Soma Prime

[DSpite]

DO people understand yet that when you add just ONE point of damage to a lot of guns , then Forma them 6 times and mods them, the ONE point difference becomes 1000 or even 2000+ DPS? God forbid you up crit or status as well.

 

Someone told me the diff between Soma and Soma P fully modded was like an extra 5000 DPS. For TWO points base damage difference.

 

This is me just clicking stuff:

 

http://warframe-builder.com/Primary_Weapons/Builder/Soma/t_30_23230220_137-0-10-133-1-5-134-2-5-141-3-5-140-4-5-150-5-10-132-6-5-159-7-5_137-7-133-6-134-6-141-6-140-9-150-8-132-8-159-9

 

http://warframe-builder.com/Primary_Weapons/Builder/Soma_prime/t_30_22232300_150-0-10-132-1-5-137-2-10-133-3-5-134-4-5-141-5-5-140-6-5-159-7-5_150-8-132-8-137-7-133-6-134-6-141-6-140-9-159-9

 

That has a 4.7K Burst diff, and a 6.9K Sustained difference, yea yea, "theoretical numbers".

 

I think it's quite enough damn difference for "TWO point base damage ONLY", and a magazine boost.
 

EDIT:

 

In case you are "Warframe challenged": if you have a gun that does 1 (ONE) base damage with massive fire rate and super high crit and status chance, you might end up with a gun that does 25K damage fully modded.

 

If you then "just add ONE point" (AND MAKE IT DO TWO) it will suddenly do 50K damage.

 

Your ability to "math" has nothing to do with it. Your inability to do Warframe math seems to be the problem here

Edited December 26, 2014 by DSpite

[RealPandemonium]

Having no spinup time is probably the biggest buff of all.  It allows you to switch from sniping to full auto seamlessly.  

Edited December 26, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[AsuraKyu]

The main problem with this oh so OP 20% buff which is actually 2 damage. SOMA DOESN'T HAVE 100% CRIT. That means if using maxed Point Strike 25% of the time you're supposed god-like OMFG 20% BUFF is actually 2 damage more scaled with what ever mods you also have equipped, yet minus the entire selling point of the gun. The crit. Screw the 20% buff, having a guaranteed 6.6x or 8.4x multiplier to my 10 damage compared to my supposedly unheard of buff to 12 is the greatest buff in history. Give Soma Red crits and take back your 20% buff if that's your whole arguement here.

 

 

Meanwhile, Boltor prime is literally the same as dual wielding boltor's with some added damage. Logic.

[ProfessorZero]

Every post i see all the people who are saying the Somap is fine mention the 20% damage increase (which is appreciated and not negligible) and the faster spool up time. Here's the problem tho, the Soma used to have higher crit chance then it currently does, and when they nerf'd it everybody whined (as we do) but people understood that the Somap would probably be on par for the prenerf Soma. People saying it should 100% crit, that would be nice, but hell I would take just an increase to 35% base crit chance, which would put us up to around 87.5% crit chance. But no, what we got was instantaneous spool up (which honestly seems to me like an oversight that then they were like "ah, why not keep it? its the Somap after all") and 20% damage buff.

With our 75% chance of crit 50 bullets out our mag of 200 will not crit. That means instead of the 1000's we are getting like 90 or 100 damage. You can and WILL get a clip where for 10 straight rounds nothing crits. Eww. As it stands the only reason to take a Somap over a Boltor prime is that its hitscan instead of projectile, and other weapons can fill the void. What is sad about this is that with every primed primary (say that 10x fast) there was a significant increase in power. Paris? Parisp blows it out of the water. Boltor? obvsly. Boar? In literally every aspect (even pellet count!). Braton? sure it was lackluster before but now look at it. Latron? 30 extra damage, all of it puncture+status+critchance/damge. Heck even the secondaries take a page from the heavy buff book. the Somap comes at the bottom of a long line of heavily buffed weapons, and honestly they kinda goofed a little. They could have given us just a refocus into puncture damage, kept the total damage the same, but given us the ability to crit moreoften and people would have been drooling all over the counter. Its not that the Somap is bad, its a good weapon, its just that its so underwhelming that it doesn't even really unseat any other weapon, just slides right in over the soma in power.


(to give some context, people used to joke about the Somap being able to kill things just by reloading, or that even pointing the weapon in enemies direction was enough to kill it. This? I would take my Dread or Parisp into the void over this.)

[ProfessorZero]

If you then "just add ONE point" (AND MAKE IT DO TWO) it will suddenly do 50K damage.

 

Your ability to "math" has nothing to do with it. Your inability to do Warframe math seems to be the problem here

Lets talk about Warframe Math for a second here. now I have a bad track record with it, but when we are talking DPS technically just plying on firerate mods would also increase the DPS. It would just make the weapon staggeringly bad in terms of ammo economy. So DPS isnt the best indicator of whether or not the weapon is good, at least not on its own anyways.

but now lets account for the fact that the Somap isnt doing max damage every shot. ie: sometimes both crit, sometimes 1 crits, and sometime neither crit. This reduces that 50K damage you mention down to about 38K with the Somap's crit chance. Wow so we've lost 12K damage. Thats a heavy gunner. Now we've got to deal with the fact that the Somap doesnt always fire 2 bullets at once, so now we go down to 36K damage. We've lost 14K damage, or 28% of the potential damage via DPS, thats a big difference. So lets chill on "warframe math".

No one is arguing that the Somap is worse then the Soma, thats dumb. I also don't want the Boltorp to be unseated in terms of raw damage. (i mean headshots and crits notwithstanding, those things act weird with eachother). If the somap and the boltorp had debates swirling right now over which is better, and the arguments basically ran down to hitscan/projectile, accuracy/firerate, then the Somap would fulfill its place. But it isn't doing that, its just another weapon that can consistently be shown to not be quite as good.

[RealPandemonium]

But it isn't doing that, its just another weapon that can consistently be shown to not be quite as good.

Until you get headshots, in which case even regular Soma is better.

[Azawarau]

Lets talk about Warframe Math for a second here. now I have a bad track record with it, but when we are talking DPS technically just plying on firerate mods would also increase the DPS. It would just make the weapon staggeringly bad in terms of ammo economy. So DPS isnt the best indicator of whether or not the weapon is good, at least not on its own anyways.

but now lets account for the fact that the Somap isnt doing max damage every shot. ie: sometimes both crit, sometimes 1 crits, and sometime neither crit. This reduces that 50K damage you mention down to about 38K with the Somap's crit chance. Wow so we've lost 12K damage. Thats a heavy gunner. Now we've got to deal with the fact that the Somap doesnt always fire 2 bullets at once, so now we go down to 36K damage. We've lost 14K damage, or 28% of the potential damage via DPS, thats a big difference. So lets chill on "warframe math".

No one is arguing that the Somap is worse then the Soma, thats dumb. I also don't want the Boltorp to be unseated in terms of raw damage. (i mean headshots and crits notwithstanding, those things act weird with eachother). If the somap and the boltorp had debates swirling right now over which is better, and the arguments basically ran down to hitscan/projectile, accuracy/firerate, then the Somap would fulfill its place. But it isn't doing that, its just another weapon that can consistently be shown to not be quite as good.

Thats how damage averages work

 

Apply it to the regular soma and its that much farther behind

[XxMAGGOTxX]

Well then. Wasn't sure that others were gonna agree with me here. Apparently all everyone likes to do on the forum is be opposed to any thread they come across xD Thanks guys. But yes, red crits sure would be nice. And I would much rather take crit damage multiplier over flat base damage. 

[RealPandemonium]

Well then. Wasn't sure that others were gonna agree with me here. Apparently all everyone likes to do on the forum is be opposed to any thread they come across xD Thanks guys. But yes, red crits sure would be nice. And I would much rather take crit damage multiplier over flat base damage. 

So you want it do do the same damage, but with red crits?  Are you asking for a buff, or for red crits?

[SilverHazzes]

Just wait if crit damage mods get primed and will see how far the Somas can get. I am currently farming for the prime and having a lack of status chance I would consider better a 35% damage increase but who knows.

[ThePredicament]

In terms of performance, what the Soma P provides does not change the way people SHOULD be playing with it. It never needed the lower spool time, larger mag, and higher reserve count, because it isn't a spray and pray LMG, it's an assault rifle. When fully built, players are most likely to just burst fire rather than trigger squeeze and those three aspects don't affect that type of gameplay. At the point of actually NEEDING to spray, a more consistent crit stream would be a lot more useful and before then it would NOT CHANGE ANYTHING, stuff will get killed about the same time regardless.

 

40% crit chance wouldn't do much for "lol red crits OP" since a maxed Point Strike/Crit Delay would only bring it to about a 20% chance for red crits at the cost of substantial fire rate and utility/damage slot. Give the twenty percent increase, give the consistent crit to get rid of damage sag, and that nice coat of paint and that's it; a real SOMA PRIME.

 

I like DiPS as much as everybody else (Min/Maxers) but in real world practicality the upgrade was bunk. Unlike most of the other Primed weapons that have fully built counterparts (Forma/potato) there really isn't much need to actually want to go from built vanilla to the primed version.

[XxMAGGOTxX]

So you want it do do the same damage, but with red crits?  Are you asking for a buff, or for red crits?

Aren't red crits a buff in and of themselves? 

[DSpite]

Lets talk about Warframe Math for a second here. now I have a bad track record with it, but when we are talking DPS technically just plying on firerate mods would also increase the DPS. It would just make the weapon staggeringly bad in terms of ammo economy. So DPS isnt the best indicator of whether or not the weapon is good, at least not on its own anyways.

but now lets account for the fact that the Somap isnt doing max damage every shot. ie: sometimes both crit, sometimes 1 crits, and sometime neither crit. This reduces that 50K damage you mention down to about 38K with the Somap's crit chance. Wow so we've lost 12K damage. Thats a heavy gunner. Now we've got to deal with the fact that the Somap doesnt always fire 2 bullets at once, so now we go down to 36K damage. We've lost 14K damage, or 28% of the potential damage via DPS, thats a big difference. So lets chill on "warframe math".

No one is arguing that the Somap is worse then the Soma, thats dumb. I also don't want the Boltorp to be unseated in terms of raw damage. (i mean headshots and crits notwithstanding, those things act weird with eachother). If the somap and the boltorp had debates swirling right now over which is better, and the arguments basically ran down to hitscan/projectile, accuracy/firerate, then the Somap would fulfill its place. But it isn't doing that, its just another weapon that can consistently be shown to not be quite as good.

 

What?

 

The Soma Prime will do 20% more damage then the Some P under EVERY situation.

THE Soma P has a higher sustained damage on TOP OF that because larger magazine.

 

In my quick builds above:

 

The DPS of a Soma will go around 23K burst, and 14 sustained.

The DPS of the Soma P will go to 28K (extra 5K) burst and 21K (extra 7K) sustained, mostly because larger mag so less reloads.

 

Does really your Boltor P do 28K DPS? Hitscan?

 

Also, been told faster spool up time so it no longer feels slow at the start.

 

So basically all everyone is whinging about is "yes, it's higher damage, it's just not ENOUGH higher damage"

 

 

You know what? Deal with it. You all complain about OP stuff, and then complain when something new is not OP enough.

 

We should not have missions or guns that require us to put out 20K DPS in the first place, and if you look at the Solar map, you never do. This is another whinge thread about "farming T4", which is NOT balanced around, so who cares.

 

If you can't manage to play the game with 20K DPS guns, then just ask DE to give you all a button that just finishes missions for you, since playing the game does not seem to be what you want, but instead want to have your personal existence justified because you trivially managed to jam 6 Forma in a gun.

 

 

Either we have to do something more to do then press the trigger and 4 or we just have Tetris. Make up your damn minds in what direction you want Warframe to go.

 

The Soma Prime is balanced upgrade to the Soma. Stop. Complaining.

Edited December 27, 2014 by DSpite

[Azawarau]

So you want it do do the same damage, but with red crits?  Are you asking for a buff, or for red crits?

 

 

Aren't red crits a buff in and of themselves? 

The issue is there will likely be a release of a new crit mod that pushes the soma to or over 100

 

And when that happens the DPS will fly

 

For now its better to avoid stepping over the line if for nothing else than to keep it reasonable for as long as it may last

[RealPandemonium]

Aren't red crits a buff in and of themselves? 

I was just making it clear that you want a buff to an already overpowered weapon.  My question was "would you be ok with red crits if they lowered the base damage such that the average dps was the the same as it is now."

[DSpite]

If I not mistaken, the Soma Prime can now do almost the same paper DPS as Boltor P?

 

Are people saying that's not enough now?

[Renegade343]

If I not mistaken, the Soma Prime can now do almost the same paper DPS as Boltor P?

 

Are people saying that's not enough now?

Probably because Soma Prime is more difficult to obtain (at least to some players). 

 

Anyways, you forgot one point: Hitscan and better accuracy. That means the Soma Prime can be more closer to its theoretical DPS than the Boltor Prime (which is another plus).