreds of alert missions, and for mine and they all drop the same mods, credits and mats as other missions.

 

I've noticed a difference, after 250hours played I favor doing alert missions for the loot over a standard mission...map size can play a factor in loot quantities of course, but find an alert and a standard mission of the same mission type and of the same level and run a comparison if you do a full clear...count up all the drops you and all the group collect...but be sure to collect everything for the sake of the test and hit me back with some numbers!

[_PerfectSoldier_]

EMMM Sorry then why do we just run around the enemy ship if we can just teleport -.-

 

Dont like the idea........

[2ply]

EMMM Sorry then why do we just run around the enemy ship if we can just teleport -.-

 

Dont like the idea........

 

Thats fine,

 

But I can only assume you didn't actually read the entire post, perhaps the first paragraph where I said..team teleport and you stopped there and made a reply...as no where did I imply everyone should have the ability to just teleport around at will. Try reading the post again, take some time to digest what you've just read and perhaps then if you still do not like the idea offer a suggestion that could improve the topic situation.

 

Thanks for the reply either way.

[2ply]

1. Rusher's are not the problem.

2. A Player who does not cooperate with the rest of the team is the problem.

3. Number (2) is not necessarily a Rusher.

 

And no. I am not a Rusher. I use a Rhino currently. I am just trying to put up a fair word.

 

The question is what is your definition of "cooperation".

 

For agruements sake lets say 1 or 2 people decide THEY want to run directly to the end of a map and sit in spawn and start the count timer without regard for the other two possibly slower less geared in terms of speed modded players...Are the less geared players not cooperating with the two faster players who could care less about leveling weapons by getting kills...or collecting resources to build items and finding credits to fuse powers...

 

OR...is it the two faster rushers that are just not cooperating with the other two that decided to not stack so much or could not stack so much in terms of speed mods.. By cooperation I feel it sounds more like forced perspective..you must think like me...or else you will miss out on the mission bonus...oh you are too slow...too bad I win..OR the opposite is..stop rushing and think like me...we need loots..you guys are being jerks with your rushing!

 

This is all about how you wish to play, but in the game's current state it only takes 2 rushers to win this arguement.

 

If the team is evenly divided on objective it does not matter 2 may want to rush while 2 want to explore and loot/kill...the rushers have the advantage because they are given the option to start a clock that says...cooperate with my way or lose!

 

Perhaps 1 person decided to rush ahead...the other three are doing random things..one person is just goofing off trying to find hidden areas..one person is just trying to get all the kills..and the other player is just trying to open all the boxes...WHO is not cooperating in this situation? No one is obviously...but if no one is complaining than no one is trying to force his or her own decision on the others to force cooperation.

 

At the start of the match, it was decided and requested by two players that the team do some looting and get enough resources because players A and B need to build that thing they want so bad..but the other two players are like SCREW that you noobs...I just want this fat mission bonus...so WHO is not cooperating here? Its 50/50 but the rushers will win.

 

I see what you are saying, and I AGREE actually but I feel the terminology is off, rushers should be able to rush if they wish, you aren't forced to play with anyone for longer than 1 round if that.

 

BUT given the oppertunity to balance the speeds of the frames or add incentive for people to be courteous could go a long way in terms of group harmony, the main problem is cooperation or not we have a system that is off balance, RUSHERs have the upper hand in a 2v2 objective difference.

 

Why not just allow those two rushers to say..hey we are totally rushing this map and we don't care about your silly loots..but here take this teleport..get your mission rewards and then you can drop us like a bad habbit after the mission...THAT would be totally good way to bring some solution to the grievences that are currently circling the forums based on this obvious lack  of balance.

 

Personally I don't care, I have played enough to kill everything in my path, loot all lockers in my reach and still make it to extraction before a timer is either started or expired...but I just like to talk about the ideas of helping less fortunateTenno.

Edited April 29, 2013 by 2ply

[2ply]

Rusher: player who is objective minded, maybe tunnel vision is question. He wants something out of that stage, its completion, he doesn't cares about the side objectives. He can make the run faster, if people would follow his lead. Would rather do 2 or 3 runs in the time the Non Rusher does 1.

 

The Non Rusher: player who takes his time, probably thinks he may come across something useful if he kills those guys on the side, or that the secret dead end room with 2 lockers will finally drop a potato like the rumors about it. He weights the possibility that skipping content means skipping potential mats, mods and experience. He is methodical, more aware and possibly prone to helping others more than the Rusher due to his broader vision of the picture.

 

These are 2 generalized perceptions of the sides at stake here, but there is one truth: both are players and they want to have fun. The way they have fun conflicts with each other, and this kind of behavior will always come up when you do a random group, for such is the nature of randomness. You are advised to look for like minded people to play with by befriending em and making your own games.

 

Asking for rushers to be penalized for the way they play the game is about as fair as asking the non rushers to be penalized for taking too long or the ship is gonna blow.

 

Hey, Thanks for your suggestions for the official WARFRAME player made Definitions book of many picutres bro...

 

Anything you can add to the OP?

[Antiks]

No, there is still a major problem with this:

A****** Rushers who aren't courteous.

 

This would be a nice addition, such as if the team splits to handle an Extermination faster, but there's nothing that penalizes rushing or rewards exploration more or MOST IMPORTANTLY, nothing that will let people who want to fully explore continue exploring while still gaining full rewards. That's the main issue I have with Rushers-they cut the mission short when I want to play it fully.

I'm not a rusher and I can say I have just as big an issue with people who want to explore every hole in the wall... I mean if you want to fully experience the mission you could have hit the solo button or made a private group for that purpose. I want to clear a mission in a decent amount of time and move on to the next one. What is courteous is moving in the direction of the objective at a reasonable pace, this could mean after clearing the room. Turning 15 minute missions into 30 minutes missions is just as bad as turning them into 5 minute missions.

 

Edited April 30, 2013 by Antiks

[Thingofmyth]

SolluxCaptorTA, on 28 Apr 2013 - 7:11 PM, said:

No, there is still a major problem with this:

A****** Rushers who aren't courteous.

This would be a nice addition, such as if the team splits to handle an Extermination faster, but there's nothing that penalizes rushing or rewards exploration more or MOST IMPORTANTLY, nothing that will let people who want to fully explore continue exploring while still gaining full rewards. That's the main issue I have with Rushers-they cut the mission short when I want to play it fully.

I rush and when I make it to extraction I wait off of the pad till everyone gets there.

[Baigan]

Maybe the only fair way out of this would be individual extraction, so rushers gonna rush, explorers gonna explore and haters...

 

Maybe have escape pods in the end  interactable so individual extraction is an option? Or add a bonus credit to group escape (like, +250 credits for each people in the extraction point after the countdown?)? And penalty for leaving people behind? (around -500 credits for each person you didn't wait for?)

 

Dropping some ideas around :U

Edited April 30, 2013 by Baigan

[2ply]

Maybe the only fair way out of this would be individual extraction, so rushers gonna rush, explorers gonna explore and haters...

 

Maybe have escape pods in the end  interactable so individual extraction is an option? Or add a bonus credit to group escape? (And penalty for people left behind?)

 

Dropping some ideas around :U

 

I kind of like this idea, I would also like to add that perhaps we could just have a set time limit for certain maps, not all maps but those maps that could actually have a time limit to completion, running out of time before the objective is completed is a fail...running out of time after the objective is complete equate to a loss of mission bonus only.

 

So have individual escape pods..and a time limit on all maps so that you must move with a degree of haste but have the timer on these mission types to be resonable enough so that a mildly slow person could still clear all that the map has to offer.

 

Just to re-state...this timed mission idea is NOT going to work on ALL missions..but it can for a majority of them.

 

Mobil Defence missions are a great example of a mission that actually forces the team to take on a long term goal and see it through with plenty of oppertunity to loot cabinets and make tons of kills..these are my favorite types of misisons. Perhaps once the primary objective is complete LOTUS could say...you have 5 or 10 minutes until you must evacuate after such a misison type.

 

Perhaps all but endless defence missions could have a 5-10 minute timer start after the objective is complete...with the option of individual escape pods or an option to have the full team meet at extraction to end the timer on the mission prematurely and extract like we currently do.

Edited April 30, 2013 by 2ply

[2ply]

What is courteous is moving in the direction of the objective at a reasonable pace, this could mean after clearing the room. Turning 15 minute missions into 30 minutes missions is just as bad as turning them into 5 minute missions.

 

 

I agree with this train of thought, considering the fact that people did choose a public co-op game over a single player match is an important part to remember when thinking of how we define courtesy in terms of progression and team cooperation.

 

I am uncertain if the next assumtion I want to make is true but another thing you may want to consider is the scaling loot and enemy numbers. I've ran with groups where everyone is a naturally fast at everything they do, killing looting...full clears. I think it would be awesome if the community could have a trend in leveling up those stamina mods and sprint speed mods in an effort to produce the fasted most efficient full clears possible.

 

I'm not the guy who wants to go way out of the way to a dead end area of the map to check a locker but I have realized that the enemies in most missions are cake, and with the right warframe composition you can easly smash your way through any mission type in minutes if you go at it like the ship is on fire.

 

The trend of just running to the exit and leaving the mission untouched aside from the objective is not a good thing in my opinion, though to each his own I think it would be cool for a new trend to emerge where people are all suited for rusher type speed with the objective of killing everything and collecting everything...as it is enemies are too easy so what is left is the grind for resources and credits...to build things. With the recent changes in credit rewards many players have more credits than they can spend.

 

Currently grinding out those mobil defence and endless defence is the main point of interest anyways, alerts missions are the break from that in my daily experience as I have all points in the galaxy already completed and all warframes built..and mostly all the weapons in game built. So for me its defence variations and the occasional ALERT for a quick credit payout...I tend to find myself enjoying the alerts due to the change of pace...actually going around opening lockers is almost therapeutic for me lol..I know thats freaken insane.

 

Perhaps I need to look at a different game sometime....I have to remind myself to remember the new players to the game and those who have not purchased any platinum. These are the players who may need to run the standard locations and who also may need to attempt full clears for the sake of credits and resources with hopes to find a rare mod..I have over 1000 duplicate mods, and many duplicates of all the rare mods in the game so I personally have no need for anything in game.

 

I do however care for the player base, I have invested into this project and would like to ensure that people are not left feeling turned off by a community of tunnel vision, I rather enjoyed the early days and exploring a map to its fullest was a big part of that early experience and what has enabled me to build my collection to its current state. Here is me waiting for more content!

Edited April 30, 2013 by 2ply