Proposed Solution To Rushers, Slow Warframes, Lost Tenno!

[2ply]

Hello Tenno,

 

[ NOTE: this post and it potential solutions have evolved, though my suggetion down beloew stands, please read the post completely before you comment if you wish to comment and track the progression of the solutions in the thread ]

 

Today I would like to suggest a solution to the rusher problem and explain how rushers or faster warframes can help slower warframes, also how to save lost Tenno who are having issues finding their way out of a map.

 

There may be holes in this suggestion and that is why I'm here on the forums to present it to you so that you may help to build on the proposal until we have an air tight remedy that the developers may consider for implimentation.

 

The idea borrows from other MMO's but would need to be tailored to fit Warframe and be acceptible to its universe.

 

First let me just say it involves a kind of team teleportation feature. This feature could be implimented on various stages of a map.

 

The idea so far is to have a team teleportation station placed on the map, this would ideally be placed in the extraction zone so that faster warframes or those who are familure with the map or lucky enough to find their way to the exit sooner may have the option to initiate a team teleport request to the other players still making their way to extraction. This idea may also be helpful at or near a boss encounter on those rather long and complicated map selections.

 

The mechanic behind this would require 2 players to activate, much like a two person door lock override where 2 players must walk up to a seperate panel and press the X key to open the door.

 

The teleporation will act in the same way and once completed the other 2 players who are in the map somewhere will be given a prompt on screen asking them if they would like to accept or deny the team teleport offer. 

 

There has been some specculation that this idea may promote players to be lazy and not worry about making their way to extraction, while this might happen there will always be those who wish to end the level so they can move on and get their mission bonus much like the rushers do now.

 

The team teleport feature is not mandatory to activate, those two players who make it to extraction or to a boss fight are not forced to initate the team teleport and a timer or count down at extraction will still occur just as it does now once 2 players are in the extraction zone so the team can have the option to extend the coutesy of teleportation, those players who may be just deliberately lazy might get left behind as usual.

 

The option is one of courtesy, the rushers if willing to give the other players a helping hand to the end of the map can choose to activate the team teleport, the players who are still out in the map also have the option to accept or deny the offer. In many cases the players out in the map just want to loot more boxes or get a few more kills to finish a challenge and in that case they might want to refuse the offer. 

 

Limited range may be a good idea to be placed on the the teleport, so that it would be impossible to teleport players from all points but rather from a set distance from the extraction, perhaps half the map or a set radial distance from the extraction zone.

 

Also when considering the idea, many players felt as though this would lead to exploitation. In one case someone in the Council suggested that individuals will run multiple accounts at the same time and just teleport their alt accounts around a map to earn more things.

 

I would like to address that concern now, there is no harm in an individual attempting to run multiple accounts at the same time, experience points are gained from a radial distance from the kills that are made, so having a team of 4 where 1 person is doing all the killing on a map only to have the whole team teleported to the end of the map would be pointless in terms of XP gain, unless that individual wanted to move all the warframes around the map together, and in that case again...there is nothing wrong with doing that. Resouce gain, mod gain any type of gain you can achieve from running 3 alternate accounts is fair game if you want to multitask yourself there are no rules against that.

 

As far as "power leveling" this game is strickly PVE...there is nothing wrong with that. If anything, a player who decided to attempt running multiple warframes will likely want to upgrade the frames and the weapons that go on the frames and this only increases the chances of a sale on the market place, and DE would have nothing wrong with that.

 

There really is no negative to this potential solution, if anything it will help to settle those frustated players and give rushers a new badge of honor for their courtesy, though it is simply an idea to prevent players from being held back due to the speed of other players in a public match or a clan match where clan members may not have the ability to keep up with a more advanced pair of Warframes in terms of speed.

 

To "nerf" faster frames to bring a happy medium to the game is a bad thing. To put up more road blocks to slow players down is also a bad idea, and to cut earnings from players for not being able to keep up is also a bad thing. This solution is an act of coutesy and is completely optional for both sides of the equation and it will promote team play in public matches without fear of being left behind or being held up.

 

 

Just a note, there can be a distance limiter on the teleport, I think I might have mentioned this, but to prevent teleportation or "summoning" from reaching all the way back to the spawn room. Perhaps a radial distance around the extraction point.

Edited April 29, 2013 by 2ply

[SolluxCaptorTA]

No, there is still a major problem with this:

A****** Rushers who aren't courteous.

 

This would be a nice addition, such as if the team splits to handle an Extermination faster, but there's nothing that penalizes rushing or rewards exploration more or MOST IMPORTANTLY, nothing that will let people who want to fully explore continue exploring while still gaining full rewards. That's the main issue I have with Rushers-they cut the mission short when I want to play it fully.

[Grabehn]

I like the idea even thou I can see it being more abused than anything else. But my main gripe with it is that you're pretty much counting on people, which can be an instant "no" taking in consideration that it relies on people that aren't doing that exact same thing to begin with. 

 

While I do rush some times (alerts mainly) I never start the timer, or even more so, I pick a datamass in order to stop another rusher from starting it, that way everyone can get to the extraction point.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Grabehn

[2ply]

No, there is still a major problem with this:

A****** Rushers who aren't courteous.

 

This would be a nice addition, such as if the team splits to handle an Extermination faster, but there's nothing that penalizes rushing or rewards exploration more or MOST IMPORTANTLY, nothing that will let people who want to fully explore continue exploring while still gaining full rewards. That's the main issue I have with Rushers-they cut the mission short when I want to play it fully.

 

I understand your feelings on this, though the game would have more problems if it did penalize rushers. The system in place now works but some maps are rather large and people can get mixed up. This personally I feel that even though you got the mission cut short by a rusher its off to a new mission and the rewards keep coming no matter if its on this mission or the next. Is there anything that you can add or perhaps change in the idea to make it more feesible?

[2ply]

I like the idea even thou I can see it being more abused than anything else. But my main gripe with it is that you're pretty much counting on people, which can be an instant "no" taking in consideration that it relies on people that aren't doing that exact same thing to begin with. 

 

While I do rush some times (alerts mainly) I never start the timer, or even more so, I pick a datamass in order to stop another rusher from starting it, that way everyone can get to the extraction point.

 

You sir are a considerate person, and that is exactly the kind of person this idea is targeting...someone who will wait and not start the timer. Let me ask you this...if you had the option to give the other players a chance to teleport to you if you are at the extraction...in case they are lost or they may just be really slow like a Rhino...would you hit the button and say "hey guys here is a little helping hand if you want it"? 

 

I think you would, and I think many other people would too, its not like by pressing the button you END the mission..and perhaps you can press the button more than once in case they say...just give me a minute I need one more kill...then you could be the considerate person you are already but on the same token you could help yourself by getting those people to extraction sooner so you can move on to another mission =) 

 

Hey...Perhaps this idea needs a reward system like any other terminal perhaps 50 affinity or something. I do think though by adding a rewards feature it could be abused..but hey..they game gives you plenty of windows to break in order to get 50 affinity already I really can't see someone just using this as a gimmick to get 50 afffinity over and over.

[stacey69]

Couldnt read it all my eyes hurt when i get critted by text but is this some kind of beem me up scotty thing so we can all meet at the end? if it is then i dont think it will happen cos they added more mobs and mobs that come behind for a reason. they are trying to fix it and improve the gameplay at the same time.

 

If im nowhere near what this is about im sorry. just couldnt read it all, my eyes hurt ¬_¬

[2ply]

Couldnt read it all my eyes hurt when i get critted by text but is this some kind of beem me up scotty thing so we can all meet at the end? if it is then i dont think it will happen cos they added more mobs and mobs that come behind for a reason. they are trying to fix it and improve the gameplay at the same time.

 

If im nowhere near what this is about im sorry. just couldnt read it all, my eyes hurt ¬_¬

 

Well the beam me up scotty thing wasn't the idea exactly...I'm sure it can be done in a warframe style..considering we are on space ships most the time and have all kinds of weird technology around. If anything it could be a LOTUS power...sorry for the wall of text though, some ideas just can't be expressed in a paragraph without serious flamification afterwards.

[--SD--]

I actually like the idea and it provide a sense of balance.

 

What are the negatives or cons against this idea? Still waiting to read those for consideration.

[2ply]

I actually like the idea and it provide a sense of balance.

 

What are the negatives or cons against this idea? Still waiting to read those for consideration.

Same here, I can't really see a negative or con, the only concern may be exploitation but I think there could be many ways to prevent that sort of thing such as have the limited range of the teleport so players can't be at spawn or near it to recieve a port...and players cant stand around IDLE in a spawn point because enemies do come in there once alerted.

 

Thanks for the approval!

[CaptFaceFister]

this idea is cool just like you.

Edited April 29, 2013 by CaptFaceFister

[2ply]

this idea is cool just like you.

 

I don't usually play Frost..but when I do...I play as cool as I can.

[linthimar]

THIS WOULD BE VERY NICE!!!!!

 

I like to play RHINO, and some of these new maps are just SOOO huge...I like the maps but when you get into a group of LOKI's with SPEED mods on...my poor rhino just can't keep up...

 

 

It would be nice to have the option of a teleport or summons to the extraction point if I get lost or left behind.

 

DE...Please consider this!

 

 

 

[2ply]

THIS WOULD BE VERY NICE!!!!!

 

I like to play RHINO, and some of these new maps are just SOOO huge...I like the maps but when you get into a group of LOKI's with SPEED mods on...my poor rhino just can't keep up...

 

 

It would be nice to have the option of a teleport or summons to the extraction point if I get lost or left behind.

 

DE...Please consider this!

Thanks, I appreciate your reply.

 

I liked my Rhino too, and yes it is kinda sad when you have to lag behind and miss out on those bonuses because you are in a public group who doesn't wait for you. But perhaps given them a chance to be cool and teleport you to the extraction would allow for more friendly thoughtful gameplay!

[Story4]

Why not do something very simple, remove the stamina bar. That way faster warframes can still rush ahead and kill everything, but slow warframes don't need to constantly stop to have their stamina bar recharged and as such can catch up to the other warframes. This also keep the advantage of faster warframes in combat and is easy to implement.

[2ply]

Why not do something very simple, remove the stamina bar. That way faster warframes can still rush ahead and kill everything, but slow warframes don't need to constantly stop to have their stamina bar recharged and as such can catch up to the other warframes. This also keep the advantage of faster warframes in combat and is easy to implement.

 

What about like..you know all the other things a stamina bar is used for, like blocking, wall climbing and stuff?

[Story4]

What about like..you know all the other things a stamina bar is used for, like blocking, wall climbing and stuff?

 

Other than Blocking, is there really any other use for stamina? You can wallrun indefinitely anyway and i don't see any other "stuff". And i never use blocking anyway...

[2ply]

Other than Blocking, is there really any other use for stamina? You can wallrun indefinitely anyway and i don't see any other "stuff". And i never use blocking anyway...

Actually running up walls vertically uses stamina, attacking with your melee uses stamina, slide attacks use stamina a good deal of things do. I can see blocking taking your shields instead of stamina. 

 

I actually like the stamina bar removal idea, a general BUFF to sprint for all warframes on a base level would need to be done. And sprint speed mods could still be in effect. But yeah not having to stop to recharge would promote a constant flow of traffic even for the slower frames.

 

But  I want to sayremoving the stamina bar wouldn't change anything at all. Given that rushers typically stack stamina, stamina rechard and sprint speed, where a slower warframes and those not interested in rushing do not stack those mods as much or cannot afford to for reasons that other mods need those points for things like tanking and damage...the need to pause to regain stamina is done for both slow and fast frames and rushers.

 

S to remove Stamina entirely for all frames would leave them equally the same in my opinion just without the need to stop, so slower warframes are still going to be left in the dust while rushers get to the extraction point long before them.

 

I do think its a great idea though, but there would be a ton of balance needed to actually make it change the state of things now, I really believe it would just work out in the end to have changed nothing in terms of the rushing problems and the overhaul that would be needed to reconfigure how all the weapons work without stamina, the blocking and veritcal run would probably just break the game some how or be too much of a hassle for the DEV team to consider doing.

 

Please dont think that I want to burn your suggestion down intentionally but after a good deal of thought I feel it wouldn't really change things as they are now.

Edited April 29, 2013 by 2ply

[Story4]

Well thing is that rushers regenerate stamina quickly anyway, as opposed to Rhino. I haven't played him for 2 weeks and when i finally did he just seemed so slow compared to what i was getting used to. Also rushers usually rush towards the next enemy, so they are going to stop eventually. If this was just a race without enemies then i would agree, but enemies are currently a "stopping point" for rushers. If there was no stamina then rushers would still stop to fight the enemies, but slower warframes like Rhino would have time to catch up to them and actually kill something instead of arriving too late and have nothing to shoot at. It is a pretty big problem, especially since after i sprint i usually use Rhino Charge to have more speed until my stamina recharges. Maybe add more doors that require players to open then also.

 

Also melee attacks, wallrun, slide attacks all consume stamina, but i have never felt the need to stop and recharge with any of my fast warframes like Loki and with Rhino i only ever stopped a little to recharge my stamina bar when i was wall-running, other than that i never had a problem. Actually if they want to keep the stamina bar I think it would be a better idea to make melee more damaging but consume more stamina, but this is a discussion for another time.

 

I don't think that you want to burn my suggestion, we are just having a discussion.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Story4

[KageNoShini]

I'd say give a different level of stamina to different frames, heavy frames have higher amounts of stamina so they can stomp through areas for longer periods of time, while lighter frames have less, but are able to have a burst of speed when needed to get out of sticky situations, that way faster frames can still move fast but stop more often than slower frames, which will have a more consistent speed, with fewer stops.

[2ply]

@ Story4,

 

Good points man, not having stamina to worry about might make stopping to fight more appealing to rushers and like you said that pause would enable slower frames to catch up. To be honest rushers aren't really a major problem for me nor are the slower frames as I tend to be patient and take the time to loot stuff when I run, though I still manage to get things done quickly.

 

I felt as though for the forward progression of th game and the amount of complaints that come from the community in this regard a nice solution would be a team rally or teleport feature would be rather nice, and as most map designers can tell you there is fairly simple ways to implicate this type of feature in the code. Though the work to get things together fro deployment and then fit that concept into the gameplay with a proper feel and appearence are where it could get time consuming.

 

Having more obstacles such as dual panel doors would probably make all the difference, though it could get kind of annoying to have to constantly be snagged on these things half a dozen times in a map.

 

After having starting this discussion I can really undestand where the developers are at tough point when it comes to a universally acceptible and viable solution. Though nothing they can do will ever please everyone. I have faith they will figure this out soon enough.

[2ply]

I'd say give a different level of stamina to different frames, heavy frames have higher amounts of stamina so they can stomp through areas for longer periods of time, while lighter frames have less, but are able to have a burst of speed when needed to get out of sticky situations, that way faster frames can still move fast but stop more often than slower frames, which will have a more consistent speed, with fewer stops.

 

Thats a good addition to the post. I like it and it would eliminate the need to reinvent the wheeel entirely by getting rid of stamina completely. There is no actual number value that I know of on stamina amounts like we have with health and shields...this is a great post!

[Story4]

@2ply

Well there are some maps that barely have 1 door where 2 players need to open it, a lot of them have none. If they made 2 or 3 doors the standard i think it would be better.

 

Also i meant that rushers have to stop to fight the enemy, because enemies are supposed to be dangerous, not go past them. Having no stamina i don't think that it will make rushers stop to make the fight more appealing, i mostly see people who go ahead fighting enemies anyway, if sprint was without stamina they would still fight as they do now but slower frames will have time to catch up. Well maybe I'm just not a rusher, because i usually don't avoid enemies.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Story4

[Story4]

Ok, i just tried the capture mission on earth with loki, always only invisible when i see an enemy. I got to the capture target without setting off any alarms and after someone saw me, i went invisible and rushed to the exit. Finished the mission in a little over 1 minute.

 

EDIT: this is silly, just finished hydra in 2 minutes with Loki.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Story4

[2ply]

@2ply

Well there are some maps that barely have 1 door where 2 players need to open it, a lot of them have none. If they made 2 or 3 doors the standard i think it would be better.

 

Also i meant that rushers have to stop to fight the enemy, because enemies are supposed to be dangerous, not go past them. Having no stamina i don't think that it will make rushers stop to make the fight more appealing, i mostly see people who go ahead fighting enemies anyway, if sprint was without stamina they would still fight as they do now but slower frames will have time to catch up. Well maybe I'm just not a rusher, because i usually don't avoid enemies.I

 

Yeah I dont avoid a fight either, I have way too many weapons that need to be level 30 and the enemies practically just die when I point my weapons at them.

 

KageNoShini made an excellent post that kind of takes your idea and improved on it, by changing the stamina amounts for warframes. Giving less stamina to naturally faster warframes and more to slower frames, perhaps I would go as far to say have the stamina enhancement cards have a pro/con feature such as more sprint speed = less max stamina, and stamina regen = lower sprint speed.

 

With a rebalancing of the stamina pools of the Warframes and these mod adjustment ideas it might just do the trick, toss in a few extra double panel doors and we might have ourself a happy day. 

 

I also think that instead of just SHARED xp for groups being in close proximity have a XP buff when groups are together when fighting..say the closer the group is the higher the XP on a % basis such as 2% for max range apart up to 5% more XP at max close distance with the 5% XP bonus only being effective if the full group is together such as  all 4 players or all 3.what ever number is in the group. This could also apply to credit rewards..the closer you are to the team, the closer the team is together the higher the shared credits are from a pickup.

 

I've heard a complaint on a simiar idea before where someone said that it would be horrible to reward that sort of thing because players would then feel forced to stick together. While I can understand this frustration I also want to point out that max close range doesn't need to be super close, the distance could be determined by the Dev Staff and tweeked on a trial and error basis depending on the results.

 

Tiis 2-5% extra XP and Credits would IN TURN promote team play which is what this game is about.

 

Another possible solution would be to take a 5% CUT to all items obtained outside of mods and blueprints to all party members who do not all extract together at the same time this includes rushers and the "stallers"...while this is a negative appraoch a flip side to this could be a "team work" bonus that is rewarded and applied at the end of a mission to give players an extra 5% on all pickup items at the end for a team that sticks together and extracts together as a group...and yes this would apply to credits, XP and resources gained througout the mission.

 

Just some more ideas!!

Edited April 29, 2013 by 2ply

[gamefreak9149]

I know i am one of the few who use switch teleport like this to help but I often switch teleport a rhino or slower frame (some sayrns) after I rush into a crowd of npcs. I try to at least sometimes i end up switching with a npc or my decoy because its kinda crazy. Ive seen some saryns just melt huge amount of mobs with that last skill of hers when i port her to my location. Im leveling one up now just because that skill to be honest.

 

As for my loki, he was my first frame and I know switch teleport is used by alot of trolls but I have found many ways to use it besides just to troll. I even have my Rush mod almost maxed ranked so I move faster on him so I can get around quicker. They need a way so I could pick a target and not need a line of sight so the teleport could be more reliable. I know this would lead to more trolling but I would gladly sacrifice my kills in a match if I could mean I would have a better and more reliable way teleport the slower frames to my spot.

Edited April 29, 2013 by gamefreak9149